Have you thought of using LED's for lighting ?

I have but the cost would be too much and I already have enough florescent fixtures and I am on a pension.

Rather then replacing the lights, have you considered putting in a ventilation fan at head height or in the ceiling, to draw the heat out of the room?

venting would help but the logistics are a little difficult. I will think about it.

These are used as seen on a very large layout I have operated on.  Plenty of light without the power draw or heat.  I've seen them advertised for as little as $.50/foot.  Compare this to the purchase and operating cost of florescent fixtures and tubes, a solid case can be made for this technology.  Especially the ease of installation! 

Jeff Y

Jeff 

Erie Lackawanna Marion Div.

Dayton Sub 1964

So Jeff, do you have a lumen spec for those $.50 per foot LED strips?

Can they match the 3200 lumens I'm getting from a 32 watt, 4-foot, T8 fluorescent tube?

Or would multiple strips be needed?

On the photo you provide the LEDs are relatively close to the layout. Are they bright enough that an over-the-aisle ceiling mount would be feasible?

If they'd be brighter, cost less to operate, have a decent color temperature and color rendering index, and aren't too expensive to install I might invest in some of them. Especially for lighting Redland on my lower deck which still has screw type bulb lighting.

One other thing about LED lighting. It's dimmable using pulse width modulation. It can be both way cool to be able to go from day time to night time, but also a huge problem depending on the PWM frequency. Choose too low a frequency and it will mess with photography and especially video. The frequency needs to be at least several times the shutter speed being used. With video that's either 30fps or 60fps. With a still camera it can be 1/125th second. I'd guess a PWM speed of several kilo-hertz would be needed.

Brian,

I've noticed the temperature rises a bit during a BC&SJ op session. Sorry, I don't have a measurement for before session and mid-session temperature changes. However, I'm rather suspicious that the temperature rise has more to do with 12 to 16 bodies in the train dungeon than the lights.

There are 26 dual T8 fixtures in the train room for a total of 52 tubes and 1664 watts (for the lamps - the Triad ballasts are pretty efficient so I'm guessing less that 2000 watts total). If I leave all the lights on while I'm working on the layout, the temperature does rise, but nowhere near as much during an op session.

Since you have about 50% more tubes than I do, you have the potential for a lot more heat. If they are T12 tubes, that would be 40W per tube instead of 32W. If they're not good quality electronic ballasts, they'll waste more electrons, too.

Would a few window (box) fans help keep the air moving and the apparent temperature down during a session?

As you probably read in my web page on the great enlightenment of the BC&SJ, one of the big reasons for me to make the change was that lighting behind a valence tends to leave the parts of the layout close to directly under the valence (close to the aisle) quite dark - especially the vertical surfaces, such as the side of a box car or station.

FWIW

Charlie

Thank you for the feedback. I would use 24 2 tube fixtures and I would only need to buy 1 fixture. In addition most of my 2 tube fixtures are T8 with electronic ballast. I like the look of the Bear Creek and other layouts without a valance. The room has a back door and a window which could be used for venting. Most homes up here do not have air conditioning and mine does not. I have noticed the shadows you speak of from my valance lighting.

 I think I will move forward with the isle lighting plan.

 "I would use 24 2 tube fixtures and I would only need to buy 1 fixture."

Sounds like it would be worth a try since you can re-use all the parts. One other thing to consider  might be the trouble required to remove the lighting valences compared to the trouble required to install LED's in the existing valences?   I've always used florescent  shop light dual tube fixtures in the aisles ,usually spaced a few feet apart with no problems. If there are operator shadows at spots they don't seem noticeable when running trains and if they became a problem for photos a portable light on a stand solves it. I've never seen a small LED that I like, they seem too sparkly and add too much contrast to me, I guess it's the multiple little point light sources instead of a larger  source? I do have a pair of LED light bulb replacement style in a bedroom fixture that look alright and are supposed to last about 20 year IIRC.....DaveB

A few companies are making replacement T8 lamps that use led. Simple pop in install, lower heat output and energy savings to boot.

Does the ballast really generate less heat when these tubes are installed?