Cad drawing

Randy:

There is a program called Cute PDF Writer and It is a free download. When you get ready to print your AutoCad document choose that as your printer. It will give you a pdf document.  Be forewarned you usually need to pick the larger paper sizes. If you use the smaller paper sizes it usually produces an unreadable drawing.

Thanks...

Let's see if this works.  

PDF

The original post from May 21, 2014 that began this ongoing saga:  

I apologize for the fuzzy picture. I have a hard time converting from AutoCAD to something that can be seen here. Anyway, this is my plan for benchwork and I want to build a small portion as a test but would like to hear your opinion before I start cutting and welding.  The supporting structure will be 1" square steel tubing, on top of that on each of the three levels will be 3/4" plywood.  On top of the plywood on the staging level will be 1/4" rubber flooring, on the other two working levels the plywood will be topped with 1" foam insulation.  

I have 12" between the staging surface and the bottom of the first deck, all the decks are about 18" deep. I have 15 1/4" between the bottom of the 1" support for the upper deck and the top of the foam of middle deck. The decks are at 30", 42" and 60" from the floor.  I am considering raising the top deck about 2 1/2" to get more clearance.  I think I like the middle deck at 42".  I also think the clearance for staging is sufficient and I don't think I want that deck any lower than it is.

What do you think?     

Thanks! 

Randy

- It seems to be working so far.  

Your PDF works good. 

Your PDF works good.  Suggestion make a short test mockup and double check to see if you can reach the back of any level with FASCIA installed, check for BELLY and HEAD clearances.  We used wall brackets for our second deck and so far it has worked out.  Russ

Russ, I like your approach to

Russ, I like your approach to hanging on the wall.  What are you using to secure it to the wall though?  I see some bolts going horizontal to the wall, is there a piece of angle iron on the other side?

The greater the spread

The greater the spread between working decks (non-staging) the more I like it, remember you will lose some visual space with fascia.  And you'll want the fascia to come down far enough to hide lighting.  I'm 5' 9" and a top deck of 60" works well for me.  You might want to lower your first deck to 40 inches, with narrow decking along walls, for staging you don't need 12" unless the track is going to be quite deep.  LED strip lighting reduces the need for wider fascia.

" is there a piece of angle

" is there a piece of angle iron"  Yep and 3/8 inch lag screws into the studs.  The brackets are cabinet grade 3/4 inch ply.  You can hang on the brackets!   Russ

Deck mock-up

A funny thing happened while I was working on a mock-up of the decks.  As I was looking at them, I noticed my current layout off to the side and almost exactly centered between my upper and lower decks.  I got out my tape and checked it, and sure enough the top of my current layout is dead center of these two decks.  I guess I wound up compromising around the height that I am used to, or what feels pretty ideal to me.  You can see it in this photo.  

Randy

Here is the view of the

Here is the view of the middle deck as seen from my viewpoint standing.  The tall smokestack to the left is taller than anything that would be on this level, and I can still see the top.  This seems ok to me.  

Upper Deck

This is a view of the upper deck from my viewpoint standing.  This might be a little problematic, as it is difficult to see the cars on the rear tracks.  I like the height as far as viewing, but can see where it might be hard to work a yard at this height.  It is 60" off the floor.  What do you think?  

Thanks for your input. 

Randy

it might be hard to work a yard

You can always have a little step/box for working on the yard or whatever.  Slide it out of the way when not in use.  We will have four of those when we get the upper deck running (next year!).  Your mock up is looking good, you'll be glad you took the time to do it.  Russ

60" is a liitle high

I stand 5'11 and 60" is a little to high for me to work a yard. If it is just a main line or a single siding; that may work, but not for a yard.  The step/box idea may work, but I was always concerned about tripping or falling. Does the yard have to go on the top shef?

I did some mock ups using a bookshelf with adjustable shelves and found 56" is the highest I can go and still be able to effective switching.  I also found that 40 is about as low as I want to go.  At 16", this does not leave a lot of room between deck, especially considering the upper deck will be about 3" thick min.

This is why I am not a big fan of the multi-deck layout, but I completely understand the usefulness of one.  If I was to build a multi-deck I would seriously consider a mushroom design.   

Art 

Eye level switching

The height of the yard should not be an issue for switching, as long as you lose the mentality that you should have a helicopter to see what you're doing.  Real yards are operated by people from ground level, so there's no reason you can't do it from eye level.  Commonly, crews will pull a cut out of a track so they can see what's in it and get the standing order for switchlists; all you have to do is do the same.  They almost never go hunting through a yard looking for one particular car--that's a hugely ineffective way of working a yard.

What I did on my first level

What I did on my first level can be done on a second level at 60 inches, I'll post a pic below of a track plan that is roughly what I have now, its been modified over time.  I knew that even as my first level the track plan had to have easy access to turnouts.  So if you look at all the turnouts you'll notice they have easy access even though there is a large reversing loop with very limited access to the back track(s).  So how you place your track and turnouts can still make for a viable upper level yard. 

The steel tubing will work

The steel tubing will work fine. I built some that way, and also used shelf brackets, the double cleat type, and brackets, and put my box frame on top of this. I made standard 1x4 framing, with 1/4 luann (plywood) for top surface, but I glued strips of 1" wide luann in x pattern to the underside for rigidity. I wanted it to be a sectional layout, but lay cork and track as though it is normal layout.

having the box like framing, also provides a space to hide the lighting for the level below (using CFLs) and a place to run wiring so it doesn't show. I put 1/4" hardboard in 5" wide on lower level for facia, and will use 4" for the upper level.

One thing, is that so operators don't have to reach in, I am using cables to remote mount caboose industries ground throws at the front edge of the layout, so there won't be reaching in to set turnouts.

I know a lot of people hate uncoupling magnets, but a few places will have these (only in idustry sidings, so they don't have to try and reach into a difficult area to uncouple.

Regards,

Here's the proof of concept test...

I made up a couple of what I'm thinking of using for supports.  This is all 1" square tube.  The gussets are 1/4" flat, and I think I may eliminate them on the next pieces.  My plan is to use the vertical against the wall as a stud to which to attach my backdrop.  These supports are attached at the floor, and at two places to the poured concrete wall.  I think I'll put 1" foam insulation between them on the wall as both insulation and to help support the backdrop and keep it flat.  I'm going to get some plywood to put on these two to get a better feel for how it is going to work, but so far it looks pretty good to me.  Whaddyathink?

It feels good to just be building something for a change instead of always planning. 

Randy

The gusset is overkill

Good, sound welds will provide all the strength you need from 1" sq tubing.
You might consider going from fllor to ceiling so you can skip attaching to the cement walls. Just run a board along the joists to span between them - you can then place the support brackets at whatever spacing you deem required for the platform (benchwork) that has to span between them, If you mount the facia to the benchwork - it can act like a stiffener to the plywood (creates a T shape structure)

Are you planning some facia? Maybe 1/4" masonite/hardboard?

Looking good.

Here is link to my album with some construction shots

http://s379.photobucket.com/user/dti_nut/slideshow/DTI%20Home%20Division?sort=6

Rev 2 doesn't have gussets

I agree, the gussets were overkill. I made some more without them and I think they'll do fine. I will definitely have a fascia. I plan to use 1/4" masonite for that, about 3" in most places. My original plan was to mount to the floor joists above and concrete floor only, but then I noticed several spots where it would be difficult to get up into the floor joists due to a concrete lip at the top of the foundation so I held the supports to just below the joists and mounted to the wall. Installation is probably easier this way, I can just push the supports against the wall and tapcon them in.  It also makes taking the bit of bow in the supports out easy.

I'm thinking about running some 1" tube between the supports, parallel to the ground, and cutting down on the number of vertical supports needed. I think if I have one back against the wall, and another pretty close to the front it would support the plywood very well. I don't plan on any switch machines, so they only thing I'd have to worry about is feeder wire drops.  

Good-looking layout, thanks for the link.  

Randy

The first supports are up...

I got a few of the benchwork supports up today.  

The experiment continues...

I had to move the breaker box up and out of they way, but I made it to the corner with the brackets.  I broke down and followed the advice on here about using 3/4" high dollar birch plywood.  Of course, I immediately filled the staging level with junk to get it out of my way.  But, it seems to be working.  I plan to put 1" foam insulation between the uprights, and then run masonite over that for the backdrop.  I've got 15' of three levels up.  

I agree

My last layout was a dual-deck layout. I built it so the lower deck was around 40", which btw was great for my kids. And the upper deck was 56". Much higher and it was too high.

John

Real yards are operated by

Yes, but in real rail yards they can also walk between the tracks when they need to.

John

You can also pull the track

You can also pull the track contents onto the switching lead. The train would run at about 10 miles per hour and the man walking would go at about three miles per hour. The crewman on the ground at the switch could list the cars on the track much faster that way.

Finally, some track...

After two years of planning and researching, it sure feels good to actually put down some track.  Even if it is just a few pieces on top of my paper plans.  Printed out a portion of the track plan, an area I just re-drew after talking with a guy that actually did the switching there, and put it down where it will go on my upper deck.  Pretty exciting to finally see a bit of the plan sort of taking shape. 

Randy

Peninsula base...

Got the framework for the middle peninsula base all welded up and painted.