I can see some good reasons why Kalmbach would chose to not include web content / web publishers in their index.

1. The web tends to be very transatory - any links to web content can break / get old very fast.
2. How do you decide what's in and what's out? eZines? Web articles? Forums?

However, MRH's philosophy is to keep all links live indefinitely. Even if we move stuff, the old links also will keep working.

We're also all about free to the modelers as much as possible. Even sticking the index behind a free sign up hides it from seach engines - which I think demonstrates a lack of understanding how the web works.

The web tends to treat requiring signup as a form of damage and ultimately routes around it. Someone will eventually make a version that doesn't require any signup - and then the version that required a signup will die on the vine.

Signing up for Trains.com which according to the release will be required to access the revived index will mean you're on their mailing e-list for various and sundry "updates" "newsletters" and just plain old advertising.   These are deleted unread when they arrive in my "suspect e-mail" bin.

It's also noted that "over two dozen" publications will be included.  I thought there were more than that in the original version of the index, but I could be wrong.

I can see some good reasons why Kalmbach would chose to not include web content / web publishers in their index.

1. The web tends to be very transitory - any links to web content can break / get old very fast.

We can always count on you Joe, to be able to see things from all angles, and I am not saying that is a bad thing.

I agree that web links can often be unreliable at best but the index need not link to MRH content.  It simply needs to provide an index of the issues and their contents.  It's up to the searcher to find the magazine and download the content.

I mean it's not like one will ever be able to search the index for an issue of Model Railroader and then click a link to go find it and read it without buying it first... like you could already with MRH...gee, how handy would that be...instant gratification for the searcher. [wink]

Even sticking the index behind a free sign up hides it from search engines - which I think demonstrates a lack of understanding how the web works.

The web tends to treat requiring signup as a form of damage and ultimately routes around it. Someone will eventually make a version that doesn't require any signup - and then the version that required a signup will die on the vine.

Joe Fugate

I look forward to the arrival of such an index.  One that includes as much web content as possible.  I see no reason why hyperlinks could not be included for web content listed in the index.  Paper based resources could have links to the magazines web space etc.  I think we all understand that sometimes links "die".  It would have to be part of the on-going maintenance of such an index, IMO.

According the MR forum thread announcing the new index:

For print magazines not produced by Kalmbach Publishing Co., we're also developing an index tool that will allow the staffs of those print magazines to easily update their information as issues are published in 2011 and beyond. We hope to have this tool ready later in 2011.

Maybe MRH will be able to add to the new index. I know Joe referenced needing a page number for the articles, but maybe the page number will not be a required field. Or if it is required now, it can be changed to accomadate the new technology.

Just a thought.

I just saw this on the MR site:

Dear Trains.com member,

We are pleased to announce that our online Model Train Magazine Index will return in January 2011.

The rebuilt index, with an updated interface, improved performance, and better search functionality, will allow you to identify information printed in more than two dozen magazines covering model railroading and prototype railroading from 2010 all the way back to 1933. Once you've found an article, you can also purchase back issues and other relevant Kalmbach Publishing Co. products from the index pages.

The new index will be available for use by all registered Trains.com members. If you're not a member, registration is quick, easy, and free. Simply click on the Register link on one of the Trains.com websites.

For print magazines not produced by Kalmbach Publishing Co., we're also developing an index tool that will allow the staffs of those print magazines to easily update their information as issues are published in 2011 and beyond. We hope to have this tool ready later in 2011.

Thank you for participating in the Trains.com community

This great as I used the old index regularly. Sure beats looking through years of mags trying to exactly remember where you saw the aqrticle youneed foar a project.

Bob B.

While I said I could understand Kalmbach's reasoning for not including internet media, I do think it's rather myopic.

MRH, on the other hand, is all about modern media, and we believe it would make sense to have an index with podcasts, videos (both offline and online) as well as ePubs (eBooks, eZines) listed in addition to traditional print publications.

Digital media do have the disadavantage that they can "go out of print" rather quickly, but they also are easy to duplicate if you can locate someone who has a copy. Every medium has its advantages and disadvantages.

A truly media savvy index initiative means you understand today's new media and see that an index that includes such new media is best for the future of the hobby. Remember that it's this new media that has the most power to attract the younger generation to the hobby.

Print media in all forms is suffering today. Building a print-medium-only index, while certainly simpler, is something of a head-in-the-sand initiative if you stop and think about what's best for the future of the hobby.

The longer print publishers try to ignore digital media, the deeper they're digging the hole they're in ...

It will not surprise me if Kalmbach requires a subscription to one of their magazines in order to access the index and truly I believe they pulled the index for just that reason in the first place.

I have been a subscriber to their Model Railroader Magazine since 1961 and I can't remember them giving much of anything away since 1985, before that they gave you your moneys worth and more.

Now with the internet taking up a nice chunk of the market and they don't have control of it so what do they do? Ignore it after using it to find out how many people actually used the old index that they really didn't know who what where or when people used it. Now that a number of people did a lot of work trying to redo it and now that the work is done they snatch it back up at no cost to them.

Dan

They may be fearful that they are somehow loosing something if a competing index comes out, but since they really can't legally copyright the concept of an index, they can't stop someone else from building a better one. 

Well, it seems to me that it's up to us as hobbyists to make sure there is another index, that does not require a sign-up to search it, that includes both paper based and electronic content.  If the NMRA will host it as such, that's where this index belongs.

As for "them" and what "they" did or didn't do, it's not all that important in the big scheme of things.  It's a good thing that "they" are going to bring back the index.  It's a resource we can all use, unless of course, "they" banned you for using the "MRH WORD" over "there", then no index for you. [wink]

So why did "they" decide to reverse the decision to axe the index anyway?

Was it the public outcry from hobbyists everywhere, that "they" promptly deleted from "their" forums?  The same public outcry that "they" typically ignore anyway? [smile]

Or maybe it was the movement to rebuild the index and take it away from "them"?  I mean it's OK to have no index, unless someone else might get one...that is not OK. [grin]

Maybe "they" suddenly realized they could bring a ton of traffic to their website by making it the portal for the index so rather than it being an annoying expense it became the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?

Perhaps "they" saw the likelihood of MRH being included in the index and the FREE instant gratification aspect of an MRH related index search result made "them" sick to "their" collective stomachs?

Maybe it was all of the above, or none!  It doesn't matter.

All that matters is what "WE" want to do about it!

Support the "OTHER" index

I think there may be a combination of reasons why Kalmbach decided to bring back the index, which are not mutually exclusive:

1) They underestimated the damage to their reputation caused when they suddenly discontinued the index (and, in my opinion, during a time when there was focus elsewhere i.e. the NMRA Convention).

2) They found a relatively inexpensive way to bring it back and the business case supported that investment (like it or not, it's still a business... even yours, Joe ).

3) They realized that there was a way to "monetize" it: collecting e-mail addresses from registrants, at least to send out ads for now (just got another one yesterday) and perhaps as a prelude to putting up a paywall once you're "hooked"; and also as a vehicle to sell back issues and/or digitized articles from their magazines.

4) Realizing that another competing index removes a potential competitive advantage that (I assume) gives equal weight to all periodicals.