I can hear the power tools from here

That’s what I’m doing

my turn

Try using some of the cad systems of designing your layout. You'll get a feel of what it'll look like when done. choose the one that's easy for you to learn. Think there a blog/topic that someone has a database for layout designs that other members did. I'm using SCARM for my layout design. & that way I can have 2 or designs to choose from. Here's the link for SCARM to get the free version or buy it.

https://www.scarm.info/index.php

Thanks guys I am going to do

Thanks guys I am going to do it!!! Oh those "blue things" is my natural gas boiler for heat and hot water.

I was thinking 2 tier layout top tier passenger line with homes and businesses lower tier freight with industry. Both will be L Shaped with 8 ft run that turns into a 20ft run. There really is no need to have them both run along the same tracks. The passenger line will have two towns connected by a tunnel. The Freight will be two freight yards separated by a lifetime of operations.

My Freight loco is DCC ready Bowser so I may go DCC with it. My Passenger logo is a Proto 2000 Alco S9 if I can get someone to teach me to make it DCC I will make it DCC as well. In the mean time I have 2 DC transformers. I don't even need my trains to loop. I have ridden Amtrak when the locomotive pushed us for an hour to the last stop on the line.

You're not gonna like this...

You may not want to hear this, but I would suggest finishing that room before you start on the new layout. Tear out what you have, get a ceiling, some lighting, and paint the walls and floor.  I know its hard to put off starting on the layout right away, been there, done that. But, you will be glad you did later. 

Randy

Basement redo

First, if you can possibly come up with the funding:

1. Suspended ceiling - hide wiring, plumbing, provide fro recessed (Troffer) lighting. Only need 5" from joists to ceiling.

2.Then finish out the walls, at least in part of the cellar that's going to be your train area. May require moving area to a corner/end of the basement.

3. Have walls wired. Worth the expense. Lighting needs to be professionally installed also. 2x2 LED Troffers are only ~$50-55 today.

4. If floor is dry, level, not all cracked, etc., install 2x2 heavy duty carpet tiles. the ones with dense, almost hard rubber backing and very low pile. Like what you would see in a store. Again, worth every dollar.

In other words, get your environment set up first. You'll be glad you did. This can be all done while you're planning a better layout. If the funding just isn't there, then go ahead with plan A, and finish the room later.

Marshall

Room vs layout

I'm going to add a 3rd vote to do the room first. At the very least put in more light.

If the layout itch to build a layout becomes too much to with stand doing the TOMA a section at a time will make it far easier to still finish the room and have a layout to work on.

Put your lights on a different circuit then your wall outlets.

And having a finished basement will make selling the house 30 years from now much easier.

Jack

Incidentally...

Don't mourn the time "lost" on the first version. You had fun, didn't you? Remember:

The point of model railroading is model railroading, not A model railroad.

pqe

Appreciate all the advice.

Appreciate all the advice. Already planning on most of those suggestions. 

Not mourning the time lost it at all. My wife runs a daycare out of the house and I don't work Mondays so Mondays in the basement is my refuge!

Inspiration...

Maybe I can offer a little inspiration. See the ceiling behind the obviously slacking crew? That is what my whole area looked like before I did the ceiling and lights. By the way, take "before" photos, something I wish I had done, but didn't. 

Here is the other side, with a ceiling and lights and sky blue backdrop. Mo betta, no? 

Randy

@ Dan

Hi Dan,

That basement picture says, “this time around make so it will be able to fill the whole basement.”  (Over time). Give the washer and drier a little more room than I did and remember to leave a path for the washer, drier, hot water heater and furnace to get out of the basement for replacement if necessary.  Also keep the plans for the helix to the den upstairs to yourself.

it also looks like a couple strategically placed saw cuts could make a place to recombine and conquer.  Ahhhhh....Space, the last frontier!!!

Like Pelsea says, enjoy!

Nick

Your pros support your

Your pros support your decision.  I am in a similar stage.  Came back to the hobby about a year ago.  Made a 2x8 shelf layout to allow some switching.  Now I am ready to start a TOMA layout in 4 foot sections that can be smaller now due to family needs and grow and move with me.   I re-learned some things on this little layout.  I am sure you did too.  Have fun.

start over?

  I think it depends on how much time you want to spend and how much you don't like the start you have? There's lots of positives to be said about continuous run plans. Railfanning, ability to run longer distances when operating, double ended staging, breaking in equipment,etc. As PQE said view anything you do as experience gained. The time to tear down a layout and start again really is when you lose interest and stop working on it, at least that's been my experience. As for the room , you could partition off part around the layout with some temporary plastic walls. I've built surfboards and boats in plastic sheet enclosures,they work well for dust control and don't require a large commitment of money or time to construct.....DaveB

@Nick, Yeah I can easily take

@Nick,

Yeah I can easily take what I have cut two of the three sections in half the long way and make it rise from 24" off the ground sitting in a chair to use to 40 inches off the ground stand and watch and put my storage wire shelves under it.

I did some math,,, Current layout as is 72 Sq ft a massive two wall L shape is 60 sq ft... BUT I'll use more track for sure.

I am going to take my time on this. Plan is to to first build the giant L so I can then slide all my shelves and rolling tool carts etc on casters under it so the basement is not in chaos. Once I make the L out of 2x4s I can buy one 2x4 sheet of ply at a time and go from make my layout.

This is Now:

This is What I Plan to Do:

I do need to plan better this time around. My original layout was changed multiple times (got rid of reversing loop, then added a freight yard, then divided it into 6 blocks.) I never planned for buildings! I need to figure out where the buildings I have only buy what I need not what I fancy in the used bin at my local shop.

@ Dan

Plan looks good.  Your cellar looks like mine. Mine has hot air ducts that ended my thoughts of a ceiling.

Having said that consider LED strip lighting on drywall j-bead to keep the cost of lighting down.  If you are interested, I’ll show you what I did.  The CFO hasn’t complained about the light bill since it went in.

Nick

P.S. Like your locomotive and car lineup.

I will also suggest finishing

I will also suggest finishing the room first! The guys in my club did not get a lot of things finished before putting in a large layout. So for quite a while myself, my friend Paul and many others have been remodeling things the hard way (with a layout in the way).

Add more light than you think you need. Add outlets and a couple of extra circuits. It is also good to have switches that turn off everything in the train room. Fortunately for our group we have folks that can do all of this type of work regardless of what we need.

New Benchwork plans

First is my current benchwork that I am going to take apart today. For those new to the thread this is my first layout. I spent a year making benchwork, laying track and decided a DCC Operations Layout would be more fun than the DC go in circles layout I made... I still plan to make multiple tables on casters that can be taken apart by nuts/bolts.

This new layout will take up more space in my basement but actually is 8 sq feet smaller. I plan to fill the layout with more track and than originally. I can reuse ALL of my lumber and plywood so this will only cost me time and no money which the wifey likes.

I didnt like my old layout for reaching across a 4ft span. I also didn't like how low it was 2ft tall + casters. I made it for sitting down at. New one will be for standing. I lilke kitchen counter tops they are 3ft but even that may be a little low (Im 6ft feet tall but the kids need to enjoy it too...

OLD TRACK PLAN:

Freight yard in lower left. Passenger station in lower right. Giantloop that crossed over itself via a bridge for the top of the layout.

OLD BENCHWORK:

NEW BENCHWORK: 

NEW TRACK PLAN:

TBD I do know there will be 2 passenger stations, a freight yard, a tunnel (passenger train only), bridges over rivers, and as much sidings/industry I can squeeze in to make it fun to operate.

As far as buildings I currenty own:

• brewery
• water tower
• gas tanks
• yard office
• log cabin
• church
• 50s diner
• pet store
• gazebo
• 2 houses
• quonset hut
• 2 bay engine shed

Theme: 1980s Maine in the fall

New Benchwork plans

First is my current benchwork that I am going to take apart today. For those new to the thread this is my first layout. I spent a year making benchwork, laying track and decided a DCC Operations Layout would be more fun than the DC go in circles layout I made... I still plan to make multiple tables on casters that can be taken apart by nuts/bolts.

This new layout will take up more space in my basement but actually is 8 sq feet smaller. I plan to fill the layout with more track and than originally. I can reuse ALL of my lumber and plywood so this will only cost me time and no money which the wifey likes.

I didnt like my old layout for reaching across a 4ft span. I also didn't like how low it was 2ft tall + casters. I made it for sitting down at. New one will be for standing. I lilke kitchen counter tops they are 3ft but even that may be a little low (Im 6ft feet tall but the kids need to enjoy it too...

OLD TRACK PLAN:

Freight yard in lower left. Passenger station in lower right. Giantloop that crossed over itself via a bridge for the top of the layout.

OLD BENCHWORK:

NEW BENCHWORK: 

NEW TRACK PLAN:

TBD I do know there will be 2 passenger stations, a freight yard, a tunnel (passenger train only), bridges over rivers, and as much sidings/industry I can squeeze in to make it fun to operate.

As far as buildings I currenty own:

• brewery
• water tower
• gas tanks
• yard office
• log cabin
• church
• 50s diner
• pet store
• gazebo
• 2 houses
• quonset hut
• 2 bay engine shed

Theme: 1980s Maine in the fall

Looks very flexible this time.

Keeping the sections separable will make changes much easier.  The 2’ deep modules will make it very easy to work on.  The other option you have is a removable module or drop down in the open space.  This wouldn’t have to be fancy and could allow for continuous running.

It will be interesting to see your track plan.

I happen to be with Rob in Texas today!  I agree with his suggestion of finishing the layout area.  If you consider the TOMA proposition you might be able to move the layout at least a little if you postpone basement finishing.  Don’t ask me how I know about post layout room modifications......    blue smoke time!!,!

I’ve got to read more of BNML (Office Zone), Craig’s thoughts.  I really liked the method he had to connect modules.  I bet he’s written about how he constructed it and it’s design.

Nick

I totally get finish the

I totally get finish the basement, but I do not think that is feasible for now. I totally get and know you all know from experience why I should.

A few things I've run into with that:

• House is 100 years old and built on fill. This means it was once the Casco Bay (Atlantic Ocean) which is currently 1000ft away. When it rains for a few days in a row or snow melts I do get water in the basement. Never over 1/2 inch and not along the wall the layout is. I do have a subpump I sweel the water into. Usually its a 8ft x 3 ft puddle a few times a year. I do plan on getting a dehumidifer and have it running always.
• Foundation would need to be sealed from the outside, I've debating doing it just from the inside as outside would cost me $10,000 as they dig out your house and seal it and refll it etc... Inside could eaily be $2000 maybe less if I do it myself. I need a metal roof first!
• When I do get water its coming in from where the floor meets the walls not from tbe walls itself or around windows. Typically happens every April for a week and then every other summer for a week. In 4 years its happened 5 times.
• The ceiling is low and I'm 6ft. To do a false ceiling I may hit it with my head! Especially since the previous owner's contractors routed all wire and pipe under the floor beams instead of through them meaning the false ceiling would be 4+ inches lower than it should.

This is why I use pressure treated legs and put them on casters! My neighbor grew up in my house, she said since 1960 something the basement was always like this Her parents sold it to the people I bought it from.

I may need to work on dust reduction whether its hangup shower curtains around the layout or just the table saw when i use it.

I do plan on adding more outlets. Currently there is only one outlet and it is 6 feet to the left of the layout. I plan on boxing out the metal pole with wood (I did this on another pole to make my bicycle repair stand/bench) I was then going to add an outlet and have it go back to the panel. I added an outlet to my backyard so I have the tools and supplies to do this. I even already have the GFCI and wire. This way the layout has its own power and is not going through extenstion cords across the ceiling to the other outlet

I like the idea of "drop in" table top. I would just need to get better at track laying. This would be cool if I plan ahead so I can rearrange the entire layout at will to switch it up as I get bored. Don't like where a building is? Rotate the board 180 degrees and boom it went from the forefront to the background. Or since they are on casters I can move them around... I just need to have track always leave the table at the same spot on each piece. I can do it!

My plans to start rebuilding are post poned this weekend. Car is still in the shop getting fixed and I don't want to use a small rental car for home depot trips. My CRV barely gets the lumber in it as it is. I am going to work on track plans and in March I'll build I will the benchwork. Then I can focus on each 2x4 of plywood one at a time. Since my freight yard is aready done on a 2x4 from the old layout I don't have to redo that. It will be ready for when @amsnick visits in the Spring and helps me setup DCC for the first time.

Dan

Ceiling

Since you can't put in a ceiling, spray paint the joists (wires, ducts, etc) white and add more light.

As for starting over - once you don't like the current layout, you either redo it or the layout gathers dust.  So redo it.  I'm currently on at least my 11th layout (I lost count), mostly due to moves.  Each one is better.

Good luck

Paul

Couple of possibilities

1st what are your basement walls made of on the inside? And what does the floor/wall connection look like? I have used some paint called Drylock on concrete brick walls on the inside to keep out water seepage. There is some other stuff that comes as a powder that once mixed can be troweled on even while water is flowing in or into cracks while the wall is dry. Both work reall great.

You mentioned the possibility of having a flexable layout to move sections around or flip 180 degrees. Get ahold of MR's Beer line project model railroad for some really great ideas on doing that. The layout is portable, can take on an E, F, or a rectangle loop shape. Not sure on the last one. It all had to do with how the track matched up on the ends of each section.

Jack

Hey Jack the walls and floor

Deja Vous all over again

I got into the exact same situation a few years back. The picture of your current layout and the basement looked so much like mine that it brought back a lot of memories. I had even gotten further along, wiring and switch machines installed and a really beautiful control console all custom anodized with led routing indicators............I had a few bucks into that layout. Then, like you, I began to realize that there was no motivation to go forward. After a few months of indecision the layout was ripped out, the old excitement returned and with lessons learned the next layout was a beauty. 

 You are in a very fortunate position to have realized this before the level of your time/money investment became a big deal.