Valued Opinions
Okay model railroad planners, here is the basic request: I need your opinion/comments on a design for a new layout for my new home railroad starting construction in January.
Basic Info:
HO Scale Code 83 track
U-shaped 16’x14’x16’
Tortise and hand throw switches
Digitrak power and throttles
Nickel Plate Road 1940 – 1950’s theme
Steam and early diesel power
My dilemma is whether to have an out-and-back starting from staging and a turntable on one end with a return loop on the other given some passing sidings, or continuous running with return loops on both ends.
The layout I envision can be operated by just me (switching and “local” trains) and occasional operating sessions with 3-5 individuals. There will be no CTC nor planned operating signals. I plan on using switching lists and written train orders on cards for each freight or passenger train from staging.
Thoughts? Looking for input. Limited budget. Big on detailed scenery and customers for the railroad. This will be my last and “dream” layout as this is my retirement home.
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Chester Valley only pt to pt
Down side to the Chester Valley RR above is no continuous running option.
I'd definitely go with a folded dog-bone. You could have two 5.5 foot wide lobes at each end allowing up to 32 inch radius balloon tracks and still have a decent 3 foot wide gap to walk through into the U shaped area. Those lobes will narrow down after the turn backs allowing for a wider center area.
.
Jim Fitch
northern VA
Dream
If its your "dream" layout, then what is YOUR dream? I can give you my dream, but the only one who knows your dream is you. What do you want? Do you want to "run trains" or just switch cars? Do you want a lot of trains staged so you can crank up a train any time you want? Do you conceive of you equipment as "trains" or is it "cars for industries"? When you see an ad for a new railcar, do you think, "I want to have an auto parts plant and that would be good to serve that plant." or do you think, "That would look really cool in my priority manifest train."?
What type of terrain do you want to model? With NKP, I am assuming more flatland than mountains. Are you wanting single main track or two main tracks? Are you wanting local switching (train runs between A and Z, switches A, runs to B, switches B, runs to C, switches C, etc) or are you wanting more switching engine switching (train brings cars to yard, switch engine switches cars in and around that yard).
What are your preferences on staging? Hidden? Visible? Under the layout? Single ended (serves a yard) or double ended (allowing continuous runs).
General observations.
You have a 16x14 ft room, 224 square feet. Assuming a single deck layout, once through each scene, you will get about 55-65 feet of main track run. If you want a longer run then you will have to go around the room twice through the scene.
A 16x14 room is wide enough to have around the room with a peninsula down the center of the room (2 ft bench, 3 ft aisle, peninsula with two 2 ft benches, 3 ft aisle and a 2 ft bench). That will let you have a 27" radius blob at the end of the peninsula. A wider radius means narrower aisles past the blob or narrower benches along the wall. (this assumes the peninsula runs along the 16 ft axis)
If you go with a C shape layout, you can get two blobs with about 30-33" radius with a 24-30" opening between them. That puts you twice through each scene. You can have both visible or you can have the back one become your staging with several double ended sidings to hold trains. It can be "hidden" behind a low backdrop or a line of trees, buildings, low hills. Open on top but, hidden from normal viewing, it you stand on a step or low ladder you can see and reach over the view block.
Lots of stuff to think about.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
Iron men and wooden cars.
Visit my website : https://wnbranch.com/
Blog index: Dave Husman Blog Index
Footprint
Another footprint you might want to consider is an around the room layout with a yard and engine terminal on a peninsula down the middle of the room. You could have 2 ft benches on both sides, with a 24-36" peninsula with the yard/roundhouse and that would allow room for 3-4 ft aisles on either side, comfortable for the operators.
On the other hand a pure around the walls layout with just a 2 ft bench around the walls, would leave a large open space in the middle, enough for a desk/workbench and a couple chairs for visitors. If you want to assemble resin cars and do a lot of superdetailing for structures and equipment, having a nice, open work area might be a good thing (down side is if you are like me you would have a messy workbench in the middle of the room.)
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
Iron men and wooden cars.
Visit my website : https://wnbranch.com/
Blog index: Dave Husman Blog Index
Something to think about
When the Nickel Plate dieselized, it would knock out a division at a time. It was not common to see an RS3 on a local and a 2-8-2 the next day. They started with diesel switchers and passenger units
am I the only N Scale Pacific Electric Freight modeler in the world?
https://sopacincg.com
Continuous Running
Sometimes, it is fun to just sit back and watch a train run through some nice scenery.
I have an industrial type layout and most of my operating (or with a friend or two) comes from switching various industries and a car float, all (to be) generated by switch lists/car cards.
But I do have a return loop, so to speak, hidden behind the backdrop, to allow continuous running. I've been known to put a loco and a few cars on and just let it run and run, while I'm at the workbench across the room, or with the TV on to a ball game. Good way to make sure your rolling stock is bulletproof, too - try backing the train continuously around the loop!
Al Carter, Mount Vernon, WA
Options
Base center peninsula concept:
Make it all industrial branch, staging yard on one side, rest of the layout industrial lead, Blue line is a removeable liftout continuous run connection. For normal branch switching, its removed.
Put staging under one side and make the rest of the layout a gentle grade to upper level over the staging yard. Have two lift outs at the door. One that would be in for a connection to staging and the other would be a bridge connecting the upper end to the lower end and would have a steeper grade on a long viaduct, as a continuous running connection. I've drawn the viaduct and grade up to the bridge way too short, but it conveys the concept.
Dave Husman
Modeling the Wilmington & Northern Branch in 1900-1905
Iron men and wooden cars.
Visit my website : https://wnbranch.com/
Blog index: Dave Husman Blog Index
@ greg
What was that article from? I would like to read the rest of it. Thanks for posting it
Steve
Thanks
WOW! Ask for opinions and help and you get advice from friends you never knew you had. Many thanks to all for your continuing responses.
Here is more of what I am dealing with. First, I have a ton of track plans from MR, Pintrest and other sources and have 3 that I really like parts of to, hopefully, piece together. Final diagram should be posted for comment in January as we move on December 3rd and have a final walkaround scheduled for November 27th. (See diagram/photo below.)
The area I can use (other than my wife’s sewing and the storage area) is in the lower left of the diagram to the left and behind the “porch” which is not part of the basement. Layout wise, a “C” with a staging area in the alcove to the left of the “porch” is what I’m thinking. The alcove also contains my workbench. The staging will be 30” wide with 5 tracks, hand thrown switches and a runaround track. This area connects to the right 16’ leg of the layout on the “blob” of a return loop.
The NKP my dad and I worked for includes the main Cleveland yard at E.55th Street going East to a yard at Ivanhoe Road and then to the Euclid, OH yard going towards Conneaut. The Euclid Railroad extended in a “T” from the main line between Ivanhoe and Euclid going up a hill to Green Road and servicing a quarry and businesses there. Could be modeled in a peninsula.
Primarily a “double” from Euclid through Cleveland and connecting to several railroads (NYC, PENNSY, B&O and ACY) the NKP I was planning was a single track connecting the right 16’ through the back of the C (14’) and thence to the left 16’ leg of the layout incorporating passing tracks, sidings and small yard operations. Other than the two “blob” return loops at the ends of the 16’ legs, the layout plan was for 30” wide sections with only a few Tortise switches (wired for a return polarity loop to the single track main) and mainly hand throws.
I prefer to do detail with the kitbashed buildings I salvaged from my previous railroad. First will be to make sure all track is “bulletproof.” After track and wiring is done, ballast buildings and boxcars are added. We worked the 1940’s and 1950’s on the NKP and so modern era cars etc. will not be part of the railroad. Steam and early diesels till the N&W takeover will rule the high iron.
Will evaluate all your continuing comments and incorporate what I can do reasonably into my finalized diagram. (BTW, Charlie Kadyk, the spare bedroom with pullout is also my music room for my Blues guitar playing.)
Chief Operating Officer
The Greater Nickel Plate
Are you ready to deal with a duck under?
If you make blobs at the ends that allow a 30"-32" radius for continuous running, Mr Murphy will cause a train to derail in the back for what ever reason. Will you have access to rerail? If you put an access hatch in the center of the turnback loops, can you comfortably duck under to get to the middle to fix a derail? I would suggest an around the walls with a center peninsula and put a lift gate or swing gate in the doorway. If most of your use will be for switching the gate can be closed only when you want continuous running. A swing gate should swing around 180 degrees to allow it to be completely out of the way when left open. If you were going to leave it open a lot to do primarily switching, you might want a simple locking latch to keep it from swinging around in the way while left in the open position.
One last thought, if you are going to go with a gate to allow switching most of the time with the gate closed for occasional continuous running, you should incorporate some sort of bumper or blocking device to keep a train from going to the floor while the gate is open. The device could be as simple as a flap that would fold down when the gate is closed, but could flip up and lock in position when the gate is open.
I'll echo what most of the
I'll echo what most of the others have said as far as keeping it a nice, simple, around the walls. I'll also add a few other things.
(1) Keep your reach distances manageable, sixteen to twelve inches for the town and (yes this works, look at Tony Koster's layout) between town as little as eight to ten. if done right, it can convey the essence of what you're modeling with fewer scenery materials
(2) You can fit in both a continuous run and adequate staging reached via helix by having the mainline from the end of track drop the required 3 1/2 to 4 inches as it circles the modeling area. Put adequate, one-and-a-half time what you'll need (again, Tony Koster) underneath. The continuous run connection can then simply be disguised as an interchange track or another branch on one or both ends. Alternatively, you could also have two ran's down to staging, one each direction, and disguise under a tunnel or behind the backdrop.
(3) USE HEX FROG JUICERS!!! As a fellow steam nut, there's nothing more irritating than when that beautiful chugging sound stops every two seconds because of a dead frog.
And there you go, that's just my two cents. Well, three anyway.
Goose in The Caboose Productions - Railroad and Model train fanatic, superhero fan, and lover of historically accurate and well-executed sword fights.
Long live railroading and big steam!! And above all, stay train-crazy!!!
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