But I'm not... not really... I mean, I could be, but, my own layout is small, and simple, and depicts a movie studio, so the ops wouldn't be anything like a prototypical railroad.
My ops consist of what looks right for the "director".
"I need the Connie for this scene, pulling passenger cars, coming in from the southern side of the station (lighted side), and having it pulling out of the station facing east"
Okay... so the Connie is parked on the siding behind two other engines, and two cars, and facing the wrong way... the passenger cars are behind a switcher, over on the northern track... so the fun is figuring it out for the scene.
But hardly prototype railroad ops, as there is no "main run", and only a few engines, and cars being moved at any given time. No paperwork... no car cards...
Now, why am I not a fan of prototypical ops?
I've never done it before. I'm not a member of a club... my home layout is too small to really invite people over for an ops session, and there's really nowhere to do ops. I asked in a posting here about local San Diego people, and never got a single response, and I'm not as outgoing as I sem to be, so i never got around to asking around at the local shop.
So I know nothing about ops, and the few articles online I've found, and books I perused at the library seemed a bit like stereo instructions to me, and I lost interest rather quickly. (though the TOMA ops session on TMTV sparked my interest a bit)
That said, whether or not I'm a fan of ops, takes nothing away from my joy of modeling. Building, assembling, and running trains. I would like a "roundy round", but my space limits me to a point to point, so I have fun with what I have.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Maybe, someday, I'll go to an ops session, have so much fun, that I'll get into ops... but, one of the joys of this hobby, is if I start to get bored (which rarely happens) i discover a new aspect, and am excited all over again.
Ops sessions is one of those secrets waiting to be discovered.
But for now... it rally doesn't interest me... because it's not something I have ever done.
I know that the La Mesa club does ops on their Tehachapie layout. I think the San Diego Model Railroad Club that built the Cariso (spelling)Gorge layout at the museum may also do some sort of ops as well.
It opens the door to when I do learn more about ops, I just may become a fan.
I like open doors.
I probably was born in a barn...
San Diego Model Railroad Museum... I do try to get there once a month (though I missed going the past couple of months due to illness) and there's a guy that's part of the club there that invites me back stage to help with things from time to time... the folks there are really friendly.
At the risk of sounding like a heretic, it seems as though an easy way to introduce basic car movements would be the use of tabs on cars.
The pluses are several 1) cheap and easy to use, 2) very simple to set up, 3) flexible, 4) introduces car movements, 5) simple to explain, 6) easy to expand, 7) prototypical.
Negative is that it ain’t visually appealing.
Look at the positives. Chanel stock with a marker identifies the industry on one side and another, or mty (return to yard) on the other. Some use painted or colored labels with a number or letter to match the industry or spot.
Make only the ones you want to route. The tank or coal hopper may not need them if it’s obvious where they go. Same with the refers. Want to route a car somewhere else (say an mty is need at the furniture factory)? Make another tab and switch it out.
The owner can set up the picks and drops before an operating session by flipping the tabs. This can be at random, use a Switchlist app, or a roll of the die. Spot those in your train based on the tab and pick up those with tabs noting a new location. Those cars with tabs that match the current location stay.
Our prototype may have staples the routing info right to the car side or makes with chalk so the tabs needn’t be huge. On larger scales, such as my On30 cars, a small magnet glued to the inside of the care might hold a smaller, less obtrusive tab. It really is only a reminder of the destination as one grows more comfortable with routing the cars. A switchlist can be provided to the more experienced operator.
Rather use car cards? The tabs are the same thing so use them to make a few. Use a black card template and note the routing and suggest some contents. Use some envelopes to match, labeled as the freight car, to insert the “waybill” into the car. Some use clear pockets such as the type for collectibles - baseball cards for example. Tape them to an index card with the car info or simply use a pre-printed label on the pocket.
These are just some thought to help clear the mist. Taking away the random movement of cars adds a lot of fun to running - operating - the layout. It doesn’t have to be hard to understand or set up.
I forgot all about this until today. Avalon Hill put out a game called B&O/C&O where you and your opponent dispatched trains with things like situation cards to inhibit movement. It was supposedly very authentic and perhaps one could learn some dispatching from it. I have the game, it was my father's he played it a few times with my older brothers but it takes a long time to setup and play. I must dig it out and have a look at it. More info here:
Two local friends have been using tabs on their cars for years. One is HO and the other N. Both use Plastruc channel stock wide enough to fit over a running board. One side has a town-industry code (black letters on white background) and the other is painted a color that corresponds to the reverse route interchange. It does make sorting in a yard go quicker.
Personally I don't like them from the appearance standpoint. Makes it really obvious I'm looking at a model, not a model of a real train, because real trains don't have honkin' big pieces of I-beam sitting on the roof. And it seems to promote laziness, since both layout owners usually just flip the tabs, sending the same cars back to the same industries over and over.
So I'd use it as a way to introduce car-forwarding to a layout or group of operators, not as a permanent system.
And please, do not confuse car-fowarding systems with train management systems (TT&TO, manual block, CTC, TWC, etc). Two different things. And you can have one without the other depending on the layout. For instance, the guy who wants to just build a yard to have fun switching his freight car fleet does not need a train management system. A layout that only features passenger trains might not need a car fowarding system. But most layouts need both.
Personally I don't like them from the appearance standpoint. Makes it really obvious I'm looking at a model, not a model of a real train, because real trains don't have honkin' big pieces of I-beam sitting on the roof. And it seems to promote laziness, since both layout owners usually just flip the tabs, sending the same cars back to the same industries over and over.
Real trains are not 4" long and are not way under 12oz either...
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I'm not a fan of tabs on the tops of cars, and I have run on layouts that had them. If you go to the trouble of weathering and scenery, the tabs look downright silly. You might as well just run stock equipment and have everything a Plywood Central if you're gonna do that.
my own layout is small, and simple, and depicts a movie studio, so the ops wouldn't be anything like a prototypical railroad.
My ops consist of what looks right for the "director".
"I need the Connie for this scene, pulling passenger cars, coming in from the southern side of the station (lighted side), and having it pulling out of the station facing east"
Okay... so the Connie is parked on the siding behind two other engines, and two cars, and facing the wrong way... the passenger cars are behind a switcher, over on the northern track... so the fun is figuring it out for the scene.
That's a very interesting concept. How interesting would this be, running a 'movie' train (with modeled camera crew lineside) that everyone else has to work around? Hey, you can't run that stack train near there right now; they're shooting a remake of "Emperor of the North" at milepost 20!"
That, or an excursion train. You could even put photo runby movements into the op session as well!
Wow, I hadn’t thought about that game for a long time. It’s been somewhere in the basement storage for a few decades. Now I’m going to have to find it.
You’re right. Those old board games were interesting, but they took a long time to set up. I wonder how many were ever played more than a few times.
In the early days there was Dispatcher from Avalon Hill. I played it a few times with my brother. I don't know how realistic it was, but it sure was detailed. Even down to having collisions if you made a mistake. The challenge was getting all the passenger trains and scheduled freights through on time while also getting the extras through. It's been a long time, but I think there was even a mountain district that required helpers.
Squad Leader was Avalon Hill's best game. Used to play that quite a bit, back when I actually had free time in multi-hour segments over several days in a row. I miss that. Next time I have that kind of time somebody will probably be changing my diapers and I won't have the dexterity to manipulate those die-cut paper counters. They did produce a lot of cool games back in the day.
The best dispatching game/simulator I saw was "Train Dispatcher 2" by SignalCC. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be compatible with the more modern MS operating systems. It was so realistic I didn't play it because it was too much like work.
It was replaced by "Train Dispatcher 3", but I never tried that.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
@Scott - Exactly my point. Tabs could be an easy way to introduce freight car forwarding and lead easily to creating car cards if desired. I’m glad you mentioned N scale as the tabs provide a quick way to see the routing or blocking of a specific car at a glance. Reading car numbers in any scale can be challenging.
Yes, I agree that the tabs can be visually distracting (maybe even silly) but the tabs needed look out of place. Lee - you may to consider something as I described above where a simulated chalk mark on the side of the car would point your operators to the industry. This has been on my mind for some time so will have to give it a try and post some examples. I operate alone so the trains run in sequence and the switchlist is adequate for moving 4-5 car trains. If I were to have someone join me the tabs will make explaining the “game” a lot simpler.
Yes tabs look odd. But as a device for starting operations they are very useful. For a modular group they are ideal because they are not car specific, you don't have to bring "car cards" or worry about somebody walking off with them in their pocket.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
I have Squad Leader, and I agree, it's an awesome game. I had a buddy who would play, probably 20 years ago, but since he moved away no one is willing. There are a LOT of rules, and I think I only got through the first 25 pages or so. But what a fun game!
@Neil
My wife is still talking about that trip to Hawaii. And since we both know Switchlist, you'll hardly even have to train me.
Michael - Superintendent and Chief Engineer View My Blogs
Tabs are just a very simple for of a waybill that rides with the car instead of in a car pocket. If my memory serves me it was Ed Ravenscott who wrote about the method in MR (years ago) and used by John Allan. Lynn Wescott also wrote a follow up to Ed’s article(s) that added additional color to the “tabs” similar to John’s method.
Essentially a tab is often a pice of “H” plastic (or wide flange material in engineering language) wide enough to fit over the top of a roof walk and that is cut to about 3/4” long. It is painted either one or two colors, one dominant, and may have a number or letter applied to each side to identify the industry or spot. John and Lynn liked using colored washers that set on a small tack sticking out of the tops of cars. (This seemed somewhat like another thing for me to get stabbed with ...)
Just like a car card, the conductor would look at the tab facing up and use the dominant color to block the car in the train toward that destination. Yellow might be Ashley Creek with a Red end indicating it is coming from Nicholas Landing. If this is a loaded hopper car then the two colors may be enough information to forward the car. A letter or number can be added for a specific location once it reaches AC. Once there, like car cards, it can be spotted and held until the next session to flip the tab for a new route (usually back to where it came from) so might be Red with a Yellow end.
The use of a program such a SwithList seems a natural way to provide some help choosing which tabs to flip (or apply) so new crew members don’t need to read the car numbers and try to match them up with those on the layout. When taking a train out on the road it may simply have an entire block of Yellow tabs to drop at the next yard. While there, a track with cars going in the same direction have tabs that show they need to go from where they are (small color) to where they need to go (large color). The owner or yardmaster simply points out the cars to be added or has a switcher tack them on, replaces the caboose, and the train moves to the next destination.
It is honestly more work to type it out than do it! The nice thing is that we can start out with a few pieces of plastic channel and a Sharpie or colored markers. Use your switch list to mark the destination and set it on the roof walk. Each time you run some trains add some more until you are routing cars. In the words of Frank Ellison “Now you’re really living, man!”
Here are a couple of examples. The first is an HO Box that I used because my Plastruct C channel fit over the roof walk nicely. The colors are just some electrical tape that was on my workbench.
Here is a 30’ On30 boxcar with a small piece of sheet steel added to the side of the car and held with a magnet. I couldn’t find a white Prismacolor pencil this morning to add markings. A white out pen didn’t do well (lol).
This experiment is ongoing as I don’t always want to add or remove tabs for photos and the “chalkboard” idea appeals to me.
Tab on car uses some sort of marker on top of a car to indicate its destination. There are many types. Paper slips, thumbtacks, washers, a piece of tin (magnet in the car), a magnet (piece of steel in the car), H column, self stick labels (low tack), etc.
Normally coding is by color, some also add a letter or number designation. Complexity depends on the specificity of the routing (specific cars on specific spots vs appropriate car at appropriate industry) and the number of destinations.
On a really big layout decoding the color/number/letter combinations can be a barrier and many people object to modifying the cars (holes, pins, magnets) and the visual impact of the tag.
The benefit is its a really simple way to start operation quickly and at low cost. Go raid the kid's construction paper stash and cut 1" squares of several colors, then a bigger square or rectangle of each color. Fold the 1" squares in half to make little "tents". Put the big squares on or by each of the industries and put a tent on each each car in the train or yard. Put a white tent on the cars at industry to be pulled and taken back to the yard. Switch by color.
Or just use white tents and put a letter or number on the tag and slips of paper with the letter or number next to the industries.
Or just make white tents and put the car type, station, industry spot on the tents (using codes as necessary) and put them on the cars in the yard or train and switch by the written designation.
Or just make little white tents and put a white tent on the cars at industry to be pulled, then replace them with the same car type from the train (or other appropriate car).
For a small switching layout you could probably make an operating system in less than an hour with a sheet of white paper, a marker and a pair of scissors.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
Just to give you an idea how easy tag on car can be, I took a sheet of paper and cut little squares, put letters on them, made industry tags, went downstairs and put them on an industry area and a cut of cars (cars in the train go to the lettered industries, cars at industry with a "Y" get pulled). My previous post was at 10:32 am and this post was about 10:47 am, so it took me a little over 15 minutes to make an operating system, set up an operating session, take pictures of it and tell you about it. Tag on car is reaaaaaaaaally simple.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
It is fun to see Ed mentioned. The layout that I operate on has Tons of GSV cars and sections of the GSV on it including cars that ran on it. You can go into past articals and find phtos from the GSV and line them up with what is now on the LDRR. Like the people standing at the Hillside Depot waiting some 45 plus years now for a train to pick them up. Or the round house on the cover of MR - The circle Fish eye cover. etc.
The sections of Ed's GSV layout still have tac left in place like in Aptakisic from the MR article Aptakisic that Swinging Town.
We have the programing wheel the controls the entire operations with the thumb tacs - The drawing of it in that article is so much better than this chunk of wood in real life.
As it has been pointed out, you do get a hole in the top of any car that uses thumb tacs and if you look closely for the hole on the top of a car you will know that is a GSV car from Ed's layout. It was amusing a few weeks back I was switching out a car of Ed's that was on the cover of MR.
It is this Yellow Car - Athearn copied this model and released it in the Atheran line so you can get one similar to this yellow car. You can see the Tacs in the photo and that is a working hump yard from 1972.
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Neil and Dave - Thanks again! Pretty cool and AMAZINGLY fast. I kinda wish I'd have known about this and tried it before putting all the effort into a more finished system. It looks FUN!! (I'm all about fun.)
Michael - Superintendent and Chief Engineer View My Blogs
I've been using a similar system on my N scale setup. It involves QR codes, those strange looking black and white squares filled with dots and small rectangles. Most smart phones can use QR code (and bar code) scanners to retrieve the information from the graphic image. I use that info to query the STS (Shipper-driven Traffic Simulator) software to find out what's in the car, where it's going, etc...
I attached the tabs to the cars using a small dot of the same adhesive that is used on 3M's Post-It notes. They stay put until I want to take them off for photos or maintenance. They come off easily and don't leave any residue.
Since N scale reporting marks can sometimes be hard to read, I also print them on the tab as well. This has the added benefit of allowing me to use a lot of cars that have the same reporting marks right away, instead of having them sit in a box until I get around to re-decaling them. Here's a photo of one of a fleet of Rock Island box cars that I picked up at a flea market that all have the same reporting marks.
Since the QR codes do require a certain amount of white space around the graphic image, I'm still experimenting to see how small the tab can be and still be picked up by the scanner. The scanner on my smartphone can pick up a QR code as small as 3/8" but there are probably better ones out there now.
Tom Edwards
N scale - C&NW/M&StL - Modeling the C&NW's Alco Line
HO scale - Running on the Minnesota Central (Roundhouse Model RR Club, St. James, MN)
12" to the foot - Member of the Osceola & St. Croix Valley crew (Minnesota Transportation Museum)
@Tom - I also have been trying QR codes as they can contain a lot of information or point to a web address. Ideally the car routing program could be updated this way but it is still a pita to scan something this small. Below I added a W1 to indicate the industry and spot. It is semi-transparent so does not prevent the smart and phone from reading the code.
Rail Baron = "Monopoly" on rails - Just about wore the board out it was played that frequently with a group of modelling friends over an extended period in times past.
Comments
Not a fan of ops.
<GASP>
But I'm not... not really... I mean, I could be, but, my own layout is small, and simple, and depicts a movie studio, so the ops wouldn't be anything like a prototypical railroad.
My ops consist of what looks right for the "director".
"I need the Connie for this scene, pulling passenger cars, coming in from the southern side of the station (lighted side), and having it pulling out of the station facing east"
Okay... so the Connie is parked on the siding behind two other engines, and two cars, and facing the wrong way... the passenger cars are behind a switcher, over on the northern track... so the fun is figuring it out for the scene.
But hardly prototype railroad ops, as there is no "main run", and only a few engines, and cars being moved at any given time. No paperwork... no car cards...
Now, why am I not a fan of prototypical ops?
I've never done it before. I'm not a member of a club... my home layout is too small to really invite people over for an ops session, and there's really nowhere to do ops. I asked in a posting here about local San Diego people, and never got a single response, and I'm not as outgoing as I sem to be, so i never got around to asking around at the local shop.
So I know nothing about ops, and the few articles online I've found, and books I perused at the library seemed a bit like stereo instructions to me, and I lost interest rather quickly. (though the TOMA ops session on TMTV sparked my interest a bit)
That said, whether or not I'm a fan of ops, takes nothing away from my joy of modeling. Building, assembling, and running trains. I would like a "roundy round", but my space limits me to a point to point, so I have fun with what I have.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Maybe, someday, I'll go to an ops session, have so much fun, that I'll get into ops... but, one of the joys of this hobby, is if I start to get bored (which rarely happens) i discover a new aspect, and am excited all over again.
Ops sessions is one of those secrets waiting to be discovered.
But for now... it rally doesn't interest me... because it's not something I have ever done.
Have you checked out the San Diego Model Railroad Museum?
I know that the La Mesa club does ops on their Tehachapie layout. I think the San Diego Model Railroad Club that built the Cariso (spelling)Gorge layout at the museum may also do some sort of ops as well.
not a fan of ops - executive summary
"I don't know anything about ops, so I'm not a fan."
Really now.
Scott Chatfield
Did it for a living. Still finds it fascinating.
Yep... really.
It opens the door to when I do learn more about ops, I just may become a fan.
I like open doors.
I probably was born in a barn...
San Diego Model Railroad Museum... I do try to get there once a month (though I missed going the past couple of months due to illness) and there's a guy that's part of the club there that invites me back stage to help with things from time to time... the folks there are really friendly.
At the risk of sounding like a heretic
At the risk of sounding like a heretic, it seems as though an easy way to introduce basic car movements would be the use of tabs on cars.
The pluses are several 1) cheap and easy to use, 2) very simple to set up, 3) flexible, 4) introduces car movements, 5) simple to explain, 6) easy to expand, 7) prototypical.
Negative is that it ain’t visually appealing.
Look at the positives. Chanel stock with a marker identifies the industry on one side and another, or mty (return to yard) on the other. Some use painted or colored labels with a number or letter to match the industry or spot.
Make only the ones you want to route. The tank or coal hopper may not need them if it’s obvious where they go. Same with the refers. Want to route a car somewhere else (say an mty is need at the furniture factory)? Make another tab and switch it out.
The owner can set up the picks and drops before an operating session by flipping the tabs. This can be at random, use a Switchlist app, or a roll of the die. Spot those in your train based on the tab and pick up those with tabs noting a new location. Those cars with tabs that match the current location stay.
Our prototype may have staples the routing info right to the car side or makes with chalk so the tabs needn’t be huge. On larger scales, such as my On30 cars, a small magnet glued to the inside of the care might hold a smaller, less obtrusive tab. It really is only a reminder of the destination as one grows more comfortable with routing the cars. A switchlist can be provided to the more experienced operator.
Rather use car cards? The tabs are the same thing so use them to make a few. Use a black card template and note the routing and suggest some contents. Use some envelopes to match, labeled as the freight car, to insert the “waybill” into the car. Some use clear pockets such as the type for collectibles - baseball cards for example. Tape them to an index card with the car info or simply use a pre-printed label on the pocket.
These are just some thought to help clear the mist. Taking away the random movement of cars adds a lot of fun to running - operating - the layout. It doesn’t have to be hard to understand or set up.
Neil Erickson, Hawai’i
My Blogs
A way to introduce ops
I forgot all about this until today. Avalon Hill put out a game called B&O/C&O where you and your opponent dispatched trains with things like situation cards to inhibit movement. It was supposedly very authentic and perhaps one could learn some dispatching from it. I have the game, it was my father's he played it a few times with my older brothers but it takes a long time to setup and play. I must dig it out and have a look at it. More info here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1537/cobo
GregW66
tabs on cars
Two local friends have been using tabs on their cars for years. One is HO and the other N. Both use Plastruc channel stock wide enough to fit over a running board. One side has a town-industry code (black letters on white background) and the other is painted a color that corresponds to the reverse route interchange. It does make sorting in a yard go quicker.
Personally I don't like them from the appearance standpoint. Makes it really obvious I'm looking at a model, not a model of a real train, because real trains don't have honkin' big pieces of I-beam sitting on the roof. And it seems to promote laziness, since both layout owners usually just flip the tabs, sending the same cars back to the same industries over and over.
So I'd use it as a way to introduce car-forwarding to a layout or group of operators, not as a permanent system.
And please, do not confuse car-fowarding systems with train management systems (TT&TO, manual block, CTC, TWC, etc). Two different things. And you can have one without the other depending on the layout. For instance, the guy who wants to just build a yard to have fun switching his freight car fleet does not need a train management system. A layout that only features passenger trains might not need a car fowarding system. But most layouts need both.
Scott Chatfield
Personally I don't like them
Real trains are not 4" long and are not way under 12oz either...
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Tabs and such
I'm not a fan of tabs on the tops of cars, and I have run on layouts that had them. If you go to the trouble of weathering and scenery, the tabs look downright silly. You might as well just run stock equipment and have everything a Plywood Central if you're gonna do that.
That's a very interesting concept. How interesting would this be, running a 'movie' train (with modeled camera crew lineside) that everyone else has to work around? Hey, you can't run that stack train near there right now; they're shooting a remake of "Emperor of the North" at milepost 20!"
That, or an excursion train. You could even put photo runby movements into the op session as well!
Lee
My Flickr website with layout photos
Avalon Hill
Wow, I hadn’t thought about that game for a long time. It’s been somewhere in the basement storage for a few decades. Now I’m going to have to find it.
You’re right. Those old board games were interesting, but they took a long time to set up. I wonder how many were ever played more than a few times.
GS
Avalon Hill's first railroad game Dispatcher
In the early days there was Dispatcher from Avalon Hill. I played it a few times with my brother. I don't know how realistic it was, but it sure was detailed. Even down to having collisions if you made a mistake. The challenge was getting all the passenger trains and scheduled freights through on time while also getting the extras through. It's been a long time, but I think there was even a mountain district that required helpers.
Paul
Squad Leader...
Squad Leader was Avalon Hill's best game. Used to play that quite a bit, back when I actually had free time in multi-hour segments over several days in a row. I miss that. Next time I have that kind of time somebody will probably be changing my diapers and I won't have the dexterity to manipulate those die-cut paper counters. They did produce a lot of cool games back in the day.
Randy
B&O/PC Cincinnati West, Summer 1975
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/17997
Dispatcher
From what I read, C&O/B&O was based on Dispatcher.
GregW66
Train Dispatcher 2
The best dispatching game/simulator I saw was "Train Dispatcher 2" by SignalCC. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be compatible with the more modern MS operating systems. It was so realistic I didn't play it because it was too much like work.
It was replaced by "Train Dispatcher 3", but I never tried that.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
Iron men and wooden cars.
Visit my website : https://wnbranch.com/
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Tabs or Cards vs Scheduling or Sequences
@Scott - Exactly my point. Tabs could be an easy way to introduce freight car forwarding and lead easily to creating car cards if desired. I’m glad you mentioned N scale as the tabs provide a quick way to see the routing or blocking of a specific car at a glance. Reading car numbers in any scale can be challenging.
Yes, I agree that the tabs can be visually distracting (maybe even silly) but the tabs needed look out of place. Lee - you may to consider something as I described above where a simulated chalk mark on the side of the car would point your operators to the industry. This has been on my mind for some time so will have to give it a try and post some examples. I operate alone so the trains run in sequence and the switchlist is adequate for moving 4-5 car trains. If I were to have someone join me the tabs will make explaining the “game” a lot simpler.
Neil Erickson, Hawai’i
My Blogs
Tabs
Yes tabs look odd. But as a device for starting operations they are very useful. For a modular group they are ideal because they are not car specific, you don't have to bring "car cards" or worry about somebody walking off with them in their pocket.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
Iron men and wooden cars.
Visit my website : https://wnbranch.com/
Blog index: Dave Husman Blog Index
"Yes tabs look odd. But as a
They'd make great BB gun target practice.....DaveB
Read my blog
Games and Tabs
I have Squad Leader, and I agree, it's an awesome game. I had a buddy who would play, probably 20 years ago, but since he moved away no one is willing. There are a LOT of rules, and I think I only got through the first 25 pages or so. But what a fun game!
My wife is still talking about that trip to Hawaii. And since we both know Switchlist, you'll hardly even have to train me.
Michael - Superintendent and Chief Engineer
View My Blogs
Tabs in Detail
Can someone describe the tabs-on-cars system in more detail? I'm curious about it. I know I read about it somewhere a long time ago.
Michael - Superintendent and Chief Engineer
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Mark Dance - Tabs on Cars
Search for Mark Dance videos on YouTube. He’s done several videos on how he operates his layout. He’s also written several articles.
GS
Tab on Cars
Michael:
1st - Contact off list re: Hawaii!
Tabs are just a very simple for of a waybill that rides with the car instead of in a car pocket. If my memory serves me it was Ed Ravenscott who wrote about the method in MR (years ago) and used by John Allan. Lynn Wescott also wrote a follow up to Ed’s article(s) that added additional color to the “tabs” similar to John’s method.
Essentially a tab is often a pice of “H” plastic (or wide flange material in engineering language) wide enough to fit over the top of a roof walk and that is cut to about 3/4” long. It is painted either one or two colors, one dominant, and may have a number or letter applied to each side to identify the industry or spot. John and Lynn liked using colored washers that set on a small tack sticking out of the tops of cars. (This seemed somewhat like another thing for me to get stabbed with ...)
Just like a car card, the conductor would look at the tab facing up and use the dominant color to block the car in the train toward that destination. Yellow might be Ashley Creek with a Red end indicating it is coming from Nicholas Landing. If this is a loaded hopper car then the two colors may be enough information to forward the car. A letter or number can be added for a specific location once it reaches AC. Once there, like car cards, it can be spotted and held until the next session to flip the tab for a new route (usually back to where it came from) so might be Red with a Yellow end.
Mark Dance wrote in MRH about his fabulous N scale layout routing system here: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16562
The use of a program such a SwithList seems a natural way to provide some help choosing which tabs to flip (or apply) so new crew members don’t need to read the car numbers and try to match them up with those on the layout. When taking a train out on the road it may simply have an entire block of Yellow tabs to drop at the next yard. While there, a track with cars going in the same direction have tabs that show they need to go from where they are (small color) to where they need to go (large color). The owner or yardmaster simply points out the cars to be added or has a switcher tack them on, replaces the caboose, and the train moves to the next destination.
It is honestly more work to type it out than do it! The nice thing is that we can start out with a few pieces of plastic channel and a Sharpie or colored markers. Use your switch list to mark the destination and set it on the roof walk. Each time you run some trains add some more until you are routing cars. In the words of Frank Ellison “Now you’re really living, man!”
Neil Erickson, Hawai’i
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Examples
Here are a couple of examples. The first is an HO Box that I used because my Plastruct C channel fit over the roof walk nicely. The colors are just some electrical tape that was on my workbench.
Here is a 30’ On30 boxcar with a small piece of sheet steel added to the side of the car and held with a magnet. I couldn’t find a white Prismacolor pencil this morning to add markings. A white out pen didn’t do well (lol).
This experiment is ongoing as I don’t always want to add or remove tabs for photos and the “chalkboard” idea appeals to me.
Neil Erickson, Hawai’i
My Blogs
Tabs
Tab on car uses some sort of marker on top of a car to indicate its destination. There are many types. Paper slips, thumbtacks, washers, a piece of tin (magnet in the car), a magnet (piece of steel in the car), H column, self stick labels (low tack), etc.
Normally coding is by color, some also add a letter or number designation. Complexity depends on the specificity of the routing (specific cars on specific spots vs appropriate car at appropriate industry) and the number of destinations.
On a really big layout decoding the color/number/letter combinations can be a barrier and many people object to modifying the cars (holes, pins, magnets) and the visual impact of the tag.
The benefit is its a really simple way to start operation quickly and at low cost. Go raid the kid's construction paper stash and cut 1" squares of several colors, then a bigger square or rectangle of each color. Fold the 1" squares in half to make little "tents". Put the big squares on or by each of the industries and put a tent on each each car in the train or yard. Put a white tent on the cars at industry to be pulled and taken back to the yard. Switch by color.
Or just use white tents and put a letter or number on the tag and slips of paper with the letter or number next to the industries.
Or just make white tents and put the car type, station, industry spot on the tents (using codes as necessary) and put them on the cars in the yard or train and switch by the written designation.
Or just make little white tents and put a white tent on the cars at industry to be pulled, then replace them with the same car type from the train (or other appropriate car).
For a small switching layout you could probably make an operating system in less than an hour with a sheet of white paper, a marker and a pair of scissors.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
Iron men and wooden cars.
Visit my website : https://wnbranch.com/
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Quick
Just to give you an idea how easy tag on car can be, I took a sheet of paper and cut little squares, put letters on them, made industry tags, went downstairs and put them on an industry area and a cut of cars (cars in the train go to the lettered industries, cars at industry with a "Y" get pulled). My previous post was at 10:32 am and this post was about 10:47 am, so it took me a little over 15 minutes to make an operating system, set up an operating session, take pictures of it and tell you about it. Tag on car is reaaaaaaaaally simple.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
Iron men and wooden cars.
Visit my website : https://wnbranch.com/
Blog index: Dave Husman Blog Index
Ed Ravenscroft
It is fun to see Ed mentioned. The layout that I operate on has Tons of GSV cars and sections of the GSV on it including cars that ran on it. You can go into past articals and find phtos from the GSV and line them up with what is now on the LDRR. Like the people standing at the Hillside Depot waiting some 45 plus years now for a train to pick them up. Or the round house on the cover of MR - The circle Fish eye cover. etc.
The sections of Ed's GSV layout still have tac left in place like in Aptakisic from the MR article Aptakisic that Swinging Town.
We have the programing wheel the controls the entire operations with the thumb tacs - The drawing of it in that article is so much better than this chunk of wood in real life.
As it has been pointed out, you do get a hole in the top of any car that uses thumb tacs and if you look closely for the hole on the top of a car you will know that is a GSV car from Ed's layout. It was amusing a few weeks back I was switching out a car of Ed's that was on the cover of MR.
It is this Yellow Car - Athearn copied this model and released it in the Atheran line so you can get one similar to this yellow car. You can see the Tacs in the photo and that is a working hump yard from 1972.
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Fake Model Railroader, subpar at best.
Providing no usable information or value to this or any conversation.
Can not spell, has limited writing skills and failed reading comprehension.
Most post contain a great deal of snark, A true indication off no education and well below average intelligence.
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Thanks!
Neil and Dave - Thanks again! Pretty cool and AMAZINGLY fast. I kinda wish I'd have known about this and tried it before putting all the effort into a more finished system. It looks FUN!! (I'm all about fun.)
Michael - Superintendent and Chief Engineer
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Tabs on cars
I've been using a similar system on my N scale setup. It involves QR codes, those strange looking black and white squares filled with dots and small rectangles. Most smart phones can use QR code (and bar code) scanners to retrieve the information from the graphic image. I use that info to query the STS (Shipper-driven Traffic Simulator) software to find out what's in the car, where it's going, etc...
I attached the tabs to the cars using a small dot of the same adhesive that is used on 3M's Post-It notes. They stay put until I want to take them off for photos or maintenance. They come off easily and don't leave any residue.
Since N scale reporting marks can sometimes be hard to read, I also print them on the tab as well. This has the added benefit of allowing me to use a lot of cars that have the same reporting marks right away, instead of having them sit in a box until I get around to re-decaling them. Here's a photo of one of a fleet of Rock Island box cars that I picked up at a flea market that all have the same reporting marks.
Since the QR codes do require a certain amount of white space around the graphic image, I'm still experimenting to see how small the tab can be and still be picked up by the scanner. The scanner on my smartphone can pick up a QR code as small as 3/8" but there are probably better ones out there now.
Tom Edwards
N scale - C&NW/M&StL - Modeling the C&NW's Alco Line
HO scale - Running on the Minnesota Central (Roundhouse Model RR Club, St. James, MN)
12" to the foot - Member of the Osceola & St. Croix Valley crew (Minnesota Transportation Museum)
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Sqd Ldr Great Game
yes a great game. ultimately played on 3" foam hexes with terrain, stacked, perfect for line of sight arguments.
small metal vehicles and squads. what fun!!
bill
QR Codes
@Tom - I also have been trying QR codes as they can contain a lot of information or point to a web address. Ideally the car routing program could be updated this way but it is still a pita to scan something this small. Below I added a W1 to indicate the industry and spot. It is semi-transparent so does not prevent the smart and phone from reading the code.
Neil Erickson, Hawai’i
My Blogs
Another Avalon Hill
Rail Baron = "Monopoly" on rails - Just about wore the board out it was played that frequently with a group of modelling friends over an extended period in times past.
Regards,
John Garaty
Unanderra in oz
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