If the silence is deafening, then there may be something to learn from that... ;-)
FWIW:
- 3:35 "...so if you were to add transistors to it..."
Um, many modellers struggle to solder the Main Track Buss wires on their layouts, soldering SMD transistors is likely far-beyond the realms of "do-able" (are Lok offering warranty replacement if a modeller damages a decoder while adding said transistors?)...
- 4:40 "...It's got a beautiful bass response..."
Bass by AES definition is sub-100Hz. Actual frequency response specs for the speaker+enclosure in question would be greatly appreciated...
I have five of the Select decoders. In my opinion they are fantastic. Great sound and superior motor control. Hopefully ESU and Matt can release some more specific steam sounds soon. In most steam loco installs more than 2 lighting functions is a waste.
... if the quality does not seem to be "up to par" for an MRH/MTV video, perhaps it is because the default resolution when first played is 144p. If you want to see better video, just select a higher setting on the YouTube settings bar. It will look as good as expected from MRH/MTV. Good job, guys.
Bill D.
N Scale (1:160), not N Gauge. DC (analog), Stapleton PWM Throttle.
Proto-freelance Southwest U.S. 2nd half 20th Century.
I'm with you on the transistor being soldered on a decoder circuit board. I remember soldering on surface mount resistors to a digitrax decoder and cutting through chevrons and things. I was sweating and shaking from being worried about messing up the decoder. Not a fun process and it prompted me vowing not to ever do that again!
It's hard to imagine rich bass tones sharing the same speaker with the other frequencies. Are they dividing frequencies up between multiple speakers?
There is no need to solder a surface mount transistor to the Board. All that needs to happen is that transistor be provided for power "between" the board and the output. Of course this isn't something that everyone will do. We completely understand this. The point to be made here was that not only is this a 4 powered output MICRO decoder for less than $100.00, but it also has the ability, if one is capable, to become a 6 output decoder. It was testifying to the logic built in.
As for warranties, we do have a 2 year warranty on our decoders. One of the best in the industry.
The "Bass Response" statement was referring to the fact that the speaker responded well to bass sounds, low chug, Steam Chuff, Etc.. Obviously, it is not a subwoofer... but in comparison to the other samples we tried when sourcing this speaker it is very good! I'll try to get the specs for you from Germany.
True to my word I found the Frequency response specs.
The new Speaker 50325 16x35mm speaker with enclosure has a frequency range from 63 to 17000 Hz. This being said, EVERY sound install is different and much will depend on the enclosure used, the Shell, the space inside the engine, whether the speaker is facing up or down, the sounds, etc etc....
The best you can do to see if this is going to be the go to speaker for you, is to pick one up and try one! Even at this it is only my word that it sounds good. The true test is your ears!
Thankyou soo much for the reply. It heartens me that a model RR sound manufacturer is actually serious enough to know (and publish!) the actual sonic specs of their speakers/enclosures/equipment, instead of relying on a pat "yep, it's got bass" comment (BTW, 63Hz @ -?dB SPL-A?)
I totally agree with the "Trust your ears (and have a go)" ethos as has long been the call of the LayoutSound YahooGroup. However, many modellers will acknowledge that their hearing ain't what it used to be, and even more wouldn't actually know the true definition of bass unless they experienced an earthquake. (Hint: what the kids call "bass" when listening to the top 10 on their MP3 player is actually a 200-300Hz hump. Wake me when we get below 100Hz ;-) ).
Furthur, the ears are still (only) hearing what the numbers already tell us. Pro Audio already has a fully ratified and perscribed set of specs for quantifying speaker/enclosure performance, and it saddens me when as modellers we don't take advantage of the-work-that's-been-done-before-us...
(by people who have a lot more $$$$ and reputation on the line than most any Model RR application I can bring to mind... ;-) ).
As to the entire installation (speaker, enclosure, shell, resonance, etc) affecting the sound, I completely agree. This is why some Lok users (shout-out to Peter R from NZ) created a test-tone Lok project, using AES/ISO frequencies triggered from the F-buttons. By (admitedly subjectively) comparing the percieved loudness of each test tone as played thru a given speaker+enclosure+shell installation, Peter could reverse-engineer which frequencies the entire install was enhancing (and which were being nobbled), and could apply a loco/install-specific EQ curve to the related source loco sound-files to compensate.
Taken furthur, I wonder how many "diehard sound fans" would be willing to subject their install to a proper "speaker frequency response" test? (When you think about it, a onboard loco sound install is nothing but a "iPod speaker on wheels").
Again, Many thanks for providing the specs for the new speakers. 63Hz is an impressive bottom-end number, and I look forward to more Model RR sound-equipment manufacturers "showing the specs" without fear...
wow, Prof. Now this is real science! (And I could see myself doing something like this.) Is there a site with more information on how it is done? Thanks. Dave O
The basic process has been posted in various sound-related threads here on-fora over the last 6-12 months. Members of the Soundtraxx, LokSound, and LayoutSound Yahoogroups have also taken the ball and run with it previously. (Check the Loksound group for contact with Peter R and his Test-Tone project).
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr
PS the above isn't "truly scientific", as you can see it's happening on my coffeetable, and not in an anechoic chamber.
It's also using my ears, not an Audio Precision AP2 system with calibrated B&K test mic.
But, it's "good enough for model RRing"... ;-)
Comments
You asked...
Dear Site-Admin,
If the silence is deafening, then there may be something to learn from that... ;-)
FWIW:
- 3:35 "...so if you were to add transistors to it..."
Um, many modellers struggle to solder the Main Track Buss wires on their layouts, soldering SMD transistors is likely far-beyond the realms of "do-able" (are Lok offering warranty replacement if a modeller damages a decoder while adding said transistors?)...
- 4:40 "...It's got a beautiful bass response..."
Bass by AES definition is sub-100Hz. Actual frequency response specs for the speaker+enclosure in question would be greatly appreciated...
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr
ESU LS Select.
I have five of the Select decoders. In my opinion they are fantastic. Great sound and superior motor control. Hopefully ESU and Matt can release some more specific steam sounds soon. In most steam loco installs more than 2 lighting functions is a waste.
Pete
About the video ...
... if the quality does not seem to be "up to par" for an MRH/MTV video, perhaps it is because the default resolution when first played is 144p. If you want to see better video, just select a higher setting on the YouTube settings bar. It will look as good as expected from MRH/MTV. Good job, guys.
Bill D.
N Scale (1:160), not N Gauge. DC (analog), Stapleton PWM Throttle.
Proto-freelance Southwest U.S. 2nd half 20th Century.
Keep on trackin'
Good stuff ...
... coming from ESU Loksound it seems. Looks like they are putting a lot of effort into getting the sound right and that has to be a good thing. :)
Prof both good questions
I'm with you on the transistor being soldered on a decoder circuit board. I remember soldering on surface mount resistors to a digitrax decoder and cutting through chevrons and things. I was sweating and shaking from being worried about messing up the decoder. Not a fun process and it prompted me vowing not to ever do that again!
It's hard to imagine rich bass tones sharing the same speaker with the other frequencies. Are they dividing frequencies up between multiple speakers?
Chris Palomarez
Some Clarification...
Hello Prof,
Thanks for taking the time to watch the video.
There is no need to solder a surface mount transistor to the Board. All that needs to happen is that transistor be provided for power "between" the board and the output. Of course this isn't something that everyone will do. We completely understand this. The point to be made here was that not only is this a 4 powered output MICRO decoder for less than $100.00, but it also has the ability, if one is capable, to become a 6 output decoder. It was testifying to the logic built in.
As for warranties, we do have a 2 year warranty on our decoders. One of the best in the industry.
The "Bass Response" statement was referring to the fact that the speaker responded well to bass sounds, low chug, Steam Chuff, Etc.. Obviously, it is not a subwoofer... but in comparison to the other samples we tried when sourcing this speaker it is very good! I'll try to get the specs for you from Germany.
Best Regards,
Matt Herman
ESU LLC
New Speaker
Hello Prof,
True to my word I found the Frequency response specs.
The new Speaker 50325 16x35mm speaker with enclosure has a frequency range from 63 to 17000 Hz. This being said, EVERY sound install is different and much will depend on the enclosure used, the Shell, the space inside the engine, whether the speaker is facing up or down, the sounds, etc etc....
The best you can do to see if this is going to be the go to speaker for you, is to pick one up and try one! Even at this it is only my word that it sounds good. The true test is your ears!
Best Regards,
Matt Herman
ESU LLC
Many Thanks
Dear Matt,
Thankyou soo much for the reply. It heartens me that a model RR sound manufacturer is actually serious enough to know (and publish!) the actual sonic specs of their speakers/enclosures/equipment, instead of relying on a pat "yep, it's got bass" comment (BTW, 63Hz @ -?dB SPL-A?)
I totally agree with the "Trust your ears (and have a go)" ethos as has long been the call of the LayoutSound YahooGroup. However, many modellers will acknowledge that their hearing ain't what it used to be, and even more wouldn't actually know the true definition of bass unless they experienced an earthquake. (Hint: what the kids call "bass" when listening to the top 10 on their MP3 player is actually a 200-300Hz hump. Wake me when we get below 100Hz ;-) ).
Furthur, the ears are still (only) hearing what the numbers already tell us. Pro Audio already has a fully ratified and perscribed set of specs for quantifying speaker/enclosure performance, and it saddens me when as modellers we don't take advantage of the-work-that's-been-done-before-us...
(by people who have a lot more $$$$ and reputation on the line than most any Model RR application I can bring to mind... ;-) ).
As to the entire installation (speaker, enclosure, shell, resonance, etc) affecting the sound, I completely agree. This is why some Lok users (shout-out to Peter R from NZ) created a test-tone Lok project, using AES/ISO frequencies triggered from the F-buttons. By (admitedly subjectively) comparing the percieved loudness of each test tone as played thru a given speaker+enclosure+shell installation, Peter could reverse-engineer which frequencies the entire install was enhancing (and which were being nobbled), and could apply a loco/install-specific EQ curve to the related source loco sound-files to compensate.
Taken furthur, I wonder how many "diehard sound fans" would be willing to subject their install to a proper "speaker frequency response" test? (When you think about it, a onboard loco sound install is nothing but a "iPod speaker on wheels").
Again, Many thanks for providing the specs for the new speakers. 63Hz is an impressive bottom-end number, and I look forward to more Model RR sound-equipment manufacturers "showing the specs" without fear...
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr
"loco/install-specific EQ curve"
wow, Prof. Now this is real science! (And I could see myself doing something like this.) Is there a site with more information on how it is done? Thanks. Dave O
Trust one's ears, and wire it up... ;-)
Dear Dave O,
The basic process has been posted in various sound-related threads here on-fora over the last 6-12 months. Members of the Soundtraxx, LokSound, and LayoutSound Yahoogroups have also taken the ball and run with it previously. (Check the Loksound group for contact with Peter R and his Test-Tone project).
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr
PS the above isn't "truly scientific", as you can see it's happening on my coffeetable, and not in an anechoic chamber.
It's also using my ears, not an Audio Precision AP2 system with calibrated B&K test mic.
But, it's "good enough for model RRing"... ;-)