Dear Rob,

As you've belatedly discovered, the "Select" and the "V4" are markedly different decoders, aimed as different market segments. The "Select" comes with a specific soundset, and the ability for the End User to change which "preset option" (given horn, prime-mover, etc) plays via a simple CV tweak.
(By limiting the range of options the User can select, the actual selection process can and is significantly simplified). 

The "V4" on the other hand is a "if you want to completely create your own soundset from scratch. using your own WAV files, and manually dictate/configure every behaviour" type decoder.

In short, a Select is the "friendly domestic version", 
(One knob to twiddle, that's all).

whereas the V4 is the "you gotta know what you're playing with, but it'll run rings around anything else once you know how to drive it" techie option.
(Every possibly knob available for the twiddling, with the attendent onus on the End User to know what they are doing... ;-) ).

A quick look at the manual for V4 
http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/ reveals

1 - Yes, the V4 can do "alternating ditch lights"

2 - Page 44, Section 12.3.1 describes the various lighting styles, inc "Ditch Light #1" (defaults to OFF when not triggered) and "Ditch Light #2" (defaults to steady ON when not triggered).

Which of these behaviours is your preferred situation?
(default steady OFF or default steady ON?)

3 - Page 44, Section 12.3.2 tells about "Adjusting Lighting Effects". NOTE the "Phase Select", this is what allows a pair of ditchlights to "alternately flash".

4 - Each function configuration on a V4 starts with dictating

- which specific physical function output/wire you're working with 
- which F-key you are using to trigger the Output/wire specified above
- and what you actually want that wire to do once it's triggered

If you know which (presumably 2) function outputs
(Headlight, Taillight, AUX1, AUX2, AUX3, AUX4) you are using for the ditchlights,

the you've at least got enough info to start working thru the LokSound-logic to determine the CV values you need...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

To get the most out of a Loksound V4 decoder and be able to download new sounds for it, you really need to invest in a Loksound Programmer.  It will give you access to all the functions, allow you to create sound files and download new sounds from the ESU home page.  Loksound V4s (and the earlier V3.5s) can be completely rewritten with new data, so even if you bought a UP Challenger decoder, you can rewrite it for a GP9 instead.

As Prof mentioned, you can also build the files from scratch using your own sound files, so if you have access to the proper recordings and know what you're doing, you can practically make a custom sound decoder to your own specs.  If you want a different air compressor, you might be able to find what you want in one of the other engine sound files, isolate it, and then insert it into your decoder in the place of the default sound.

There will be a learning curve, but with the Programmer and after learning the techniques, you can do practically anything you can imagine with a Loksound, sound-wise, anyway.

Dear Jurgen,

Thankfully, if I read Rob's post correctly, all he wants is a set of CV values to get his ditchlights working... ;-)
(no LokProgrammer or Audio Editing required)

Once Rob advises
- which outputs he's using for the ditchlights
- whether he wants the ditchlights to default Off or default On
(IE when they are not triggered to flash)

then nutting out the appropriate CVs and values for them should be reasonably simple... ;-)

Totally agreed however, the V4 decoders are capable of some pretty impressive behaviours,
just wish they were capable of CD spec audio... ;-)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

I only mentioned the Programmer because it would allow him to try to change the sounds like the compressor he mentioned.  I want to use my Programmer to use a European hydraulic sound to approximate an RDC, but I need to change the bell and horn to something the CPR would use to make it sound more appropriate.  It's not a casual purchase, but if you are going to do a lot of work with Loksound decoders, it's worth the money. 

I eventually would like to get into a programmer and customize the sounds, but I just have way too many other things going in the hobby right now.  Maybe six months or a year from now.

That said, I am fine with the FDL16 sounds Litchfield Station put on there before they shipped.  The only thing I am not happy with is the horn.  I think it's a leslie or something and I would much prefer a K5LA.  I *thought* this sound package included several horns -  CV selectable, but can't find documentation as to which ones.

As for the ditch lights, I always wire them with the purple (violet) and green function wires. I think it is the violet one that is currently osscilating when I hit F4.  I would much prefer the ditch lights stay on steady like the prototype when not activated.

Again, I really appreciate the help guys!

Rob

Dear Rob,

Again, you're looking for the "Select" functionality you're familiar with (change of horn by simple CV tweak) in the V4 product.

Selects were given such "multi-horn, select via CV" functionality because of the objection by many modellers to the idea of loading their own sound file to change the horn (with attendent requirement to get into an audio editing app, source/scratchbuild a suitable sound file, and then invest in the programmer required to upload said replacement sound to the decoder).

According to this writeup of the V4 FDL16 sound project, your guess of the Leslie would appear to be spot-on ;-)

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/generation-4/loksound-v40-usa/?tx_esudecoderprojects_pi1%5BprintView%5D=050143bee72c170445c05005f396847a&cHash=a70458b7e47e0d4cce3cfa8b9bc1135d

And furthur, note that there is no sign of "alternate horn sounds loaded/available", (in the V4, at least as far as the "Factory Stock" FDL16 sound project goes, the end-user gets the Leslie, the Leslie, and only the Leslie, unless the end-user provides the required alternative sound file).

I also note according to the documentation on this project that, by default, F4 is set to trigger AUX1, which is the GREEN function out according to Page 14 of the manual. If you're accidentally mistaking which wire you're seeing trigger (IE swapping VIOLET instead of GREEN), This would match what you are seeing, IE

 I think it is the violet one that is currently osscilating when I hit F4

1 more outstanding question before we dig into the Ditchlight challenge, 
which F-key do you use to trigger your horn?
(IE the thing that usually triggers the ditchlights to start flashing)

By default, F2 is set to "Horn", is this your preference for _also_/simultaneously triggering the ditchlights?

OR,

would you prefer the Horn and Ditchlights to be independently triggerable (IE on 2 _seperate_ function keys)?

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Hi, I usually trigger horn and flashing lights together with F2.  That's a shame about the horn, real bummer actually.  But at least I now know.

It's quite possible I mean the green instead of violet, I was esentially guessing from memory.  As they go to one or the other bulb, and it doesn't matter which bulb starts first, I wasn't making notes before I put the shell back on.  My bad.

Rob

Dear Rob,

Cool, now we have enough info to work it out... ;-)
(Please NB that the following is interpreted directly out of the Lok V4 manual.
I must stress that I do not own any Lok decoders _personally_,
so have not tested _exactly_ this combination of CV values…

The following is an _educated guess_, and hopefully gives you enough info to make sense of the Lok documentation,
so you can dbl-check the maths, and nut any further tweaks out yourself… ;-) )

To make sure we’re all aiming in the same direction:

We have our Ditchlight LEDs wired to
GREEN = AUX1
PURPLE = AUX2

We want both AUX1 and AUX2 outputs to operate as:
Default behaviour = Ditchlight ON
Trigger by = F2

Basic Concepts:

According to Page 44 of the manual

“The LokSound V4.0 provides 3 CVs for each physical output, which defines their behavior.”
(from the manual descriptions, paraphrased)

Mode Select CV: Defines which effect you want to have for the output.
(Headlight, strobe, ditchlight, Gyra, etc)
Brightness CV: Defines the brightness of each individual func­tion output in 32 steps (0 to 31).

Special function CV: Defines some further modes for each function output.

In this particular case, we specifically want to know the CV numbers for the 3 CVs which control the behaviour of AUX1 and AUX2

If I read it correctly, the “Special Functions” are modifiers which subtly tweak how the chosen “Mode” behaves.

In this particular situation, we need to lever the power of the following “Special Functions”
(from the manual descriptions, paraphrased)

- Phase Select: Alters the timing of the effect so that it is 180 degree out of phase with other effects. This creates “alternate blinking”. It is used for ditch lights mainly.

- Grade Crossing: Keeps the outputs triggered for a given time period after the F-key has been released

- LED mode: The outputs are pre-set to be used with incan­descent bulbs. If you use LEDs, you should set the LED compensation mode bit in order to get satisfying characteristics.
The light effects will be accordingly adjusted, so that the result will look more realistic again.
(Translation: LEDs turn on and off faster than normal "bulbs". For flashing and strobe-type FX, this "faster reaction tiime" can look odd. Therefore, "LED mode" adds some "fade In/Out" into the actual electrical signal, so that an LED "fades In/Out" more like a normal bulb).

Calculating the Values (DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PROGRAM CVs YET!!!):

SO, now we know _which_ CVs we need to program.

The question is, what value do we need to program into each of them?

According to the table on Page 45 of the manual, “DitchLight #1 (default ON)” is Mode Value 9

SO,

AUX1 Mode Value CV275 = 9
AUX2 Mode Value CV283 = 9

Brightness is obviously a personal thing, but as a starting point, out of an available range between

0 (zero) = “full OFF”

And

32 = “full ON”

I guess I’d probably start with a value of “20” (60% ON)?

SO, assuming this,

AUX1 Brightness Value CV278 = 20
AUX2 Brightness Value CV286 = 20

Calculating the “Special Function” CV is much like the classic CV29.
You have to choose which values you require,
(in this case, “Phase Invert” + “Grade Xing” + “LED mode”)

add the required values together,
and program the “Special Function” CV with the resulting “total value”

AUX1 “Special Function” = Grade Xing (2) +  LED Mode (128) = 130
AUX2 “Special Function” = Phase Invert (1) + Grade Xing (2) + LED Mode (128) = 131

Therefore

AUX1 Special Function CV279 = 130
AUX2 Special Function CV287 = 131

Clear as mud? ;-)
(Take a deep breath, read thru it again slowly, there’s no rush…)

The Procedure (or “actually doing it”):

Now, having worked out the 6x CVs and values we need to program to get the AUX1 and AUX2 to behave the way we want, what’s the actual process involved?

Step 1 : program CV31 = 16
Step 2 : program CV32 = 0

The V4 is now configured ready to accept the desired changes
(As I understand it, getting these CV31/32 “setup to program” values correct is critical!)

Step 3 : program CV275 = 9 (AUX1 Mode = “Ditch #1”)
Step 4 : program CV278 = 20 (AUX1 Brightness = “60%”)
Step 5 : program CV279 = 130 (AUX1 “Special Function”)

AUX1 is now configured, time to config AUX2

Step 6 : program CV283 = 9 (AUX2 Mode = “Ditch #1”)
Step 7 : program CV286 = 20 (AUX2 Brightness = “60%”)
Step 8 : program CV287 = 131 (AUX2 “Special Function”)

…and that is both AUX1 and AUX2 functions programmed…

Mapping the Outputs to a given F-key trigger:

But, hold on, we haven’t tied the triggering of _both_ AUX1 and AUX2 to the F2 key yet???

True enough. Let’s get to it… ;-)

The table on Page 46 looks pretty imposing, but there’s only really one piece that’s relevant for this particular mission.

CV378 (plus some more CV31/32 magic) holds a value which dictates what _Physical_Functions_ (lighting output wires) are triggered by a “F2” button command.

Just like the “Special Function” CVs earlier, and the classic CV29, this is another “add-the-relevant-numbers to get a single CV value” situation.

Tracing from “F2” at left, and reading across to the vertical columns that relate to AUX1 and AUX2, it looks like:

To map F2 to AUX1, we need a value of “4”
To map F2 to AUX2, we need a value of “8”

Ergo, to instruct a F2 command to trigger _both_ AUX1 and AUX2,

4 + 8 = 12

We need to program CV378 with a value of “12”

The Procedure (or “actually doing it”):

Step 1 : program CV31 = 16
Step 2 : program CV32 = 2

The V4 is now configured ready to accept the desired changes
(As I understand it, getting these CV31/32 “setup to program” values correct is critical!)

Step 3 : program CV378 = 12 (F2 Key mapped to trigger both AUX1 and AUX2)

I hope this helps,
make sure to get the latest V4 manual from
http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/
(first link on that page),

and Have a Go...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS for how-to info from modellers who _have_ actually played seriously with reprogramming Lok decoders,
consider joining the LokSound group on YahooGroups...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loksound/

Hi Professor Klyzer, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to go through this for me!  I appreciate it.  I went through your instructions step by step which was very easy to follow.

The ditch lights now come on when F2 is pressed.  They don't alternate and only one comes on when you hit F4. (the same one).

I guess this is okay for now.  I will join the yahoo group and as time permits try to learn a bit more about more complex programming.  I have a ton of work on the layout as well so I will revisit this loco in a few months perhaps.

Again, thank you for you help!

Best,

Rob

Dear Rob,

RE "F4 still triggers one of the ditchlights" issue

The "still triggers one of them with F4" issue is part of the default setting for the V4 decoder.

- Check the table on Page 46 of the manual
- In the "Function button' column, locate "F4" (F-key 4)
- Look three "cells" (Excel table speak) to the right, and note the CV # in question (CV410 in this case)

Now, trace it accross, and note that you'll find an ORANGE (highlighted) value.
This is the default value for CV410.

It is indicated as "8"

Now, follow the "8" column UP to the top, to find out what CV410, when it has a value of "8", connects to.

Looky here, that column is for AUX2 (IE one of the functions we are using for the ditchlights) ;-)

SO, how do we _disconnect_  this "F4 --> AUX2" trigger connection?

Simply program CV410 with a value of "0", so that it is "connected to nothing"

SO, following our already-established procedure

The Procedure (or “actually doing it”):

Step 1 : program CV31 = 16
Step 2 : program CV32 = 2

The V4 is now configured ready to accept the desired changes

Step 3 : program CV410 = 0 (F4 Key mapped to trigger nothing, effectively UN-mapped from AUX2)

Test this change, and confirm that this stops F4 from activating any of the ditchlight LEDs... ;-)

RE Ditchlight-flashing : Not "Alternate"

Just so we're on the same page:
- the ditchlights "come on steady" by default ("Ditchlight type 1")

- the ditchlights flash when F2 is pressed (F2 triggers AUX1 and AUX2 successfully into "Ditchlight mode")

- the ditchlights stay flashing for a period of time after the F2 key is released ("Grade crossing" mode is working)

- but both ditchlights flash _in_sync_, not "alternate" ("Phase" value is incorrect in the "Special Function" CV for 1 or both AUX functions)

Have to say I was working on a number of assumptions here.
(My bad!)

- It was _assumed_ that the "Phase" value was "Phase Invert" (add "1" to the "Special Function" CV for the AUX in question)

- It was assumed that only 1 (one) of the AUX outputs needed "inverting" to get an "Alternating flash" behaviour
(Check back thru the values, 
AUX1 Special Function CV279 = 130, 
AUX2 Special Function CV287 = 131)

I am unclear whether the valid values for the "Phase" modifier are
- 0 = "normal flash"
- 1 = "Inverted" flash (opposite of "normal")

or some other value combination.

Hopefully the guys over on the LokSound list will be able to clarify...

EDIT: Have posted the question to the LokSound yahoogroup,
they confirm that the calc'd values for CV279 and CV287 are correct as above.
(IE yes, the "Phase" is effectively a "Phase Invert", and should only be applied to _one_ of the Ditchlight/AUX outputs)

Is it possible that you may have accidentally programmed _both_ CV279 and CV287 to the _same_ value?

Try this

Step 1 : program CV31 = 16
Step 2 : program CV32 = 0
Step 3 : program CV279 = 130 (AUX1 “Special Function”, "Normal" )
Step 4 : program CV287 = 131 (AUX2 “Special Function”, "Phase" inverted flash)

just to confirm that the "Phase" bit is being applied to only _one_ of the AUX outputs... ;-)

Hope this helps...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr