Some thoughts ...

Dear CSX4451 (?):

I will assume you are modeling in HO scale and fairly modern era.  
The room is a decent size but not clear if there are windows or how to access the space. Considering a dog bone or around the room with gate or lift-out entry?

Any interest in staging or “beyond the layout”? 
Do you have a favorite location or railroad?

What industries appeal to you?

My first thought is that a sizable yard is going to eat up all your real estate and won’t do modern railroading justice in 16’. The idea of an industrial park, however, has some merit. This could include a yard for mainline set out and pick up cars to and from the industrial area. You may also want to consider a short line with interchange with one of the big boys.  That would give you some flexibility to run the big engines as well as do lots of switching. 
 

My two cents for now. 

Good ideas

Thank you for your input! The prototype is the modern CSX RF&P Sub in HO Scale. The full room is 11x12, however, most of the room is otherwise occupied. I'll consider an interchange, maybe make a fictional CSX/NS interchange. Staging does sound like a good idea, I'll think about how to incorporate that.

I really like the Walthers Cornerstone Industries, and am planning for their cement plant and oil storage tanks.The industrial park would be a good setting for those industries.

It seems, as we get older,

It seems, as we get older, some of us seniors get confused easily. I guess I am one of those. I REALLY need help. I have been toying for over a year with layout ideas, and tried laying track, and starting that way to get ideas. I guess I am just a dummy when it comes to designing. I have a drawing of my room. I isn't huge, but, I do not have the space at this time for a large area to b e available. Hopefully before I am gone from this world, I will have a completely separate building for my trains ONLY! lol!!!

I couldn't seem to get the picture reduced, so, if you right click and download it, you will see the complete drawing. 1/2" = 1 Foot.

This is HO scale... and I am using DCC.

Here is what I am trying to do:

I would like a double track mainline, making three rounds around this area, going to a couple of different track height. It should make 3 rounds on the layout, whether on elevated, or main level, but, I would like enough level and elevated to put some industry on all of it. Tunnels are a;ways a possibility. Maybe I can make a lower level, for a bigger staging.

I do not have the room to model the area I want to, so it will have to be a route that is fiction, but, does meet my needs.

I would like to have 2 separate stations, like in the corners(opposite). I have several push-pull bi level commuter cars and cabs. and maybe a little stop halfway through the route.(enough for 4 or 5 different configs for commuters back and fort from each main).

I want to get as many yard tracks in the MAIN yard, and a small 2 or 4 track storage midway through for industries.

I will have a coal mine, a power plant, many warehouses clumped together in building faces to save room, and give more industry.

I' would lie to have a few service tracks in the main yard.

If i need to make 2 layers, I would like to make the upper layer use regular inclination of the track from each level, then so be it.

No turn table, no wye's, maybe a single track long spur going to industries, wit a couple of short passing tracks off the main.

I am making my own turnouts. I have decided, only #6 for main line, and #4 for yards is needed.

I have all there is needed to make them as I need them, so, don't hold back!! lol!!

I would consider some double slips.

30" minimum radius if possible. Everything else I am very open to.

I HATE asking for help. I am beginning to feel incompetent, even though I had a fair size layout many years ago, and lost it all during hurricane Harvey.

I cannot afford to hire someone. I am disabled, and retired. At 65, I just want to enjoy my hobby to the max...

Thank you everyone, for the chance to hear y'all out, and get some ideas, and then I can manage to do the rest. I am just brain dead when it gets to this design, and I am getting really frustrated. I live out in the country, away from the BIG CITY, but, that should be ab asset later n when I want to have my shed building delivered.

Hopefully, a 25' x 15' shed is only $5000. so I'll order one when I get the house paid off in 5 years, and transfer all of it to there,where I have LESS limitations.

Here is my room dimensions/drawing:

I cannot thank all of you enough.... but, thanks again for ANY help!!!

Blessings to all....

Taz...

FORGOT TO SAY, i AM IN ho

FORGOT TO SAY, i AM IN ho SCALE!!!

NS/CSX/BN

Taz - feel free to email off this site. You may want to start a new Topic to get more response and let CSX have a spot to post his ideas and garner support.  
 

Perhaps a moderator can help with this?

My profession is as an architect and solving problems comes with that training. My interest in layout design predates my profession by a decade but my interests are set in steam. Happy to help anyone but my experience has lead me to a “less is more” philosophy. Getting started with any dream layout is hard because “we want it all”. This is exciting but can end up in frustration as if trying to cram 10# of flour into a 5# bag. 
 

Advice to both of you is chose the one, right only one, “must have” scene and work everything else in later. Get that switching area, or double track mainline, down on paper and don’t do anything more until track is down and trains running. You may find that you are having so much fun that doing more isn’t as important and can take a back burner. 

How to Post Pictures

Dear BNSF-FAN,

For a How-to in posting pictures here on MRH, check the following thread...
(Inc how to resize so it shows correctly within the forum post at max 750 pixels wide,
_and_ automatically creates a "click to see the full size image" behaviour!)

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/help/how-to-post-an-image

I also respectfully second Neil's reccomendation. As this thread was started for CSX4451's layout, 
you will likely get more-focussed responses if you start a seperate new thread for your particular layout.

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Well I guess I will be the

Well I guess I will be the nay sayer.

Your problem is trying to put 25 lbs into a 2 pound jar.

You want to run large modern desiels on 24” radius on a layout that is 6” by 10’?  If you assume 6” from track edge you get at best 1’-8” strait away on the short ends and 6’-2” on the long ends.  
And you want two yards?  
plus switching?!?

Plus Engine storage area?

Your problem is you can’t get all in this small of a space in HO. Something has to go.

-Doug M

3 phases

byron henderson of Layout Vision described the 3 phases he works thru when developing a layout for others:

1. understanding the features the owner would like to have
2. understanding the limitations of the size and shape of the space and if and how those features can fit together in that space
3. work on the technical limitations (e.g. curve radii, turnout sizes) to implement the final design.

of course, the owner may need to make compromises in step 2

a sizable yard yet only 3 industrial spurs seems incongruous.    what about staging?  destinations for the trains on each of those yard tracks

This might help

Hi BNSF,

Check out LANCE MINDHEIM site:  https://lancemindheim.com/category/design/

One of the better advices you can get on: being realistic, strait forward designs, essential things to consider, real info on what to avoid, etc.

Success

Filip

Clearly the wants in this

Clearly the wants in this layout really have the can fits outnumbered in a big way. There is a way to do something similar to what you desire. I would suggest a single track twice around plan with an industrial area on one side and a yard on the other. Staging could be behind the area with scenery.

Fitting the most in?

In the good old spaghetti bowl days we typically would design this as a double tracked oval with crossover and spurs angling into the center from both sides. Spurs from bottom left toward top right would be yard, spurs from top right to bottom left would be industries. Any space left would be scenery :> ) ......DaveB

I planned in stages and built in stages as I planned

I'm by no means a layout design guy but the one I have now is my most fully realized one ever. It's an L shape in approximately the same sized room. Although I vaguely knew what i wanted, the second leg of the "L" wasn't planned until the first leg had been planned and revised and was well under way. I wanted a lot of stuff too but in the end I had to prioritize. I have most everything I wanted but a couple of things got left out and will have to wait till when and if I get more space. For now, I lost  a decent sized yard and a river harbor barge scenario because of lack of space. They are of importance to me but other things were just higher on the list. That's the way you have to do it IMO.

Ideas

Dear Taz,

Have you tried trackplanning software? I personally find SCARM helpful in envisioning the space you have to work with, and you can play around with different designs. About your requirements, I think that you will have to make some compromises. I am working with a similar space, and I will attach my trackplan when it is finished. But I agree with Neil, a yard simply eats up too much space, and two would be out of the question. 30" minimum radius is stretching it in your space, but if it is a must, you may have to make other compromises. 24" or 26" minimum radius would probably be better. Like I said, trackplanning software is better than paper and pencil, because you can imagine more realistically the space you have. You also might have to cut down on those industries. 

Some Thoughts

Hi CSX,

Some questions come to mind from your post:

1. Is this the first layout you've built?  Is it your "dream" layout?
2. What motivates you to build a layout?  Do you love the modern CSX?  Or have a favorite spot you railfan?  Or are you fascinated by intermodal yards?
3. What is your budget?  I wouldn't let owning one $20 switch influence the build of a layout that might cost you hundreds or thousands in the long run.
4. Which three things on your list are the MOST important?
5. Is there any flexibility to your space constraints?

If you like to read and are so inclined, I might suggest you get a copy of John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation"  I've read it multiple times.  It will help you identify your "must haves" (givens) and "would like to have" (druthers) in your layout.  It will also give you a good idea of exactly what will fit in given spaces, and what layout shapes are possible.

And, keep posting your ideas here.  There are a lot of gifted people who can help you along.  Remember to have fun!

Thanks

Thanks for your help!

This is my first layout, and my brother and I are working on it together.

Our original intention was to not model any sort of prototype, have all different road names and basically freewheel it when it came to prototype. That changed when we went railfanning two weeks ago (on the RF&P). We were always going to model the modern era, but railfanning the CSX line got us interested in that specific place.

We do have kind of a small annual budget, but I have already solved the problem of the #4 turnout. It will obviously not be used for mainline ops, but we have several GP40s that handle the turnout well and in the partially finished trackplan I incorporated it in the industrial park, so that is not a problem.

The three most important things are:

1. Lots of switching

2. Two rail mainline

3. 24" minimum radius

And no, 6' by 10.5' is the most room we have.

I am pretty satisfied with my trackplan so far, will post when it is finished.

First...

First thing we do is make that room bigger...

Randy

Less is More

If your desire is to be able to run a train or two and tinker around, then a simple one town or one industry layout might be perfect for you.  The older I get the more I am beginning to realize that less really is more.  We have plenty of demands for our time; family, job, other hobbies that the amount of time we have to spend on projects is usually much shorter.  I admire those that are able to build large basement filling layouts, but I just don't think I'll ever have a house with a basement (California drawback) and even if I did I think that less is more.  I enjoy switching, but I also enjoy being able to operate long trains occasionally so Free-mo is a good fit for me.  We have about 3 setups per year and when my modules are connected to others to form a layout I can run longer trains and if I want to switch a few industries building a few modules that I can setup at home and enjoy. 

Even if you don't desire to go the full modular route, perhaps a smaller simpler single industry or single industrial park to model would be perfect.  

Use google maps satelite view to find some industries/industrial parks in your desired modeling area then feel free to contact me for some assistance with track planning ideas, as it's something I have found that I really enjoy.  

A simple layout will need a few key things:

1. Staging which could just be a starting pair of tracks, a small yard, or even an interchange.

2. Large industry or industrial park

3. Simple out of the box turnouts and flextrack, combined with a couple of locomotives and some freight cars.

Time to get out of the chair and get to action!

Dan Risdon

CSX RF&P

I looked at the CSX RF&P and found this runs from Richmond, VA to Washington DC.  

Doswell is the town on the line that has a junction and interchange with another railroad.  I looked at this on Google and as you can see there's two potential industries and a small yard.  

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8649643,-77.4592384,207m/data=!3m1!1e3

Go a little further and we find Bear Island Paper,/White Birch Paper ah ha, a big industry:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bear+Island+Paper+Co+WB+LLC/@37.8198253,-77.435545,301m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b1309d009e853b:0x12c50d83197593df!8m2!3d37.819049!4d-77.4336141

This plant doesn't look entirely active now, but you can see that at one point they received coal for their power plant and steam power.  At one time it even appears they received wood or woodchips by rail as you can see where they removed at turnout and spur into the woodchip yard:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8192537,-77.4391822,112m/data=!3m1!1e3

Paper plants need 50' boxcars to ship finished goods out and they had two spurs for these.  So loaded coal hoppers, loaded woodchips/pulpwood (gons/flats), chemicals (tankcars) [you can see they had a dedicated 2 track spur for these], and empty 50' boxcars inbound and empties out plus loaded 50' boxcars. 

I think this would be a perfect industry to focus on.

Layout Designing and implimenting... MANY MANY THANKS!!!

WOW!!! I am  bit over whelmed!! THANK YA'LL VERY MUCH!!! ANY layout would be a dream layout to me. I had a layout before Hurricane Harvey hit. It wasn't complete, and it was smaller than this one. I basically lost everything... pretty close to $80,000 worth of BNSF and other road named cars Being retired, and disabled, my retirement income is giving me a struggle to rebuild. I moved away from Houston, and out in the country after Harvey. to a ranch home in the country. I am in process of trying to purchase the things I want, and need, so it will be slow, but,. I will post updates and progress... and hopefully, not too many problems doing so...

So MANY answers from all of you!!! I want to thank each and every one of you for your help, and encouragement!! After reading all of these, and looking at some plans... I FOUND one, that will WORK, and fit my needs, except ONE! But, I think ya'll can help me figure the rest out. I have included a picture. I would have post this in another startup column, but I didn't figure out how to start it up at first, until a little earlier. The added extra loop I would like to have, could be on a risers to the upper level, but, I am a bit confused on how I may implement it, without moving TOO much around. This plan is a nice one for me. It has about all the industry I would want, for now, and I am in the process of implementing the first part of it tomorrow. HALF of the bench work frame is already in place on the walls around the area.(I will include a pic of that too.

I am still a bit overwhelmed by the response... But I am VERY thankful for all of your advice and direction. I will have more questions as I build.

The FIRST one would be, where should I alter this to do another elevated lap of the track. I would like the double loop main line.

How would ya'll do this? right now, that is the only thing I would add. If it cannot be done, I would not be unhappy about it, I just want a longer mainline run, so as to operate several trains, and operations in the future.

I am trying to keep it simple, and this one made my heart jump, and grabbed my attention!!

Have at it folks!!! I will certainly do what I can to help others with my simple talents when needed.

Blessings to ya'll!!!!

Taz...

Too Complex

I've seen that layout plan before, but if you compare it to the actual paper mill it doesn't even closely match and I think it's too complex.  The plant is a big siding with 3 spurs off of the south side, one for tankcars, one for woodchips/pulpwood and one for boxcars.  Why not do it like that?

Too complex

  Yeah, we're talking about two different layouts in one thread. 

    To get back to the original layout , Is the 6 by 10.5 measurement the room size or the space available for the layout( can you walk around the 6 by 10.5 space or is it the walls? Makes a big difference on what will fit.......DaveB

CSX RF&P

Dear Dan,

I appreciate your suggestions, but I am just loosely sticking to the prototype, and I do not have enough room to model a junction. In the trackplan that I am working on, a fictional Norfolk Southern line interchanges with the CSX mainline. I also have planned an industrial park with fictional Walthers Cornerstone industries, along with two small stub ended yards and staging.

Room Space

Dear Dave, the 6 by 10.5 is the space available, the actual room is 11 by 12. The 6 by 10.5 space is in the walls, too.

 "the actual room is 11 by

So if I understand it correctly you couldn't build a 6 foot by 10.5 foot table and walk around the outside of it? Sounds like you'll have to access the layout from the center? ....DaveB