I didn't know that Bernd, what's dihydrogen monoxide?

Old news from 2009 with lots of rhetoric and little substantive information in this post.  Lets add a little info first regarding why NS should experiment with battery powered locomotives such as the significant potential for economic saving and efficiency while reducing environmental impact.

http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/Media/News/Releases/2009/batterie...

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/10434?page=1

and

ww.nscorp.com/nscorphtml/bizns/bizNS1-6.pdf    (See pages 7-9)

Now a little data first regarding why battery powered locomotives may (biased but from my reading still valid) economic benefits of using battery powered locomotives:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/540501-battery-powered-locomotives-compe...

Lets see:  New units which would cost about half of the expected cost of the proposed high efficiency diesel units, with operating costs 20% to 50% less than the operating costs current high efficiency diesel units while releasing less than 1/40 th of the pollutants. 

But my primary concern is that a sound decoder for a model of NS 999 would sound terrible - horn, bell, compressor, brakes, fans, track clank and a little electric motor whine instead of a nice diesel rumble.  Ok for the traction guys but not for real railroaders

Ken K

You might want to google it to find out the truth

Why not string a catenary like the Swiss have done?

You'll eliminate the lead of the battery. Ya I know, not invented here.

Japanese Bullet trains run under wire. But then they might have batteries in their substations. Wonder if they use LiPo's or Nicad's?  

Bernd

"Sat, 2012-12-08 16:06 — Bernd

On the other hand, the best way to take lead out of the environment is to turn it into storage batteries and put them under hoods.  Once the item is in use, it has a safe place.  It's at the beginning and the end of the cycle where there's a problem.

Ah Benny I applaude your insight. And I'm not being fascias. That was one of the points I wanted to make. It may be a environmentally safe design until you look at all the rest.

To mine the lead it took a, I'm sure, diesel powered vehicle. A diesel power vehicle to bring it the processing plant, were does the processing plant get it's power from, batteries? Then the processed lead needs to be shipped to the battery producer, I bet diesel power takes it there. I'm sure the reader will get the drift. I think they call this "the investment of diminishing returns".

PAPat

What do you mean am I at it again? Do I have that guilty look on my face?  

Edumacation my friend. Schools lack this commodity in great amounts. Now I think it's time to quit wasting valuable bandwidth with off topic subjects I keep coming up with.

Self policing net nanny, don't you know.

Bernd

the best way to take lead out of the environment is to turn it into storage batteries

Actually, Benny, the best way to take lead out of the environment (meaning as a hazard to us and the rest of the life on this planet) is to leave it in the environment in the first place.  Lead ore  left in the ground does not have nearly the environmental impact that lead waste does.  Since there is no form of battery which simply keeps on giving eternally, eventually lead acid batteries have to be replaced.  They can be recycled, but that has its own environmental issues.  If we could avoid the need entirely, that would be a much better thing to do to our globe.

As for the Green Goat, I remember when they made the thing.  It seems to me more of a publicity stunt than anything.  I have no idea whether they're actually using the engine to switch the Altoona Shops or not, but I have not heard a peep about it since it's creation.  I also have not seen one more anywhere on the system.  I seem to recall figuring (or maybe reading) that in a 24 hour period, it would require about 16 hours of charging for 8 hours of use, but that may not be accurate.

Catenary costs money, both up front and for maintenance.  I suspect that railroads will eventually be electrified, but it's prohibitively expensive at the moment.  Also, in the modern corporate culture where the next quarter's profits are everything, no corporation is likely to be willing to invest the resources, and thus decimate quarterly and even annual profits, for an investment that will not pay of for years.  It is more profitable short-term to compromise our long-term viability.  Sounds a lot like a few talking heads I've heard recently...

Now, that fireless cooker.  Aside from the dangers if dihydrogen monoxide, there are actually some good reasons for building a steam engine with no boiler.  The pressure tank is filled with superheated water under pressure, and as the steam is used and the pressure drops, more steam is produced.  When low, the tank can be recharged from a stationary boiler which, because of its size and the fact that it does not have to be steamed furiously to work, can be MUCH more efficient than anything on a locomotive.  Recharging does not take too terribly long, and the engine can go right back to work.  Thus, for a plant switcher which will always be close to a supply of superheated water, it's a viable idea.  It's also good for places (munitions factories, coal mines) where an open fire is a risk.

Ken,

Your last paragraph second sentence almost made me spray coffee all over my keyboard. Love it. Great. I see you catching on to my sick humor.

The rest of that last paragraph I actually learned something. I know how those engines worked. What I didn't know was that they used super heated water. Now it makes sense to me why they could run for the length of time that they did. Expose super heated water to atmospheric pressure which is many magnitudes lower and the water boils. The higher the altitude the sooner your water boils.

Ok everybody we're going to live in the high mountains. Water boils sooner than at sea level. Think of the energy will save just boiling water.

Oh God help me. I'm loosing it here. Were are the net nannies when you need them?

Bernd

Lead naturally in the ground does not stay in the ground; as natural water flows around it, it leaches out the lead.  If you go around Patagonia, AZ, you'll find that the levels of lead in the water are quite high - and this is natural.  This is true anywhere you have natural lead content in the ground.

These metals are best used, and car batteries are perhaps the best use because we as a country have become so good at managing the recycling programs on these batteries - the secret is a large core charge - , and they are big enough where it makes sense for people to take them in for replacement as opposed to throwing them away in the dumpster. 

Lead is a very good metal, highly stable and useful in a number of manufacturing capacities.  It is very easy to use and cheap in the modes we use it - we're VERY good at making lead acid batteries!  It does indeed have an MSDS sheet, but I far prefer that sheet to the one that comes with the Lithium batteries they put in the new rechargeable cars; that stuff is outright toxic on a level lead batteries will never be!