"Please don't start acting like Model Railroader" Every day I get an advertisement to buy something, be it a book or coffee mug ect. what do they think we are made out of money? I like the venders that you show every month and the laid back way you show every issue, you give us just what we want TRAINS & TRAIN SUPPLIERS. 

"Please don't start acting like Model Railroader" Every day I get an advertisement to buy something, be it a book or coffee mug ect. what do they think we are made out of money? I like the venders that you show every month and the laid back way you show every issue, you give us just what we want TRAINS & TRAIN SUPPLIERS. 

That's what happens when the accountants start running the business - they spend all their energy trying to find new ways to part people from their money. That's not us.

We may offer these items if you want them and make it very easy to find them if they're something you want. But we won't be in-your-face about it. We're first passion-driven and content-driven. If the content we produce is good, we won't need to be trying to shove stuff in your face to buy all the time - you will come looking for us.

It's called "inbound marketing" ... meaning make it easy for people who are looking for what you have to find you. Outbound marketing is more old-school ... get in your face all the time trying to create demand. People resent it and it's not how you build a solid business long-term digital media business.

That is the Number 1 thing I like about MRH:

"We're first passion-driven and content-driven."

Dear Paul,

Why not Black? My wife jokes that I only wear 2 colors, "Black" and "Black with a discrete breast-pocket logo on"... ;-)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

I am in favor of trinkets and other items you may come up with. Naturally price does come into the picture but make it reasonable and make a million. There are enough of us out there to really make it a good deal for all.

reasonably to the UK!!!

Mugs, patches, pins etc. We have to pay import duty on top you know!

The biggest issue with any country outside of the usa is postage and yes it is a killer for using ups or fed ex to get an item to australia because it works on cubic charges esp for a mug as even though it might be light in weight but takes up a lot of space.

May be you could look at something like what peco did for the royal wedding they did a run of 500 N scale grain wagons or the n scale society has limited edition runs for wagons both freight or passenger so maybe this is an idea that could be looked at in both ho and n scale such as a box car with the MRH logo on the side like what they did for the 52 states of amercia and do it in a run of say 500 or 1000 units in both ho and n scale and than its light weight and not large and its something that wont sit on a shelf and in 18 months time have a fire sale so to speak to clear all the stock

i know in australia if it is under a certian amount say $100.00 we dont pay the gst or vat charge

It would be interesting to see the ages of those who are suggesting some items.  Respectfully I would suggest those who are talking about patches for vests are of a more senior age whereas I don't think younger folk have as munch interest in such things.

I think the key is to offer quality merchandise at reasonable prices while at the same time no being a burden on cash flow.  The would naturally suggest something like cafepress, smug mug or similar create on demand outfits where no inventory is required to be on hand.  Anything that will require an initial outlay of cash and hoping you sell all of the inventory is subject to risk after the initial demand has been met.  That includes things like patches, limited edition cars, possibly hats etc.  How many times have you seen limited edition cars available for sale at deep discounts years later just to get rid of the stuff?

The other option is to take preorders and nothing happens until a minimum amount is reached.  If minimum quantity not reached nothing produced.

Joe is an astute businessman and I am sure whatever he does will be done at a benefit and minimal risk to him and MRH.  That is why on-demand or preorder makes sense

I am in agreement with posters who suggested Cafepress or similar vendor. The lines of merchandise are broad and the buyer can select sizes and colors easily.

I had a basic design and submitted it to the patch makers. (I had the owners permission and blessing on the artwork).  I had gotten enough feedback that I knew I had 30 or 40 orders coming if I could get the patches produced.

I took the plunge and produced a batch of 100 patches on my dime.  I sold them for $5 a throw, kept some for myself (1/2 dozen or so.)  Gave 2 to the owner of the artwork/source (They hang in his office today).  I sold over 60 of them at the 5$ a throw.  Then they sat for a little while with a few more dribbling out, then someone came and offered to take the last 20 off my hands at 3$ per to use as door prizes at an event the artwork owner was going to be at)

I made a small profit ($100 or so) on that batch of patches, and I got the patches I wanted.  There was never enough interest to do another batch, but then the audience for that patch started out much smaller then MRH to begin with.

If I can make a profit at $5 per, MRH can make a profit at 8 or 10$ per (my wife was mailing them out, so there was minimal overhead for handling, and we broke even on postage.)

So, even with batches, MRH could make a profit on patches.  (Heck, Joe, consider this my order for at least 2 of them).  BTW: Joe if you want, I will dig up the name of the place that did the work for me and send it to you.

I would be buy a T-shirt or a poll shirt, XXL, aka double fat.  That said, I might buy a hat or a patch.

I would take a coffee mug, hat and a patch that I could sew onto a shirt of my choosing.  I much prefer patches as if the shirt rips or wears out, the patch is still good and can be resown onto another shirt.  I still use the 1964 National Jamboree patches from the BSA Valley Forge event on my uniforms and they are still in great condition.  Quality patches last.

I really and honestly don't see myself going out of my way for another hat, or T shirt, and I've got more mugs than I could ever use. But what about a custom boxcar with the MRH logo on the side? Now that I would jump to buy! Offered in various scales of course, at least HO, N,, and possibly O and Z if financially possible. It might even become a valued collectible overr time.

Rolling stock could easily become an inventory headache, but how about decals? A sheet could have one big logo with the URL that folks would put on equipment cases, RV windows etc., logos sized for a billboard car in O HO and N,  and a whole lot of graffiti tags.

pqe

A car would be good, and maybe even a pre-war or even older 36 footer for charm. Sign me up for one in N-scale with Kadee body-mounts and metal wheels. (see discussions in a few rail-related Yahooo! groups like Earlyrail or STMFC)

Why not Black? My wife jokes that I only wear 2 colors, "Black" and "Black with a discrete breast-pocket logo on"... ;-)

Prof Klyzlr;

The logos and lettering I have seen on black shirts just don't look very good.  For some reason it's usually yellow which makes you like a bumblebee.  Other colors except white don't show up well and white on black is kinda of harsh.

All of this of course is my subjective aesthetic opinion - others may love yellow or white on black.

Enjoy

Paul

I would want a 24 ounce Coffee Mug with the logo or any of the Logo we find on the tops of each Post, But with the SP Mountain photo from the cover of his Volume 5 of Joe Fugate's Siskiyou line DVD With Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine on one side and the photo on the other I'd pay $19.95 for that cup and that would be the Best for my taste.

I don't use the standard size coffee cups. No mater what I'm drinking I always use 24 oz cups. The larger cup would show off the the photo and logo much better then the little 8 oz cups do or would.

Dan

Decals.  Take that to the next level, and it fits:  Virtual decals!  Joe, make up a decal sheet as a Jpeg and set it up for downloading.  Do it high enough quality for large scale, with the scale specified.  The rest of us can shrink the image as needed.  Or even do them as separate images per scale.  Then make them downloadable so we can download and make our own real decals.  Nothing beyond the design expense for MRH, no overhead to store the product (well, beyond a few more bytes of storage on your server), no delivery charges, no cost to the customer, never run out of product.

Then when people want to do their own custom car, they download the decal master, print their own decals and they are off to the races.  Might even be possible to do coffee cups with decals too.  Print it on regular paper or car stock and mount it in a badge for wearing on a shirt too.

I really and honestly don't see myself going out of my way for another hat, or T shirt, and I've got more mugs than I could ever use. But what about a custom boxcar with the MRH logo on the side? Now that I would jump to buy! Offered in various scales of course, at least HO, N,, and possibly O and Z if financially possible. It might even become a valued collectible over time.

A run of cars is going to cost more than you expect. Micro-Trains Lines has a run of 300 minimum.

Box cars are not really promotional items.  Who sees them besides model railroaders. They already know about MRH. I think the idea is to get something out in the public eye to generate conversation and awareness... That's my idea of promotion.

I still think patches are the best idea, easiest to distribute, and can be used in a number of places. Shirts, caps bags etc. Takes the whole size thing out of the equation.

Randy

Hi all,make it a nice patch!!i can put it on my choice of garment and being a UK resident if you would sell me one?or maybe two!! then you could pop it an envelope and easily mail it to me, job done!!!providing the customs guys don't get to inquisitive.

As with Alan in Oz the cost of post would probably be half of the cost of a patch at say $10,i dont mind i would be the proud owner of said patch,it had better be a "looker" though!!

Don (as in Donald Duck) Thomson.From gods own county of West Yorkshire.

I wear Red Cross blood donor, team logo, and train t-shirts, but rarely buy them since I get many as promotions. Hats are almost the same. I don't bother with patches, though that is a decent idea.

A calendar with "is it real?" photos would be attractive to me. A decal is a nice idea, but I can print my own, so who needs it? Btw, use vector graphics not raster if you do a PDF to print.

Why distract from content though?

Dave

It is not a distraction, it is Funding!

 ;)

I think anything would work, just announce it on the "Build to Order" business model and get the runs paid for up front.

Make them the size of the real r/r patches not 2 to 3 inches , stick on or swen on. Maby maid

in U.S.A.

                                                          Thanks

                                                      John W. Roat

Just to dispel a myth here - if we do this it is NOT for funding. To make it generate more than a few hundred a month in profit, we'd need to jack the prices way up - which is counter-productive because that will kill sales.

So our motivation here is to basically break even and focus more on promotion than making a profit on this stuff.

This kind of thing is to get us better known or to remind people we're here, and it's not a big money-maker since it's NOT our primary business - our primary business is making killer model railroading content to help you be a better modeler and to build a more satisfying layout.

I'd prefer a hat.

Joe, will something be available by the first of October? I'm going to the Sunshine Region convention an it would be great to be sporting the MRH colors for promotion and so MRH fans can find each other easier.

I will be doing a clinic and if I have a patch I will wear that shirt while giving the clinic.  Same show, same date

Talks are proceeding now with a vendor that could produce this stuff just-in-time style. We'll know more soon ...

Personally, I would much rather have something for the layout.  My all time favorite from the old days was the Carstens business car. Even if you only did decals, we could all have a MRH business car touring our layouts. If you do it as decals only, the cost is minimal, easily reproduce-able if you run out, and can be produced in multiple scales.

Along the same lines, signage for a building (say a DPM factory or similar)- roof sign for a publishing company "MRH Publishing Inc" with a decal ad for a blank wall.  Signs would be simple enough to do with a high quality office printer, and have the decal made by any of a number of custom decal printers out there.  Could be made in multiple scales, and could be made in 2 or 3 eras- to look like an 1890s newspaper office, or 1950s publishing house, or 2013 electronic publisher.

Another clever idea I have seen recently is the making of custom decals or signage for the sides of Classic Metal Works trucks.  Someone sells these on ebay lettered for anything from various circuses to the Warner Bros. "ACME" co.  My layout is set in 1956- I could see an MRH delivery truck parked in the alley behind the local bookstore, unloading.  The fact that MRH wasn't around in 1950s, and is delivered electronically, just makes it more fun.  And again, simple box trucks (or wagons, 1890s) are available for a variety of scales and eras.  You could do the whole truck, or just the decals.

Now, would I stop by your booth at a convention and pick up a patch or a travel mug- impulse buy- sure, if it happens to be the one convention or train show I get to in 5 years.  Am I likely to put down 6.95 (or whatever) in shipping to have a coffee mug delivered to my door when (honestly) I have a cupboard full already and get 2 or 3 more every year from various sales people or as doorprizes, not likely.

As I say, just my opinion.  Best of luck with whatever promo you  do.  Magazine is a great resource, and you have a lot of really interesting products being advertized- and the electronic format of the ads lets me access the websites directly- no paging through a print mag and hoping I spell everything right in the URL.

Tom D

At 40 I stopped wearing "T"s but a Polo shirt is a got-to-have for me. I have over 200 that I have bought or traded for.

DeRailHale

A tee with Madame Queen or some other great honking steamer, a fallen flags motif, an old Victorian depot with an F7 taking on passengers, or hatpins  of steamers from fallen flags would be nice. I've been looking for a Denver, South Park and Pacific tee for a long time.

First ya need a better logo, then probably I'd be interested.  Just "writing" looks lame.

C'mon gang, your leading in the high tech arena, and can't find anyone to do a hi-tech logo?

Well, I'll keep waiting . . .

First ya need a better logo

Joe, the man makes a good point. Branding 101 - a good logo.

Maybe 'Fallen Flags' should play into that somehow.

Our "logo" sucks, aye? Our magazine name (stylized) is our logo, you know, just like many businesses (Microsoft, Oracle, ...). Same for MR and Craftsman. We are proud of our name and we stand by it with very good reason because it captures our values and emphasis on the modeler. The name cannot and will not change.

If it sucks then one of you marketing geniuses design a replacement.

Sheesh.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current logo. It's fine and I would not ever think of changing it.

As they say, opinions are like , well you know. Every forum has one!

Randy

Joe,

I disagree about the logo "sucking" and will be happy with what you provide.  Back to my original reason for requesting this:  I love MRH and want to promote it so others can learn about this great endeavor!  That said, I want something that many others can see, so I don't want a rail car, structure, etc..., but something I can wear that can be seen at train shows, conventions, and where ever I choose to display it.  Patch / hat / shirt - whatever.  If you'll provide me high rez image files then I can even print my own iron-on and apply it to one of my shirts (one of my L&N shirts?)  The problem with that is they don't look the greatest and don't last, but it would be better than nothing.

Same for MR and Craftsman

All the more reason to be different. MRH is a trail blazer in hobby media. Stands to reason it should be a trail blazer in marketing too.

Not sucks. Just needs more visual appeal. Some of the most valuable logos have no words.

We use 99designs anytime we need a new product logo instead of paying freelance artists or marketing houses. Inexpensive and has returned great results.

Magazines don't do logos ... Their logo is always their stylized name. Name any magazine you can think of - their logo is ALWAYS their magazine cover masthead, because that furthers their brand in the most concrete way. I defy you to find a magazine whose logo is NOT their name stylized.

The MRH masthead has been stylized as of Gen2 ... Look closely and you will find it.

Magazines don't do logos for a very good reason, I think. The cover masthead furthers their brand the strongest because it creates immediate recognition when people see the publication.

    If you add tracks something like this it might work well on a ball cap or tee shirt? ....DaveB

Didn't say you shouldn't use words. Merely pointing out there is more to brand recognition than spelling out a name. The very reason logos exist in the first place - a unique, easily identifiable means by which consumers recognize your brand. Words spelled out in a common font using standard kerning with a standard fill don't satisfy the "unique" test.

Example: Which is more impactful, memorable, and uniquely recognizable?

Rolling Stone 

Additionally, logo style should reflect or represent the subject, product positioning, or a characteristic of the target audience if at all possible. Even subliminal if necessary.

Example:

GQ 

Think the color choice is random? Think the letters being overlapped is random? Think again. This is a highly engineered logo. Notice the words power, sex, dominance, priority, control do not appear? Yet that is what the logo conveys in the context of where it appears. The publisher knows his target market. Rather loses something when reduced to standard type, wouldn't you say?

MRH is what we already call it...becasue it's to much to say Model Railroad Hobbyist.  Rayroad always gets mashed up anyways...

Just one thing, though...no blue boobs... :P

Yeah but if it's on a cap or tee we need the full name so folks that are not familiar with MRH will learn what it is......DaveB

An example of logo development for a new product we launched...

The request submitted to 99designs called for a design that:

1. Conveys advancement through sequential stations
2. Stations are different but tightly related
3. Product becomes more refined at each station
4. Uninterrupted chain or flow of product through stations
5. Stations are centrally controlled
6. Must contain product name
7. Clean, modern look utilizing PMS Process Blue

99designs winning entry:

Now that you know the criteria of the design, look closely at the graphic. It makes sense and in an abstract way conveys the intended message. Customers in the industry where this product was launched get the connection between the product and unspoken message in the logo. Surveys have verified the logo is working as it ranks high in recognizability (within the industry) even when the product name is omitted.

Don't take me wrong Joe. Not beating up MRH. Quite the opposite actually. Love the mag and the fact I get it for free. Want to see it grow and prosper.

Yeah but if it's on a cap or tee we need the full name so folks that are not familiar with MRH will learn what it is......DaveB

No, we don't.  When people get home, they can Google search MRH - and they stand a lot better chance remembering "MRH than they do remembering "Model Railroad Hobbyist."  Go do that Google search right now, tell me what your results are. 

You might say that people may not know how to do a Google search, and I'm personally not concerned with those people.  MRH is a modern product for a modern enthusiast, as I see it, or otherwise they'd have a print edition...

All the letters need to be is MRH, just look around the world at all the Letters and letters only that appear on things.  RMC and MR already go by their initials, it's no different on this side of the fence...  Love it or hate it, but Initials carry a lot of weight.

The cover, of course, would still proudly display "Model Railroad Hobbyist," all neatly spelled out, but the spine, the letterhead, these places are all another matter...

If I'm going to the trouble of wearing a logo cap or tee  I want people to instantly know what it is so they can stop and talk about it. If they have to go home and google it on their computer I've lost the chance to tell them in person about the hobby...DaveB

Instant gratification is not necessarily a good thing...And the query in mind for the quesiton, "What is MRH why is everybody always mentioning it??" may linger longer than "Why should I care about Model Railroad Hobbyist."

Here's the world you envision:

And here's where the world is right now:

"MRH Magazine" as a logo, carries the same weight...

The Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine name is deliberately engineered with careful fonts and colors to convey a meaning.

I'm saddened that folks think we just slapped something together.

I'm on the road at the National NG convention in Pasadena and I'm posting this with my iPhone. Once I get some time I will spell out the design elements and also talk a out our mrhmag.com companion logo with the steam loco.