Like many arguments about what really is "model railroading" that occur from time to time, I think people need to take a step back from their personal view of what model railroading is.  The more people you have interested in a hobby, the more products and advancements in technology there will be.  If people do op sessions over the internet, they are still into model trains.  I suggest its better to have "modelers" with varying interests in the hobby than to try and box the hobby into some pre-defined notion of what it is and exclude those that don't fit your perspective of the hobby.  

If people love trains and want to simply operate someone else's layout over the internet to start out with, I'd suggest that's a boon rather than a negative.  Like most things, once you get a taste of it, most of us will become more engaged with the different aspects of the hobby over time.  If someone got their start by being a virtual operator with nothing of their own at home, so what?  Most likely they will eventually want their own setup, too.  So while, initially, you may think the virtual operator adds little or nothing to the hobby, eventually I believe they would likely become more involved.  Again, its capturing the attention of people about the hobby that matters.  Get their attention, get them in and let them discover how great it is.  Marketing 101. 

LKandO,

I've been following the discussion and developments on the JMRI yahoo group (Java Model Railroad Interface). 

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmriusers/

There has been successful use of remote operation using JMRI programming and interface with RailDriver control stands at a remote room from the layout, using a video camera on-board to provide a "tracks-ahead" view for the operator via a computer monitor.  Realistic and prototypical signalling (ABS, APB, CTC) is already a part of JMRI, so the engineer can follow signals, see the track, and has radio communication (or skype, or team-speak, or...) with those in the layout room and other places. 

 Current development of network wide and then web operation is happening.  It's all pretty exciting. 

Wait until my sons find out they can control DCC model railroads with their Wii; we just might have a paradigm-shift in use of leisure time at our home.  (I've got to get some track laid).

 If someone got their start by being a virtual operator with nothing of their own at home, so what?  Most likely they will eventually want their own setup, too.  So while, initially, you may think the virtual operator adds little or nothing to the hobby, eventually I believe they would likely become more involved.

Dave is right in this comment:  I'm living proof.  The only reason I'm in the hobby is that I got back into railroading as an interest through Microsoft Train Simulator.  It re-sparked my interest in trains and one thing led to another and I'm here...

I'm FAR, far from saying that virtual model railroading is a bad thing. I actually think it's kinda neat! Sure takes up a lot less room, AND you could potentially model an division of a railroad or railroad system (and yes, to "scale") Where else but an aircraft hanger and with the bank account of Warren Buffet (and oh yeah, the crew to help you build it) are you gonna get that? Maybe a club might get you close, but I think the era of the "great model railroad club" is not as large as it used to be, either, though certainly not dead by any means. And doing it virtualy lets you do it your way, with no club full of other people's opinions. Neat, I say!

So yes, it's awesome and definitely a "good thing" for the hobby, especially for the kids of today. It's not model railroading in the traditional sense, but that's OK, too - it's still trains! I guess it will be quite a while before V-Modeling gets it's rightful place in the hobby, but so did a lot of other things we take for granted today (hmm, comand control, anyone? Egads! who'd want that?!?).

I think the major "concern" is the lack of the social FACE-TO-FACE aspect of the hobby, and the joy of creating something with your hands - Does typing code and clicking a mouse count as "with your hands"? I dunno about that one!

RAH

I’ll throw my 2 cents in here, some of which has already been mentioned

Thanks for the link. I applied. Awaiting conf msg. Will be very interesting to follow along. Thanks.

I'm a train gamer too, which is part of the problem with getting off my behind and modeling.  I still play Railroad Tycoon and Railroads by Sid Meiers, and I use Auran Trainz to build dream layouts...no worries. [smile]

...and back to the hands-on realm.  While the e-book/digital reader phenomenon is sweeping the country and going like gangbusters, I don't think hands-on, print libraries are dead yet.  Digital archiving is subject to massive loss unless backed-up in multiple locations in at least two formats, as demonstrated by the the recently deceased Model Train Magazine Index.  We don't want our civilization to go the route of Alexandria.  We know about the ancient world because of the hard-copies they left in stone.  Paper, unless kept in a dry place, just doesn't hold up to the ravages of time.  Digital archiving gives us the terrible opportunity to wipe away terabytes of knowledge with a well aimed sledge hammer.  Redundancy and resiliance must be our call signs as we advance into the digital age - that means hard copies, somewhere safe...like the NMRA library*(ies).

Now to the questions at hand.  Call me old fashioned, but I've been in the hobby just over twenty years and have been with it rather steadily all that time through high school, college & grad school, through marriage and into family life.  I absolutely agree with the comment about RTR making possible a rich experience of the hobby during times in which other interests compete.  I have layed some hand-laid track because I wanted the experience, and this same desire got me into scratchbuilding and kitbashing.  But for my current layout I'm buying good old Atlas flex track - code 83, brown ties, nice spike & tie plate detail.  How nice to have a choice and not be stuck with code 100 on black ties OR lay by hand.  I have some ME code 83 that really looks great but will still buy the Atlas track because it's easier to work with and cheaper.

While the hobby has gotten increasingly hi-tech, and yes, I use DCC and modern materials, there is still room for the neo-Luddites among us who like working with non-laser-cut wood, cardstock, brass, paper, etc.  I started the kitbashing_ho_structures Yahoo group to promote that aspect of the hobby and have not been all that diligent in spurring discussion but recently have begun to do just that.  I also agree with the person who wrote about the human connection.  I've been attending a monthly local NMRA 'clinic' and even connected with Kevin Klettke of W&N fame at the last gathering.  How nice to have a face to face chat as well as to see models up close and personal.  It's a different experience than scrutinizing pixels or chatting via email.

A challenge the hobby faces?  Easy - covering the modern era AND the steam era AND the civil war era AND the transition era AND...you get the idea.  There are so many different eras of railroading to model, if a person can choose just one! and there are folks modeling in so many different periods.  The magazines of the 40's and 50's covered steam era modeling just fine since a trip down to the roundhouse was still possible.  Now that fewer folks are experiencing live steam first hand the number of steam era modelers may decline as a result.  How does a magazine cover the broad spectrum of modeling interests across time?  I think MRH is doing an admirable job so far, recognizing that not everyone will be interested in every era, but exposure to these different modeling periods can spur interest in somebody who may not have lived during that time to explore and research and learn.  Learning is fun, right?  The internet certainly makes learning possible on a scale unheard of before now.

As for kitbashing & scratchbuilding...well, let's just say a few projects are in the works as I type this...I'm noticing on this forum folks asking for that sort of instruction/inspiration.  I'm working on it!

Galen

My 6-year old has asked for an N-scale steam engine for Christmas.  Dad (me) built him a small layout last year for his room and supplied some of my old N-scale trains, er, Santa brought them, that is.  Since then he has acquired more equipment and I've been converting the older rapido couplers to knuckle couplers occasionally with the intention of getting his entire fleet converted by next year.  If he's still with it in a few years time I'll get him into operations.  The layout I built is a loop with a passing track, two yard tracks and two spurs (facing points) so it's hopefully a good test bed for operations when that time comes.  Another power pack (he's still DC), some Atlas selectors, and a few insulated rail joiners and we'd be in business!

All that to say I got online to look for a reasonably priced steamer.  I know they've come a long way since I had N scale 20+ years ago.  I ordered a little Bachmann 0-6-0, er, Santa is bringing him one, and I naturally spent a good half hour 'testing' it on his layout while he was at school and wow is it nice.  It's already knuckle coupler equipped and well detailed.

But working in N scale again after so many years has brought to mind a mini-revelation.  BB or Shake-the-box kits is such an HO-centric idea.  Some folks mourn their loss while for N scalers that's just not even on the radar.  What N scale kits there are are resin or brass craftsman type kits.  I have assembled and added detail to many Athearn, MDC, etc. kits and enjoyed it.  However, N scalers just go to the store and come home with a brand new car, plunk it on the track and run it.  I can see, from that perspective, where RTR HO rolling stock is coming in line with N scale.  Hmmm...

The other idea is that of Fathers and Sons passing on a hobby legacy.  My Dad helped me build my first layout, at least the benchwork and some trackwork.  A challenge we face today is encouraging families to participate in the hobby together.  Folks are looking for something they can do together and often it's a Day Out With Thomas event.  Is there some way MRH or the NMRA can promote this more?  I know MR or RMC has occasionally printed a photo and letter of some classroom train project.  Did the World's Greatest Hobby campaign ever amount to much or was it just slick PR for the MRIA?

Galen

The biggest change I have seen is the quality of a lot of stuff, when I first started if you let a small engine just sit on the tracks for 6 months or more and then tried to start it, good luck, now no problem, of course cleaning the track helps for smooth operation but just the fact that you can have it run at all is great (see I started in the 60's). As far as other comments, DCC may or may not be the future, most of the stuff I have is dcc compatible but I still run DC as it is only me. People commented on how expensive the hobby can be, there has always been the high end and the second hand for the newbies. I never did the blue-box because the details were not there and were harder to add, but I did do MDC extensively. You could but MDC cars with individual grabs and throw away the staples that came with and put in better grabs and a better break-wheal and have a nice looking car, even by today's standard although to days are far more detailed, I have a vast collection of today's RTR but the old MDC look great next to them (of course they are properly built). Best yet for the newbie these kits are still available in vast quantities only caveat being you might not be able to but the road name you are after but you can fix that.