Can we have...

Sweet! Can we have a larger copy of the plan to view?

A brief bit of history

The club layout had more than one objective when designed. One of the primary design goals for the layout was to be able to function as a display railroad for open houses and allow two trains to run with out any or at least very little attention from club members in attendance. The layout has two separate track loops so trains can be run with out attention. When one counts the trolley line 3 can easily be run with no attention needed provided the trolley does not go to the Roscoe loop. In addition to that several things were added to provide destinations for freight cars, a large city, passenger operations, logging, mining, and narrow gage. Since it is a club layout it was designed by committee and had to be all things to all people.

A history was concocted to have explanations for two competing lines to comprise the double track lines and to then merge and form one line. The complete history is available on the link to the club website below. Prototypical operation was an after thought as it had not been something that had caught the interest of most of the members at the time of design. Of particular note is the present lack of off layout staging that could represent points not modeled on the layout. Also a means of running an out and back operation with out entering a scene more than once with the exception of the return operation is not available.

Past attempts at operations involved a train running a lap or two switching a location, more laps and then switching another location etc. What I hope to be able to do at this point is to run two locals, one from Chyrokes yard to Dexter yard and another from Dexter to Chyrokes. Both Dexter and Chyrokes will have dedicated switchers to make up trains and serve the industries in their respective yards. With 2 man crews we should easily keep 8 operators busy, if we add a dispatcher at the panel and a motorman for the trolley there will easily be enough to keep 10 people busy. If we have fewer folks show up we could go to one man crews and perform all of the tasks with 6 people.

We will attempt to maintain right hand running on the layout and switch the industries with out crossing into the opposing tracks except at Wilson Yard. I will begin with the train leaving Chyrokes on the way to Dexter and we will address the industries available. Since a great deal of time has been spent on improving the structure of late a lot of track needs cleaning and a bit of repair, particularly switches that are not functioning. Nothing is worse than unreliable track for killing an operating session, so it will all need attention as we prepare. Some locations do not at this time have a full compliment of industries so we may be switching cars to spots next to paper signs.

In addition to the switching listed above I am likely to add a transfer run from Price to Dexter and Dexter to Price as well as working the interchange tracks at Price from Chyrokes. I'll keep you folks posted on how this develops.

Larger Plan

Hope this works out ok Bill. When I open the blog page I then right click on the image and choose view image and it becomes full screen. If it does not work properly a click on the link to the club site (etmrc) will allow a full screen view of the track plan. It is in the HO layout section and is marked plan.

Chyrokes to Dexter

The yard crew will make up a train based on a switch list which will denote pick ups and set outs by location along the route. This switch list will leave with the train crew and constitute all of the paper work they will have for the trip.

The key here is to have an absolute minimum of paper to handle and cards etc to fool with on the initial event. Most of the guys have not done anything like this before so the more train running and the less paper work the better till we get some basic concepts down. One of the guys started preparing actual car cards for all the cars etc. some time ago but much of that would need to be redone at this point. 

As the train leaves Chyrokes the first place that can be switched is the freight house area. It consists of three tracks that can be switched with out a runaround move and has a total capacity of about 17 cars.

The photo on the left is taken from the elevated passenger station looking back toward Chyrokes Yard. Looking to the right in the first photo one can see the freight house area on the other side of the aisle. The photo on the right shows the three sidings just to the left of the H-24-66s pulling the freight out of the yard.

The next place the train arrives that can be switched with out blocking both mains is Wilson Yard. Wilson Yard has 2 tracks that can hold 2 cars each for this train, an overhead crane track, and an end loading track that must be accessed by a runaround move. There is a track to facilitate this and it will not foul the opposing track. There is also a station track that will hold one car.

The photo on the left shows an overall of Wilson Yard, to the left of the trainmasters and the right of the water tower is the combination station and its one car capacity spot. At the rear platform of the 2nd trainmaster is the end loading ramp and a car can be spotted at the ramp with a second spotted just to the left of the road. In the photo to the right the over head crane track can be seen and a view of the passing siding can be seen to the right of the end loading ramp. The brown brick structure is the office for the Mathis mine and it can be seen just to the rear of the crane. Up on the hill to the rear is the company town of Hickeyville named after that well known developer Leroy.

After working the Wilson Yard the train will then arrive at the Mathis mine for coal shifting duties. There are 5 tracks available with out a runaround move and if the sidings are filled they will hold between 24 and 28 cars. It is not practical to fill the sidings as the cars could not be filled in that fashion, 10 to 18 cars left behind would be plenty to take care of the spots at the mine and allow them to be pulled later, the big difference would depend on the type of hoppers left at the mine with the higher number being indicative of twin hoppers.

Here are two views of the Mathis mine, in the second photo it is easier to see the layout of the tracks, from the aisle working in we have the main line, the office track, 3 tipple tracks, and the slack bin track. Crews will be required to use a handle to reach into the tracks due to light rail and lack of clearance under the tipple. The unfinished section is due to a relocation project and some additional construction that will result in a hoist house being added so a deep shaft mine will be depicted instead of a slope mine.

After this the next stop will be a small ore bin that requires a runaround and none is available. The closest runaround track is either Wilson or Dexter yards and the switching might best be handled by the Dexter switcher making a dedicated move to the ore bin and then back to the yard.

Above we have two views of Dexter and the industries and tracks available. There is at this time considerable real estate available for additional industries to be switched by the crew at Dexter. In addition to the cars to be switched while on the way to Dexter there is also justification for a transfer run to be included. My next post I will show the Dexter to Chyrokes run with an additional trip to the electron power plant to keep it supplied with coal.

Hope you like the story so far. After we get some of the over the road stuff down we will go over the paper work and what each yard will look like prior to getting under way. Suggestions are welcome as always.

like it so far

Tommy Pelley

Thanks for the comment Tommy

So far no car forwarding system, this will just be an opportunity to move some cars in a fashion other than display running. Most of the guys have done nothing other than that so far. This initial try will just be to see how they can function with actually needing to do something with the cars. The idea about no car #s is interesting but we should be able to read them ok in HO scale.

I have switched out most of the cars with cars from myself or Paul as ours run well. A few were kept that have been left on the layout. Some of the ones that were on the layout ran so poorly they acted as if the brakes had been set.

I have run one of the trains and set up cars to be picked up, I will describe it below.

Up Date on Chyrokes to Dexter

I began the run from Chyrokes to Dexter with 24 cars that would be set out and a similar number that would be picked up. For purposes of checking out how much time would be used by the crew switching the various locations and getting to Dexter. I was concerned that it might not take enough time to feel like a train was actually run, after all how much work could be involved in picking up and spotting 24 cars?

I did not use a fast clock but actual time and started the clock from the time the train began to leave the yard and stopped it when it got to Dexter. It took a bit more than two hours to switch all the tracks. I established a few rules for the operation.

1) Road locomotives are not allowed onto the sidings, a handle must be used to reach into all tracks, (a cut of cars).

2) The crew (HO) that can be used for flagging and switching will consist of 5 people, Engineer, Fireman, Brakeman, Conductor, Brakeman.

3) Radios are in Caboose and Locomotive

4) Men on the ground will have to use hand signals so line of sight must be maintained between Engineer and crew on the ground. In some locations a system of relays will need to be used.

5) If at any time a train is blocking the route of another train the route must be protected by Flagmen sent out far enough to prevent collisions.

6) Crews will be dropped off from either of their respective locations engine and caboose.

7) Speeds will be kept at such a rate so as to permit boarding and disembarking from train by crews

8) Switches will be thrown by ground personnel so train will stop before switch and wait for crew to throw switch.

By doing things in this fashion it was relatively easy to switch the various locations except for Wilson Yard. Wilson required a run around move and due to the track layout took as much time to pick up 3 cars and drop 3 cars as it did to pick up approximately 10 and 15 cars and drop 10 to 15 cars at the other two locations. Wilson yard is not a spot for high productivity and appears to be a location that a real railroad would not have built in that fashion, or shortly after its merger would have done a major track alignment.

I was told this was designed this way to add to operating interest.

Note to self: when ever possible avoid run around moves for switching freight it really is a time killer. Also avoid the need to spot cars in the way of other actions.

Now I believe that as this goes on time will be able to be saved in working Wilson but it will still be a drain on a crew.

One thing I discovered about my coal cars vs the ones on the layout was the difference in rolling qualities. When spotting my cars at the mine items needed to be used as brakes to keep the cars from rolling off and fouling the switches.

After making the run on one of the locals I can say that I did not feel like I did not get to run a train for a long enough time. I think the effort involved will be such that it will become an enjoyable activity for the guys in the club.

My next run will be Dexter to Chyrokes and we will see how that goes.

Also if any of you folks have some things to add or share I am very interested. The initial run will be overly simplified so as to get the guys familiar with some of the concepts of moving freight to consignees and picking up freight from shippers.

Ops for beginners

Rob

If your crew has not been part of regular Ops sessions, start simple and add to it has they develop their skills.  If you have to many rules they will give up on Ops Sessions.

We started with a simple forum for a Peddler Freight.  It listed each Town that the Peddler was going to visit.  Each Town had a list of Industries that the Peddler was going to switch. Each Industries had two lines on the forum, one for Pick up and another for Setout.  The Freight Agent would pencil in what is to be picked up or setout.  We started with simple. just car type, (boxcar, flat, hopper, etc).  As time goes by, you can added more items to their work load.

Doug W

Doug W.

Doug thanks for your thoughts.

Those are good points to ponder. Nice thing is if it begins to be too much for the guys we could quickly adjust to that. I am hoping for there to be a bit of mental challenge to this other wise it may be boring, but as you point out it could be too much for those that find running the train with out derailing challenging.

I will try and run the other local tonight and see what happens with it.

I am afraid if make it too easy I will have box cars at the coal mine, just kidding, a bit.

Mental Challenge

Tom

Before my first Ops Session on my home layout, I did a test run of each the three Peddlers, each took me about 20 minutes to do.  So the Ops Session came and the three crews headed out on their first trip, an hour later the first crew returned.  Note: half of the people there were regular operators on another layout.  Learning the layout and how to switch it, will be the Mental Challenge at first.

Good luck

Doug W

operation

One thing I forgot to add when describing the operations aspect of model railroads that most of my fellow club members have. Off layout staging seems to be a foreign concept to them. They continually tell me that they have provided staging in Dexter yard and Price Yard. As can be seen from the plan price yard is at least off the main part of the layout. Dexter on the other hand is a working visible yard with industries that will need to be switched via both mainlines.

The beyond the basement concept seems to have been missed by the designers of the layout track plan. The main idea of operations that I was able to glean from these guys is one that I first heard about from John Armstrong via one of his track plans and accompanying narratives. It was a fairly compact plan and involved switching in a small yard an orbiting the main for a certain number of laps and then switching something, doing some more laps and then switching something else etc. Most of the guys seem to have embraced this concept of operations rather than what was later described as sincere modeling where the train goes through each scene only once and runs from off stage staging to off stage staging and works the modeled portion on the way through.

I look at this process as the tin plate effect where trains just orbited with no plan for operating. This is not a slam on folks that like to do this as I like watching them run as well. I am just a little perplexed as to how they were able to figure that was a way to operate the layout. As I see it now the staging they have would allow 72 cars to be staged in six, 12 car trains. This was designed to support a 2 track mainline that fills a 22 x 50 foot space or a bit bigger.

I am planning on a way to have an operating session that is more sincere and will allow for trains to get past one and other. I will be drawing up plans for a second level with dedicated staging for trains in the 25 to 50 car range and some additional switching. That is a ways into the future but I think I have a way to accomplish my goals and make it fit with what we have with only minor changes. That might be a topic for another blog subject.

Thanks everyone for all the nice replies and discussion, your ideas are very much appreciated.

I should let everyone know how the second run goes later on. I have had a fun day with tax return stuff today but it is finished. It seems that every time I do my taxes and look at what my dollars buy I am more disappointed. I will go to the train club today a bit early and hopefully that will cheer me up. Paying taxes is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, it feels really good when you stop. See you guys later.

search MIT

Tech Model Railroad Club

The TMRC web address is  http://tmrc.mit.edu/  The site is down and has been down for a while. Trying to contact members to find our what is going on with the club.

Tom

Can you post that PDF or provide a working Link?

If you can PM me with an

I just searchd "tmrc

TMRC

It seams that the crew at TMRC did not realize that the site was down. Inquires resulted in a reset.

Tom, Thanks I just down

Tom, Thanks I just down loaded the pdf you were talking about and did a quick skim of it, about 20 pages and it looks like it maybe quite helpful.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftmrc.mit.edu%2FPublicity%2FTMRC_operating_scheme_v2.pdf&ei=gXJBVIuWAenx8AH5hYGACw&usg=AFQjCNHL-neWlOJuftAsLQi5-BuCsfbWrw&bvm=bv.77648437,d.b2U

I copied the link above in case anyone else is interested.

Tom, Did not mean to act like

Tom,

Did not mean to act like I was ignoring you, I will shoot an e-mail link to you, just have been laid low with a back issue since Wednesday. Things are starting to improve again have no idea what brought this on.

On Saturday if things are working out I will run the local from Dexter to the power plant and then on back to Dexter. I wish to see how long it should take to actually make the run and what issues will crop up. Right now I have place holders in for the freight cars and more maybe needed. I will also need to drop cars at both yards for the switchers to handle in covering their industries. As this goes on we will see how things go with the layout. Right now lots of track needs attention, if we put up bad order signs for everything that does not work we are liable to be resembling the Penn Central right before Conrail.

It is really amazing how fast things stop working when no one is doing anything other than running on the main line loops. Track cleaning and maintenance here we come.

Below is the body of the switch list I have designed for our initial ops session. The heading did not copy so I'll tell you what goes on there. Date, start time, Train number, End time. More info could be added later, right now we are trying to be as simple as possible so that the emphasis is on just running the trains and getting through the session. So far it has taken more than two hours to make the run for the first local, we will see how number two does.

Conspicuous by its absence are through trains of any nature. After I get this mapped out the through trains may run so that the cars needed for the locals get to their respective yards. Might have to run one in each direction with stops at both yards. I can see in a short amount of time we will be scheduling trains and can then run them in a sequence until we run out of time and then pick up where we left off later.

Question

Rob

A question.  Is the columns for Pickup and Setout where the Industry name will go? aka XYZ Industries Door 2.

How will you handle when a the train moves from one town to another with this form?

Doug W

Doug, List is only to handle

Doug,

List is only to handle locations of where cars go. No schedule track warrants or anything else at this time. You are right in that it will show locations where cars go. At this time we are trying to just ease into operations. Not sure how well through movements can be handled with the present layout and the Lionel type staging they have designed into it.

I see lots of issues for realistic movements on the layout at this time. They will need to be addressed and overcome a little at a time. Adding some more cross overs will allow operations to get past the toy train stage by allowing trains to get past each other. As it is set now the sidings and everything else is set up for 12 car trains which is fine if you are modeling a one train a day branch, but for me that length of train does not even provide the illusion of a train. In all the trains in real life I have seen I can not recall ever seeing both ends at the same time.

 "So far it has taken more

That sounds about right depending on the work needed. Now just add a through train ot two for him to clear the tracks for and see how that goes.....DaveB 

Sorry I have been not posting

Sorry I have been not posting for a while. Had a surprise back issue that has had me down for a while. I plan on getting to the club on Saturday and will hopefully have something to post of interest later. Since the back issue this web site has been my extent of model railroading, Thank goodness for you guys putting up things worth looking at on the website at MRH.

Through freights

Rob,

I'm eagerly following your operation blog here. As you know from my own posts which you have so kindly responded to, I am in the process of working out an operational scheme for my future layout in an effort to avoid those problems you've mentioned your club track plan has. The detailed description of how the local freights will run on your club layout has been helpful for me as I plan the operation of my own locals. So now I'm eagerly awaiting your installment on how the through freights will operate to help me iron out my thoughts there.

Out of curiosity, why did you decide that no engine should go onto the industry spur, but will switch all spurs with a handle? I presume that's to mimic the industry siding track is built too light to handle the weight of the engine. Is that something you added just for operational interest on your layout, or is that pretty much standard prototype practice?

Keep up the good work!