I've seen changes in railroad equipment over the years. when I was a kid the freight cars showed the effects of the fading  steam era so still had dust and soot on the roofs, the difference between a washed PFE reefer and a dirty one was quite obvious. When the diesels took over the cars looked the same for a few years but gradually started to show more rust under their dust and grime as the railroads had to cut costs due to declining business from truck competition, at this point a washed PFE reefer didn't look much better than a dirty one. As the cars deteriorated the tagger showed up and probably improved the scene by covering rust with color :>) .As the mergers and economic slow downs culled older cars from the fleet the rust buckets became less common and today the fleet looks to be in relatively good condition under the colorful overcoats it wears. 

The modelers problem is to find photos of the cars one wants in the desired era then the weathering will make sense. As Jim noted to do it wrong for the era or prototype  is distracting to the scene. One trick I like to use is to do one side of the car mildly or moderately weathered and do the other side more heavily weathered and tagged, that way I  cars with 2 scenic possibilities for the price of one. The other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of modelers weather and tag their cars for fun and to create a certain atmosphere for their layout , they are impressionistic pieces of the puzzle not just strict models of a prototype so they look the way they do for a reason. ....DaveB

Jim - An interesting conversation here, with some good points made by many.  I'll attempt to present my viewpoint in such a way that you can understand where I (and others) may come from.

My answer to the question of ' are modelers focusing too much on extreme weathering'?  It depends.  Let me explain:

1.) It depends on what era you are modeling.  As stated in earlier posts, if you are modeling an earlier time period cars and locomotives often were a bit cleaner and/or more maintained.  Also, and I may be completely off on this point, I suspect that cars from an earlier era (I'm thinking wooden cars here) probably weren't around as long as some of the cars we see on the rails today.

When we look at today's equipment, many of the cars that are in a such a rough state have been around for quite some time.  In addition, and probably more important, is that many of these cars are on their 2nd or 3rd owner.  Why are they no longer owned by the original entity?  Likely because the original entity went under, was merged or bought out, or they sold the equipment after it had fulfilled its useful role.  The cars may have been completely neglected due to lack of finances from the original owners, and the current leasing companies often do not do much cosmetically to the cars besides a quick restencil.

Also, as previously mentioned, contemporary railroading is now plagued with graffiti which adds to the overall decrepit appearance of some cars.

Bill's video shows pretty well the variation in weathering among modern equipment.  Many are heavily weathered, most are moderate, and a few are clean.  This is what I see myself when I see modern trains.  Keep in mind that modern railroading is what I model....I'm virtually clueless when it comes to earlier time periods.

2.) It depends on what equipment you are modeling.

As pointed out, tank cars seem to be relatively new and clean these days.  Probably because of the shorter lifespan and greater restrictions on construction.  Modeling new boxcars and such would obviously nesessitate them being clean.  

However, there is some equipment which is bound to become severely rusted and/or beat up.  Old hoppers pressed into salt service come to mind.  Older gondolas would be the same.  Coal hoppers/gons get very dirty even after a few years of service.  The older ARMN reefers are getting pretty rusty at this point and are covered by graffiti.

3.) It depends on what your modeling goals are.

There are many, many ways to enjoy this hobby.  Some build layouts and empires for operations, running, and enjoyment.  Others model and weather specific prototypes, without any desire to run them on a dedicated layout.  I find myself somewhere in the middle.

I, and others, enjoy weathering the so-called 'rustbuckets' because they are visually appealing, and present a real challenge to replicate.   I find a lot of satisfaction in trying replicate complicated weathering patterns and effects.  I learn new techniques on every model that I do.  It keeps me engaged and looking forward to the next challenge.

On the other hand, I also build and weather with a layout in mind.  I model a specific location and time period, therefore I model what I see.  Many of the cars and locomotives I've done are lighter weathering jobs because of this.  It turns out that 'lighter' weathering jobs often take more time and work than you would think.

For example:

In contrast, some of the heavier jobs:

So what's the best way to go?  It depends.  Different eras, equipment, and modeling goals will pretty much decide what the modeler does.  Is it bad to model "rustbuckets"?  No.  Is modeling rustbuckets un prototypical?  No, it again depends on what you're modeling.  Individual modelers need to decide what is appropriate for them.  If someone is modeling a prototype, they should research what cars and locomotives look like during the time period they are modeling and weather accordingly.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.  Sorry for the novel.

-Kevin

Agree with Jim Six. Much of today's stuff is over done, especially with the rust. That's not to say that you shouldn't have a few of these super-weathered cars. You SHOULD. Remember Gary's cover shot couple months ago with the SOO boxcar? That was absolutely killer, but I'd hesitate at having more than a few of those on a railroad. The rest should be pretty ordinary...not too clean, not too nasty.

Same goes for diesels. I'm in 1984. Here are a few photos illustrating the point. Use photos as inspiration, and  in the words of Jim Boyd .."vary the imagery." Note the Maine Central 802 paint. It is flat and dull, but the unit was recently washed. Not much to do. Basic light weathering. The Maine Central 407...different story. Tons of soot blow-off all over the thing. Has not seen a wash rack in some time. Same goes for D&H 408. And note the Allagash Alco compared to the D&H and Maine Central Alcos..they all look a bit different, and blend. That's the key. Only a couple locos or cars should should stand out and say..."look at me!"

I don't think it's so critical to get an exact match if weathering to a prototype photo. Weathering changes day to day, depending on weather and so many other conditions. A good idea is to aim to capture the overall feel. 

...I view most weathered models as either over or poorly weathered.

That's my impression too, Jim.  Hobbyists new to weathering especially tend to overdo things.  That extends beyond equipment to structures and track.

The general appearance of rolling stock was different in my era (1982 and a few years prior) than today.  I have some heavily weathered cars, but most are more subtle like these.

Guys,

If you do nothing else get rid of the toy like sheen, add a light coat of Dullcoat. When I weather my cars and engines I always use a prototype photo and model to that. If you try to weather the way you think it should be chances are you will overdo it and make the car look way overdone. Check out my Videos on TrainmastersTV on Extreme Weathering, there's 5 of them and they started with Act I in April 2014. My method allows you to do as little or as much as you need. Here is the link, http://trainmasterstv.com/videos/2014-04-1-tmtv-apr-2014-edition-act-i

I guess what it all comes down to is, 'it's your railroad and you have to be happy with the rollingstock on your railroad.

I love the weathering Mike Confalone has done with his engines and cars, he has done some spectacular work.

Ralph Renzetti (CN6401)

Hi Jim,

I use the age of the cars to impact the degree of weathering used.  Working backward from new and shiny, dull, dirty, faded, rusted and beyond.

The era you model is also a big factor, depression, recession, modern taggers.

Where does the car spend most of it's time?  In the industrial east-coal soot and grime, desert southwest-faded and dusty, rusty-seacoast and so on.

I prefer a variety of weathering levels and techniques on my layout, but it's an artistic choice 

The thing with weathering we intend to remember the beat up rolling stock on the road and we don't even notice the average car. And so when we do our models we seem to over do it. I have always enjoy weathering my cars and I am also so guilty of over doing it. I am getting better at it. Today I received a new 40 footer HY-Cube from Ebay, see   http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/18011?page=21 and I am planning to weather the car. This time I decided to try using decals from Weathering Solutions.  http://www.weatheringsolutions.com/ 

They were introduce in one of the issues from our MRH Magazines. So I am going to start with that and give it a try and see. I order two sheets from them and see how good it is.

I agree that many of the rust bucket weathering jobs seem to be overdone or perhaps are based on extreme examples of prototype weathered cars.  For my models I do model from photographs and at least for my era rust buckets were the exception.  I try to model the average car more than the extreme since it helps on a model railroad since a rust bucket is much more noticeable.  It is easy to remember that rust bucket rolling through again and again as opposed to a more average car.

Another thing to remember that not all cars had a totally flat finish.  Often some parts of the car could dirty while other parts of the car due to rain might be much cleaner.  Here is my example:

The car has some dirt applied but the ribs are much cleaner.  The newer green paint is cleaner than the rest of the car and the recently applied consolidated stencil has no weathering at all.  

You know, it seems to me that the reason some believe that the model press is promoting the rust bucket weathering, is because there are a lot of photos of that currently in the magazines. It's a unique and interesting look. Still, as much as I appreciate the rust bucket weathering, it never occurred to me to do an entire fleet that way, and I don't think the modelers who are at the forefront of this class of weathering (or any other modelers) do either.

We all (I believe) like the look of weathered equipment, which is why weathering is now considered a mandatory skill, even if it is just a light dusting of dull coat. It adds to the realism of the model and the layout. Let's face it, if you're modeling today, and you've got a GP40-2 or two, they are going to be rust buckets. Simple age, and repair work is enough to cause that, no matter the climate, and aside from models of small logging railroads, the modern era is where I have mostly seen the rust bucket weathering. Certainly, that is true of the rolling stock.

This month's article on building the two cabooses, also had them looking about ready to fall apart, but again, they were old equipment, running on a small logging line, where lack of resources and temporary fixes had become permanent due to higher priority matters. At least, that's the way I looked at it. They have what we used to call character, and that is exactly the reason the article got published. They were rust buckets, not because they had a lot of rust, but because of the dilapidated look. Do I expect all the cabeese on the author's layout to look like that? No. Old, and used, yes, but not falling apart.

I think that because there are a lot of rust bucket pictures in the model press, and the forums, some people have gotten the wrong impression, and believe that modelers are by and large only weathering rust buckets, because that is what they are seeing published and posted.

Remember, one of the purposes of photography is to distort reality. I think that is what has happened here. The large representation of rust bucket models has made it appear that everyone is doing only rust bucket weathering.

Jim

 Glad to see you back.

  Well far be for anyone to disagree with the master, and Jim is the master when it comes to weathering, I worked in the Albany NY area in the late 70s and the beautiful D&H lightning stripe Alcos were almost black from the lack of cleaning with a lot of the paint almost gone. All my photos are on slides so I can't post them. I believe it has already been said though, that was probably the exception and not the rule.  At about the same time I would rail fan  Sandpatch and the Chessie engines were very well maintained. 

                                                                                                                                       Ray Schofield