Our preference is to keep doing the ad-supported free version of MRH only, and not do a version without ads that has a cover price.

We prefer to stay with forever free, but we thought we'd run a little poll to see if you agree with us or if we're completely missing a market segment that would love to get a version of MRH without ads and they'd gladly pay a reasonable cover price to get such a thing.

So we're asking.

Either or of the first 2 choices work for me.  There are ads I find informative,and others I ignore.  Still a better deal than a 5$ cover price by far.

I'd pay 5$ for MRH with the ads!

I like ads, and in fact, that is all I look at on my first pass through the magazine.  I've found several vendors in MRH that I never heard of before and have bought from, including TrueScene, Evan Designs, Backdrop Junction and probably several more I can't think of off the top of my head.  I really don't understand why some people don't like ads related to their hobby, especially when they aren't paying anything for the magazine.

How would they ever get anything built without product to use?  I'm suspecting the "no ad" guys are just hang overs from April 1st? ....DaveB

I suspect another flavor of the mag will just consume more production time and will only take valuable time away from other projects.

Besides, the ads are important content - they are the lifeblood of any hobby publication - they tell you where to get stuff and what is new on the market.

How else would we find out about the massive amounts of product coming to market? Unless you're going to do a ton of new item reviews in every issue? Is that free advertising?

Keep the mag the way it is. Stay true to the original vision. Keep up the great work!

Do the ads bother people enough to pay a premium to get rid of them? Magic 8-ball says "not likely". People these days talk big on the internet, but when it comes time to pony up the cash, they seem to run and hide. 

Content value of the ads is high. And it's not like the "free" internet browsers, where all kinds of ads that I don't care about keep showing up.

you could probably find someone to cut the ads from an issue and send it to you if you send them a few bucks a month? .....DaveB

I live in Brazil, so most of the sponsors/advertisers mean very little to me. However, the few times I can purchase something from the US I'd rather buy from a MRH sponsor. I also consider some ads as content, since there is always something to learn from everyone. So, although I do not "vote with my wallet" all that often I would rather have a free version with all the adds. I do get mad if I buy a magazine and it has lots of uninteresting ads, but that is hardly the case with MRH sponsors/advertisers, and of course, if they are paying my bill I feel like the least I can do is acknowledge the effort they made in providing me (and lots of others) with a magazine I enjoy reading.

Keep up the great job!!

Daniel Kramer

Most of the adds are for HO and have no value for "N" scale users ...

                                                                                           AzBaja

Okay, let's actually look at the ads in the April issue ot see if what Az says is true.

=============================

BLMA - HO and N in ad
Rapido - HO
ExactRail - HO and N in ad
Bachmann - HO
Credit Valley - large hobby store with all scales
North American Railcar / PWRS - HO and N in ad
Fifer Hobby Supply - HO & N in ad
TrainTek - DCC services - all scales
Bachrus - Running stands - available for all scales
Fox Valley - N scale
Microscale - N, HO, and O scale in ad
O scale resource - O scale only
GLX - HO, S, O, and G scale version of product in ad
TrainMasters - HO layout, prototype, Fn3 layout, weathering (all scales), Hot trains (HO layout)
Yankee Dabbler - HO, DCC, All scales in ad
Coffman clamps - All scales
Nano oil - All scales
Railmaster - HO DCC and sound products
FastTracks - All scales
Southern Digital - Sells DCC for G/O/HO/N/Z
SoundTraxx - Mostly HO sound decoders
AccuLites - Mostly HO DCC and track products
Litchfield Station - DCC for all scales
MRC - HO/O/G power pack in ad
NCE - DCC systems for all scales
Iwata - Airbrushes for all scales
SanJuan - On3 rolling stock
Archer - Rivet decals for all scales
Scenic Express - Scenery products for all scales
Digitrax - DCC systems for all scales
Bowser - Ad for HO product, but Bowser also sells N scale products
North American Railcar / PWRS - Two N scale products in second ad
BEST - HO scale kit in ad, but does sell N scale detail parts
Nick and Nora - HO kit in ad, but website also lists N scale kits
ESU - Primarily HO DCC sound products
MRH DVD - all scales
Railroad Explorer - Prototype magazine
Hobby marketplace - 14 ads shown, only 2 do not sell N scale products
Scotty Mason podcast - not scale specific
TrueLine Trains - HO product in ad, sells mostly HO
MoTrak models - Mostly HO kits
RSLaserKits - Kits for all scales
Rusty Stumps - Detail products for all scales
National Narrow Gauge convention - always has N scale models too
Berrett Hill - layout control products, any scale
Iowa Scaled - layout control products, any scale
TAM Valley - layout electronics, any scale
RR-Circuits - layout electronics, any scale
RailPro - Control system, HO
MRH Store - Allagash Story, HO layout, but many principles are scale independent
Ring Engineering - HO EOT device
MTH - HO locos
Ottawa Train Expo - all scales
TrainMasters - general ad, videos can cover any scale

Summary: 54 ads, 15 ads are totally nonrelevant to N scale (28%), 39 ads include N scale products, vendor also sells N scale products or are scale independent (72%)

N scale is about 20% of the hobby, so how does 72% of the ads being applicable to N scale qualify as "mostly HO and not relevant to N" ...?

===================

Az, your contention does not hold water. I'd say 72% of the ads being relevant to 20% of the hobby is really bending over backwards to serve them. Time to maybe jettison that chip?

Joe, please keep the ads, they are an important part of what makes MRH interesting to me, even as a N scaler !

I just don't understand the "woah is me" mentality that seems to be prevalent in the N scale community these days.   Thanks for posting that list Joe.  

Money is tight. But when it is time to buy something it is so much easier to be able to find an ad for the comp. I want then to look through a maybe outdated Walters cat or flip through RMC until I find the comp and then have to find a link to type in if there is one. You provide a great product Joe with so many side /built in bennies I find it just amazing.

Jack

I've always been of the opinion that MRH warrants a cover price. The mag. has so much solid content and that content is worth something. Sorry, nothing good is free. Nor should it be expected to be. The content in MRH has intrinsic value. Just my opinion.

Joe, Patty and company work very hard off to bring a great magazine to the readership month after month, and don't charge a dime. This bothers me...it always has. I understand and completely respect Joe's point of view, but personally I believe that MRH is worth something regardless of the fact that there is no ink and paper. Content = value. And if something is of value, there should be a price to pay to compensate those who provide the value toi the customer.   

I'm just curious, would folks be willing to pay two bucks an issue AND retain the ads? That's $24 a year for a subscription, the cost of just a couple of pizzas!

I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd pay the $5 an issue AND keep the ads.

Mike Confalone

Ads are information. Without them we would not be kept informed about new products and advances in the hobby unless someone wrote and submitted articles to the magazine. Keep the ads.

The only complaint about the ads that I have is that some (Rapido is the worst for doing this) is that some ads don't mention the scale of their products.

Core product free to the consumer is an excellent business model. Just ask these folks how it is working for them.

As long as the ads are related to model railroading, I'm fine with them.  It's one way you learn about new companies.  And even though few ads are S scale, many apply to all scales.  And I enjoy keeping up with other scales even if I'm not buying them.  Heck I even check out the Digitrax stuff from time to time even though I have NCE.

One of the fun things I do every once in a while is to look through old model railroading magazines from 40 years or more ago.  Kind of interesting to look at the ads and how different things were then.

Enjoy

Paul

Keep the ads. I look at the ads and have bought something from the advertisers. Many times I purchase the product from my hobby shop because of the ad. Ads are content.

Rob in Texas

AZBaja, I'm not a Miss.

  The problem with that is it cuts down the number of readers so the ads become worth less. Charging to read plus lower ad prices might net less for the bottom line? I think MRH is on the right track with the free magazine and the pay Trainmasters section, that would seem to capture the best of both markets....DaveB

Ad to me are informative not only in the fact that the are trying to sell their product but also are telling you what they have to offer. Let's face it, new products show up in ads quite a few times before they show up in a review because they want consumers to purchase them as soon as availability.  And not to bash on the N crowd but it seems a lot of new product releases lately on MRH's facebook page is all about N SCALE!  (which I have no use for)  So I have to agree with Joe in the fact that the N scale argument doesn't fly!  

P.S.   Lot of S Scale and TT scale stuff lately too.  Seems like just the O scale modelers have been left back!

 I think that's due to downsizing by boomers. O takes a huge amount of space to build a layout. A few years a go I started selling my O stuff to buy S stuff and now I'm working in HO scale and N scale and would love to be able to buy more TT scale stuff.If this trend continues I'll probably sell off my S stuff and HO will be my big scale and N my small scale and TT my middle sized scale :>)...........DaveB

I'd gladly pay $2 for MRH with ads.I might pay $5 for MRH without ads.

Don't even ask me what I'd be willing to pay for MRH with or without ads if I could completely block a few forum member's posts.

Not many, just a few...

AZBaja- I had a teacher named Tom once, and he was a jerk. Does that make all Tom's jerks? Lets grow up a little. 

Better get my 2¢ in before the forum gets locked.

I could care either way. I wouldn't pay for a subscription. If that included having access to the forum I'd be gone and so would my pictures. In the 2 years and 17 weeks I've only found one article that inspired me and that was Geoff Bunza's animated crane. The only other article of interest was Ken Rickman's four part steam engine article.

I've gotten Railroad Model Craftsman since 1964 and still do. I had a subscription to Model Railroader but let it lapse in 2008 because they had gotten away from articles that I liked. I also have a subscription to Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette that started in 1984 and still do. I liked the scratch building articles in these magazines. Something I don't see in MRH.

BTW almost anything can be found about model railroading with a good search engine if your not to lazy to do a little typing. I really don't need all the information in one place, meaning ad's.

Bernd

I am excited about RailPro. I would never have known about RailPro if it weren't for an Ad in MRH. Thank you RING for supporting MRH otherwise I would have never known about your product... because I would never have known to search for it. It's not easy to search for something that you don't know exists.

Joe,

I love the ads.  That's how I find out what's available for possible purchase and use on my model railroad.  I'd also pay a yearly fee along with the adds.  Wonderful magazine!!!!!  I look forward to it every month.  

Tom Johnson

... For those who would "gladly" pay you $5 an issue with the ads, I'd suggest putting up a Paypal link and take their money ... no kidding.

... If anyone wants to pay you $5 an issue for an ad-free version; again I'd take their money and send them an issue w/o the ads ... easy money.  :)

... For everyone else, just keep rolling as you have in the past.  Everyone is happy.  :)

[It is easy to say "I'd pay $XX for that"; but actually writing the check is a completely different matter.]

Joe,

Old auditors statement - Figures don't lie but liars figure.  

Please keep this the way it is.  Actually, add more adds, that what PAY THE BILLS!

Thanks for a great magazine, 

Andy Hauser

Minooka, IL

It keeps me up to date on the latest and greatest

Why are you even asking the question?
Peter

Some readers and staff have wondered if there isn't a market for a version of MRH without ads, and others in the staff think not. This poll is intended to lay that question to rest once and for all.

Rather than guessing or debating from theoretical positions, we just ask and get some real data to work with.

I don't think you'll get useful data, you'll just get opinions from those who choose to respond. You probably get a lot more hits from those who never comment than from us who do so I'd go by hits on the mag's website  instead of comments in the forum.....DaveB 

I liked the scratch building articles in these magazines. Something I don't see in MRH.

I agree. We don't get enough of the more advanced scratchbuilding articles. I'd love to get more ... Anyone out there listening?

As a regular reader I have found ads to be useful at times. Most of them get skipped over, but I have really found some gems in the ads too, which I would not have found otherwise. To me they are reference material, they give me places to search for modeling products and services that I might otherwise be unaware of.

The ads are, to me, very valuable.  I've bought a bunch of things over time because the ads led me to the company--even if I didn't buy the specific item advertised, I discovered the vendor and bought from them.  If I had to pay for the magazine, I'd miss the ads and the content--I'd only spend my limited funds on issues that had stuff I would USE, not things that are interesting but not useful at the time.  In short, keep them--I won't pay for the magazine without ads--they add a lot to it.

Don't make any changes to the ad model! (No pun intended.)

I've come here just to click on a sponsor's ad to find something.........

I think that the advertising is very useful for those people new to the hobby. The articles provide lots of good information and how to's . The ads give the reader valuable information on what's available, and where to get it.  Your business model is working, and membership continues to grow.

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it...

my 2 cents

Randy

I'm like others, I consider the ads as part of the content.  I read the articles and other content first, then on my second pass I look at the ads, especially from new sponsors. 

So lets see how this works. Let's just say 40 ads per issue. $5.00 per issue. So someone would spend $.125 per ad just so they wouldn't have to look at something. $60.00 per year not to look at something?  Doesn't make any cents to me. Keep MRH Free!

Wayne

In my estimation, MRH is not broke.  It works just fine. 

1) The price is right to the subscribers.

2) We don't have to spend endless hours researching the web.  We click on the  advertiser's website and look around.  If what we are looking for is not there, we move on.

3) We may not always find what we need, but will certainly will find lots that we want.

4) If you can't find what you are looking for, post a question.  Someone is bound to answer it.

5)  Consider how much work went in to the initial planning of the MRH site.  I'm sure it took a lot of time, effort and, initially, money out of someone's pocket to get it started. (I hope the investment was recouped)

6) The camaraderie is worth more than you will ever get with with a paper-back mag.

7)  Be thankful to those who put their idea to work for the rest of us to enjoy.

Remember:  The simple and free things in life are (usually) worth more than those things you pay for only to be disappointed.

G. T.

I liked the scratch building articles in these magazines. Something I don't see in MRH.

I agree. We don't get enough of the more advanced scratchbuilding articles. I'd love to get more ... Anyone out there listening?

I think you will be hard pressed to find somebody that will do a scratchbuild article such as has been presented in past issues of the paper model railroad press. Articles like Jack Work, Al Moore, Mel Thornburgh, to name a few, is looked on as work. I get this perception from the posts on this forum. Many a times I've read where a poster has made mention that they don't have time to build something because he wants to see his layout operational. I believe these modelers are in the majority on this forum. The whole magazine and forum is geared more toward the end product than it is about getting to the end.

I haven't gone through all the ads to see what is being advertised so I could be wrong, but I don't see any that are geared to the scratchbuilder. In other words an advertiser that advertises raw stock to build with. I don't mean going back to the mines to mine the ore to make the rail either.

Another factor of no articles could be the age group that is in attendance here. Many are younger and just starting the hobby. They came here and saw the ad's for all the nice RTR products and have never even considered scratchbuilding. Others may be from retirement age and are picking up the hobby again but see the new RTR products in the ad's and figure they do not have enough time left in there life to bother with scratchbuilding. Others may not have the talent for doing such work and appreciate the fine detailed models for them to purchase to build their railroad.

It's almost like a Catch 22. Will somebody write an article to draw advertisers or will an advertisement draw a scratcbuilder to build a model?

Also I understand that it takes quite a bit of effort to write, take proper pictures, and build a model. It takes time. That seems to be in short supply in todays society, time. Oh and dedication to the hobby.

Bernd

It's true that there are almost no ads targeted directly at O-scalers.  That doesn't mean the ads don't have value.  Some of the manufacturers carry O-scale details, some of the DCC sellers carry speakers that are great for small O-scale locos or tenders, things like airbrushes and paint are independent of scale, etc.  I find the ads provide additional value for me and I can just skip over the ones not of interest.  I really like MRH just the way it is.

Bob Bartizek

Lebanon, OH

www.pennwestrr.com

..............and you don't see me complaining about ad or mag content.  We are used to being a minor player and besides, you can learn a lot of techniques and methods that are transferable to the larger scale.  Ads, not so much, but it's nice to see (and sometimes drool at) what is available, especially in HO. 

I'm not fond of our 2 O Scale (only) mags. I started a subscription to one of them and wrote to the editor about an article idea I had about adding electrical frog control to Caboose Industries Tall Switch stands.  I received a really curt, bordered on snotty, reply that said not interested, subject has been done many times, yada yada!  Wow, canceled my subscription and was so put off by attitude, I made a thorough search and found no articles anywhere near close.  Hey, maybe I missed them.  Right! 

"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know to difference".

Suggest you N scalers go run a train or something.................

Keep things as they are, Joe, and thanks for a fine product.............

Peter

I'm happy with the ads, and prefer then dotted throughout the magazine too. That way I tend to notice them more.

Brian

Adds are part of the experience in reading MRH and are useful to those of us who live outside of the continental US. I would happily pay for MRH but please keep the adds.

Chris in the UK

Don't ever get the idea that we'd ever drop doing a free version of MRH - we said forever free and we mean it.

This little poll was to see if we should also do a version with no ads and put a $5 cover price on that version. My guess was that few would want such a thing but some in the staff thought we might be leaving money on the table by not also doing an ad-free version.

As I suspected, this poll is showing that almost no one wants such a thing. I also feel it would send the wrong message. We said forever free, so let's stick to our promise, lets don't send mixed messages.

If we do anything, I prefer to do anthologies around certain topics from the magazine as eBooks. Yes it will be reprints, but we will clearly mark it as such .... From the pages of MRH ... And it will primarily be sold on places like Amazon and the Apple iBooks store, and it will have a little house ad for MRH in the back. Or if you'd like a book with say, all the DCC columns together you could pick it up for a few dollars.

THAT'S how I see ad-free working with magazine content, not trying to muddy the waters with an ad-free magazine that has a cover price ... Otherwise we'll start getting: what happened to forever free?

 Sounds interesting and useful to modelers in any gauge. Finish it up and submit it here....DaveB