Home / Blogs / Craig Townsend's blog / Track Plan Critique
Track Plan Critique
Tue, 2018-05-22 18:23 — Craig Townsend
I need some honest, but constructive critiques of a large scale, outdoor layout. I will post more info in the following post about era, location, prototype, etc.
This track plan is based on the amount of available space at our current house. If we end up staying, we will be adding an addition(as noted on the drawing). Should we move, I would use this same plan, and locate on the property a 80' tangent.
What potential problems am I missing?
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Background Details
Era:
Regardless of the plan, this is what I will be modeling. In 1970, the Burlington Northern was created, leaving a nice collection of GN, NP and SP&S equipment on the system in the early 1970's. By the mid 70's BN had repainted most of it's fleet into Cascade Green. I've always like the NP, GN and BN, so early 1970 seemed like a good fit. Also, the depot in Redmond was torn down in 1972, shut down in 1971. In 1970, in theory it should have been an occupied depot.
Location: Eastside of Seattle, WA
The area I want to model is a former NP branchline, constructed by the Seattle, Lake shore and Eastern Railway. Although I would love to model the whole branch I've come to the conclusion that realistically at this point in my life it's not going to happen. The two towns I want to model are Redmond, and Issaquah Washington. Sadly neither of these communities have rail service.
A 6 day a week local (on the other parts of the subdivision) would service Redmond and Issaquah every other day. Trains would first approach Redmond, complete the switching required, leave all outbounds at Redmond, go down the line to Issaquah, switch Issaquah and then turn back to Redmond.
Here's some details about the two locations. Redmond was an interesting track layout with the 'main' and a siding (making a lap siding). In Redmond the following industries were located; Feed Mill, Team Track, Lumber Yard, and possibly a plumbing supply yard. Just to the west of Redmond was two more industries; Lumberyard and a cold storage facility.
Feed Mill: I've been really interested in this Feed Mill my entire life ( I grew up in Redmond), and have spent many years researching this one building. It will be the major focal point on the layout, and will be modeled full size. T&D Feeds received inbound grain and made feed for the local farmers, and shipped out by truck. They typically got 1-3 cars each time the local came to town.
Lumber Yard #1 Still in the early stages of research, but it looks like flats were spotted on the siding and unloaded directly into the lumber yard
West of Redmond sharing the same spur
Lumber Yard #2 Again still in the early stages of research, but this facility typically got boxcars, along with flats. They are a building supply company more than a lumber yard.
Cold Storage. Again still in the early stages of research, but a few people have suggested that this place received frozen fish/seafood and it was trucked out.
Plat Map for part of Redmond from the NP days
Issaquah only had one industry in the era I'm modeling; Darigold. Darigold shipped out butter and cheese. Issaquah makes for an interesting town to work because the Darigold plant spot was located on the 'main'. Inbound locals (Eastward) would shove the loads about 1/2 mile to downtown Issaquah, where there was a short 6 car runaround, and a short spur track (2-3 cars). From what I've been able to learn, the local would shove the spots onto the depot spur, runaround the train, and switch the train out, before running WB back to Darigold. At Darigold, there was a WB trailing point spur that head 2 cars. Sometimes the local would use this short spur to do the switching moves.
Issaquah Plat Map
BN 8th Sub Blog
Sat. Views of Area
Darigold Issaquah. No longer rail served, but the rail is still there.
Redmond Sat. View. Nothing remains of the railroad in Redmond, but I'm pretty familiar with the layout as I have some pictures before it was torn out along with the plat maps.
Lumber and Cold Storage outside of Redmond. Again all rails removed, but evidence of rails exist.
Overview of the Branchline in relation to Seattle
BN 8th Sub Blog
Sexy Curves
Looks like a solid plan to me! Can you describe what vegetation you are looking at utilizing? Low maintenance is the way to go...
I would also break it into stages for completion as well as for time, energy, and budget. Redoing your yard is no small task. My wife and I are going on 5 summers building our yard up from weeds and rocks into something beautiful and it is not easy. Break it down into bite sized chunks that you can sell to the family and have completed in a short amount of time.
Lastly, add some sexy curves! Landscapes love curves.
By the way, I practice architecture and have a minor in landscape architecture, Feel free to send me additional questions on that end. I don't garden railroad though. I really look forward to pictures of your project!
Not really a garden railroad
I'm not really planning on making this a "garden" railroad. Its going to be a raised railroad (3' or so). I had previously done a layout on the ground and enjoyed it, but hated the weeding. Think of a typical shelf layout indoors and that's the approach I want to take. Its only about 300 linear feet of run, so I think its doable. The plan would be to start with staging and build up Redmond. Once Redmond is built, continue to Issaquah. Structures would come next.
I just got done with the front flower beds and gravel patio. If we stay, I would like to,make it a flagstone patio.
BN 8th Sub Blog
Good start
Craig- You have inspired me to get out a tape and actually plan what I’m doing instead of going by the seat of my pants. First, I understand the area well as I worked in Redmond while at the UW; grew up in Mount Vernon along the former NP route and watched BN take over. Darigold was a major customer and the NP crosses over the Mount Vernon Terminal Railroad that switches Stokely Van Camp and other customers including a lumber yard and fuel reseller. On the mainline through town were numerous warehouses that exported the flower bulbs from the valley but the most impressive structure was the old elevator and feed mill. A lot of similarities.
I’ve thought of modeling my hometown but think that the selective compression required would bother me too much. I would enjoy seeing you do the branch though as it would bring back a lot of good memories of watching and chasing trains to Everett.
It is awesome if Sean to offer help! I am also an architect but my green thumb relies on hardy survivors. My line is running through planting beds and along “green lake” (remember the line to the UW?) but requires occasional lowering or it would rise to consume the railroad. Raising the line is a good idea.
This layout reminds me of the One Town concept being discussed by Don Hanley and Jim Six. One thing to consider is the radius into the garage. Switching those industries off that turn might be awkward as well. I’d shoot for a larger radius and less industry to start.
Neil Erickson, Hawai’i
My Blogs
It is obviously a point to point.
Two issues occur to me. How long are your trains going to be? I presume you don't want to run a train out to Issaquah and then have the locomotive push the train all of the way back to the yard. I'm wondering if Issaquah would work better if your siding and spur were laid out more like the prototype picture shows? You would then have a run around track to allow you to get your locomotive in front of the train for the return trip and the caboose to the back. Also it would make it easier to grab cars to leave at Darigold or to pick up loads at Darigold and incorporate them into the train.
The other weakness I see in the plan is that you have no escape for your locomotive when you bring the train into the yard. Likewise you probably need a caboose track in the yard as well. It appears to be set up for short trains with one locomotive and one caboose needed.
Runaround
I agree with Russ. I would add a runaround at or near the end of each run long enough to hold whatever your maximum size train length will be. Another option would be to add a turntable at the end of your staging yard to turn your engine and run back to the other end via an open staging track and then add a wye at the opposite end of the line.
Tim Garland
Runaround & Train Length
There is a run around drawn for Issaquah. Its a 4 car run around. It follows the same track arrangement as the prototype. I labeled the runaround for Issaquah on the original drawing, so I'm not understanding why people are missing it?
Train length will be in the 4-6 car range, max at the most would be 8.
Staging would have a sector plate of some sort to turn locomotives/run around trains. Locomotives would be a pair of GP7's so they really don't have to be turned. I wouldn't need a caboose track, as this is a 1 local at a time layout.
BN 8th Sub Blog
Radius into the garage
Neil,
Good point about the turnout and radius right out of the garage. When I drew up the plans, I didn't push the layout as far back to the property line, but I think in the corner of the garage right there, I have about 20 or 30' to the fence line. I guess I should upload a drawing of the entire property so everyone can see the property boundaries. That said, I might be able to push a little bit more tangent coming out of the garage before it swings towards Redmond.
I would call this a one town layout as well, even if it technically is 2 towns. But the appeal of the layout is that it packs a lot of switching into a small space (even for large scale), but it isn't too selectively compressed. The length of Redmond is a whooping 80' (2320 scale feet 80 real feet times 29 scale feet) or in HO scale about 26' long.
Here's the other kicker...
If we end up moving to a larger house and I have a basement, I would consider taking this same layout plan and building the layout in Proto48....
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P48 & Garden Lines
Craig - There are folks here that may take a minute to draw the plan to scale if you post some property and structure dimensions. I did a sketch of my proposed layout but embarrassed by the amount of ambition/motivation it will require. That said it is still a dream and I take it one day at a time. Maybe one station at a time (The One Station Approach?).
Building an On30 layout in my studio at home has turned out to be considerably different than a garden line. All the tools are WAY more expensive to build stuff outdoors. Good thing I enjoy building freight cars and structure.
Neil Erickson, Hawai’i
My Blogs