It should work

Hello Jack,

I had done this on the layout I just took apart and will do the same thing on it’s replacement. I know it violates all current layout building advice, but making a Duck-under can really open a lot of layout ideas that walk around pikes can’t match.

Some advice based on experience: make the duck-under as short as possible. Make it as high as practical (at least use the thinnest layout structure possible here such as 1 by 2 framing rather than 1 by 4). If your normal bench work is say 24” wide maybe narrow it to 18” at the duckunder point. 

I designed my bench work so that it basically ended at either side of the passage so that legs were on both sides of  the duckunder. The track bridged this gap like a Bridge. I attached short lengths of handrail to each pair of legs and just pulled myself through the “tunnel” while sitting on an old office swivel chair. I also put strips of white tape on the floor indicating where it was safe to raise my head. Your idea of using the plastic floor covering is a good idea that will really help.

As a rule I don’t like high benchwork at all, but it’s about 50 inchs at the duck under and worked well. Next time, just to be safe, I’ll add some sort of padding to the roof of the duck under. No harm in being cautious.

Good luck, I think it’ll all work out well.

Barry P 

@Jack

I do what you are thinking.  I have an old office chair (armless) that I lowered as far as possible, and sit on it and scoot around under my layout (40" to the bottom of the benchwork).  Not on carpet, or carpet protectors, though.  My floor covering is laminate.  Of course I conk my noggin occasionally, and get a crick in my neck if I stay under there too long, but other than that, it works out pretty well.  

Al Carter

Good idea

I actually have an office chair in the middle so I can sit while working on the hidden track. The lift out portion wants to warp in the changing humidity so needs to be rebuilt like a guitar with radial bracing (or something!) in the meantime I’ve crawling under and using the chair to “scoot” has not crossed my mind until you mentioned it. 

Works for some

I tried it but unfortunately it didn't work for me. It has to do with my mobility issues (legs don't work worth a sh*t anymore). 

I think that if you tend to stay in the layout room for long periods of time it could work great. My space is very small so a lot of my supplies and larger tools are just outside the room so I go back and forth a lot. For me that was the deal breaker. Not only did I need to use it often but when taking tools and supplies back and forth the chair was dangerous for me as I didn't always have the use of my hands to stabilize myself and the chair and I had great difficulty which really wore me out and worse case resulted in the chair scooting out from under me............it went one way and I went to the floor.

 Anyway.....I think that you will really enjoy the higher benchwork for the layout and if you have strong legs go for it. I do suggest that before starting construction get a chair, fill your arms and hands with stuff and scoot around a little and get in and out of the chair holding on to your stuff. Repeat 6-8 times. If you have no issues you are good to go.

Thanks

So the idea seems to pass the test then. We'll see what other comments come along.

Neil I have been using the all fours method of getting in and out of the center if I have been operating. It gets old. My back is ok still at 68 yrs and so are my legs. It helps that my side yards and most of the back yard is one long hill and I am using a self propelled mower on it. So long as I can do that I know I am still in pretty decent shape for an old critter.

Barry your description of your layout matches what I was thinking almost exactly. 1x2's are a good idea along with a bit of padding. Based on what Rick says about getting stuff back and forth, maybe a small cart of some sort that can be pushed or pulled through? And the handrails is a good idea too.

My layout is currently at 381/2 inches. So the 50in height will take a bit of getting used to and my wife who likes the helicopter view I trust will get used to it too. What I don't want to do is build a taller layout and still have to duck to get in to it!!! Now all I have to do is figure out when I can do this.

Jack

Plastic Floor Mats

I use the plastic floor mats in my library to roll between two desks. They work fine, to a point. Over time they will crack in areas where they receive the most use. Not to fear, duct tape saves the day. The duct tape will pick up some times and I just add another layer. Glenn

"I am having trouble with my

  Maybe you can fix the bridge problem? I use a tool chest draw clasp to hold my bridge in the closed position. A positve clasp indexes the rails no matter what the rest of the benchwork is doing. ....DaveB

Friend's Layout

I have a friend and fellow club member, who uses what you describe for layout access. He has a drop down section that is raised up across the doorway when it is time for the operating session. Once the hinged drop down section is in place a short stool with wheels is used to roll under the drop down section blocking the door way. It does work, however at the height of his layout, it does require ducking down, at least at my size, to the point of almost having one's head between their knees. It is a less than ideal situation, but necessary for the design of the layout in the space available there. Jim

 I had a duckunder,for about

I had a duckunder,for about a week. The 2nd time I tried to enter with both my hands full, it came out.

I now have a simple lift out. Just a piece of 1X6 that fits in a slot, and hangs on hook when not needed.

For whatever reasons I find myself operating more as a point to point now, . So the liftout is seldom used. but ther if needed

I use a bar stool

my duck under has a 48" clearance. I hate it but can't figuer out how to eliminate it. 

My small layout uses a center cockpit. I use a bar stool to sit on.

I sure wish this forum had spell check available.

Bob

Agree with DaveB

I agree with Dave, try to directly fix the primary problem first, and only go for an involved work-around after all attempts have failed.  It should be far easier to fix the swing gate than to raise the whole layout, which might result in follow-on problems. And if you want flawless operation you need to fix the swing gate so it lines up perfectly anyway. 

I bet if you post a couple pictures of how you have your gate constructed you'll get all kinds of suggestions on how to improve its action or reduce sag. Some of them will probably even be good suggestions, lol. 

If you'd said "I've been wanting to raise my layout ever since I got it built and this swing gate is the excuse I've been waiting for" then that would be different. 

Yes, tools can be a handful!

Bringing tools into the interior area of duck under layouts can indeed be a drag. In my enthusiasm I hadn’t thought of that before with my last layout. It entered my mind eventually to build a shelf under the layout toward the room side of the layout. The benchwork there was about 32” wide and I built a shelf across the entire width about 30 “ above the floor. I stored tools on this and they were easy to reach from either outside the layout or in the interior. Of course the one thing I needed was usually sitting across the room, but hey, what’s new?

Barry P.

Thanks Again

If I do this it is going to be at least a couple of months down the road. It's a big change and project considering how much reconstruction I would have to do to raise it up.

But mean time adding a clasp or locking mechanism of some sort just might solve the issue. Off to Lowes tomorrow I hope.

Barry I believe you commented about a spell checker. It's there if you know which magic keys to push. It is an older software that powers this discussion board and for now it is what we have. SO TRY THIS....control and right click at the same time. you will get suggestions for dealing with misspelled words.

Jack

Why not build a rolling cart

Why not build a rolling cart for the things you need to bring in?  Roll in and then pull the cart behind you with a cord. Just make it low enough to clear the layout. Second if this works for you then you can make your gate semi permanent and only use it for rare special occasions. If it is too much for you to build something you can buy small tool carts that should do the job.

Cart

I thought I had mentioned this but maybe not. Anyway Rob it is a great idea and you reminded me of a gift my wife picked up last year for working under the layout. It's one of those roll around short stools so yo don't have to sit on the floor. Problem is that because of my current layout height I can't use it so it is tucked away out of the way. I think I will pull it out and see if I can use it. Now that I think of it maybe if I duck far enough over I can roll through on it? Not the ideal but better maybe then getting on my knees and crawling through like I do now if I don't want to swing the gate out of the way. That move by the way requires sliding 4 rail joiners to move the gate and put them back again.

Jack

Stool Follow Up

Just tried rolling through on the stool. I have to bend over to far. It's actually easier to crawl through.

Jack

Jack

You REALLY need to re-design your gate so no rail joiners are involved. Not that hard.

 Your body will thank you in the long term.

"You REALLY need to re-design

  Yeah, even if it was hard it's worth the trouble. With my positive locking clasp and magnetic latch to hold the gate open it only takes seconds to open or close it so I can walk in anytime I want.......DaveB  

Creeper?

If a low rolly stool doesn’t do the trick, how about a creeper?  ( Something like this.)  Might be easier to kneel on and scoot through rather than crawl through on hands and knees.  You could lean it up against the layout under the duckunder for easy access from both sides.

A tool cart is nice in general for layout work, wether or not it helps with the duckunder.  Great way to try to reduce the number of tools that end up on the layout, and nice way to collect tools and supplies from various shelves for a particular project.

Swing Bridge design

When I built my Swing Bridge I installed a rest on each end to keep it at the same level.  I used a ball latch to keep it in place when closed.  For working under the layout I build a simple rollaround with a reclining Subaru bucket seat and a furniture dolly.

Pictures

Hmmm for some reason Pic's are not uploading

Photos

So far there aren't any photos posted. What I am going to do with this layout is still very much undecided. I am working on clearing up I HAVE some health issues of my own and until I see which way things are going to go very little is getting done.

Having said that, Odyknuck your rolling chair sounds interesting. Using a furniture dolly with it's small wheels might be an issue with carpet. Is it? or do you have a hard surface in your train room?

Jack

Another option...

How high is the ceiling outside the layout room?  Perhaps something like this would work: 

Randy

Harbo Freight has both

Harbo Freight has both rolling stools (one with a tool tray) and carts that would sovle most of your issues...