Pelsea

Craftsman quality structure kits have been on my mind a lot lately, both because I have just completed my first build of one and because I am helping a friend dispose of a lifelong collection. This has led to a lot of research as I track down original product numbers and prices, and try to get an idea when various items were produced. That in turn has given me an overview of a part of the hobby I had never paid much attention to.

Although railroad model kits have been around since at least the 1930s (Here's  a good history), the word craftsman apparently was not used much before the 60s. And it didn't mean fancy new kits, it referred to kits that predated the shake-the-box junk produced in the early days of injection molding. Folks were talking about classic rolling stock by companies like Ambroid, Red Ball, Silversides, Laconia and others. Apparently, modelers of the era viewed changes in the hobby with alarm. It wasn't long before companies were advertising "craftsman style" kits to distinguish their products-- primarily an old school approach to materials and methods.

I'm not sure when "craftsman" began to mean "large and complex". My less than exhaustive research would put it at George Sellios' FSM #100 Jacob's Fuel with over 700 parts. That product meets two other indicators of the craftsman genre also-- a limited run (1200 compared to 5000) and a 50% price increase over the previous model ($24.95 vs $15.95).

So these features seem to characterize the contemporary "craftsman kit". Mostly wood construction, lots of parts (especially cast details), and a limited high ticket run. But I have another thought.

The best kits have a name associated with them. George Sellios, Doug Foscale, Leo Campbell and a few others. These folks are (or were) masters of the arcane art of designing a beautiful structure that is reasonably realistic, has its own narrative, and can be built by a ham handed amateur like me. 

What makes a structure beautiful? Well, all of the classic artistic qualities apply-- balance, harmony, color. When these refer to buildings, you get architecture, and you won't have to look far to find buildings that are unbalanced, disjointed, and ugly. It's not an accident that this is a vital part of the equation-- kits are sold from photographs, and even the most gifted photographer cannot make a turkey look like a swan.

What makes a structure realistic? Well, there have to be some common features with the prototype, but precise scale models of the real are impractical. For one thing, there's no room. Few layouts have scale acres to spare, so all structures are condensed. Doing this without producing a caricature is tricky. For another, scale lumber is not scale wood, it's real wood cut to scale sizes. The look of real wood is an artistic choice (I.e. makes no sense). No, a realistic structure is convincing-- it looks like it can serve its function and reminds us of real buildings we have seen.

What makes a model buildable? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is instructions, and yes, those are important. But in my few years of experience I've come across models that can only be assembled from the inside, models with parts that don't fit, and models that require elaborate jigs to get things in line. No instructions can overcome the impossible. The more elaborate a model is, the harder it is to avoid these problems.

The designers are the craftsmen, not the person who assembles their masterpieces.

Your thoughts?

pqe

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Nick Santo amsnick

Craftsman on both ends.

Hi Pelsea,

I've just read through your engine facility and freight house blogs.  Freight house twice.  I agree with you that it takes a craftsman to produce a kit and I also think that it takes a craftsman to assemble a kit and bring it to life.  Also a special skill to be able to convey the process.  I took away a quantification of jiging, triging, and holding.  Not to mention the two painting tricks I hadn't considered.  The skills you learned working with musical instruments and painting pictures certainly come to bear.  These combined with the intuition and ability required to solve a problem (and convey the results) might be the qualities of the assembly craftsman.

While I'm on the subject, jiging is positioning a piece or assembly to maintain a specific shape or configuration.  The Lego blocks were very creative.  Dad was a machinist and left me with some heavy steel very square dies.  Rare earth magnets and vises can help to jig a structure.  A piece of styrene or brass can be a jig for drilling holes or spacing.  Scrap pieces of styrofoam insulation reformed for a new task of positioning a piece or assembly for an operation.  Repetitive spacing using blocks is another example.  The list goes on.  You alluded to spending more time making a complex tool to do a simple task.... once!  

Trig was a term my first boss in my chemistry career used.  He was saying support an object.  Position a part in a jig to make it accessible for an operation.  I was thinking about my shakey, clumsy hands and your statement again when I was applying plastic grab irons on a roof walk.  The car was jiged and I had both hands positioned so two fingers were on the car, one on my left hand was holding the grab iron in place, two on my right hand holding a piece of sprue jig with a piece of 0.010" wire attached to place a small drop of CA and one finger on each hand was limiting the movement toward the spot that the glue had to be placed.  There was no way I could have hit the spot with the applicator in one hand only.  I triged my hand for the operation.  I'm sorry I didn't have a picture of the last statement but both of my hands were tied up!  From a different angle (no pun intended) an artist's maul is a good tool for a "trig".  When I write with a pencil or a pen I trig my hand / forearm by placing it on the writing surface so only my fingers move.

Hold is a catch all for placing the assembly in a configuration that will not allow it to move at all for an operation.  Drilling, cutting, glue drying and so on fall into this category.  I think some overlap of the three aforementioned is obvious.

Attention to detail is an important quality also.  Your thoughts on knife sharpening made me start to learn a skill that I've been putting off for too long.  It was immediately apparent that I should have done it earlier!  Thought of color and the application of the color onto the piece is an important craft in itself.  The knife blade as a mask and the masking of the crowbar were priceless insights.  This list goes on too.

It takes some time to become a craftsman that builds kits produced by craftsmen.  Therein lies the challenge, fun, and satisfaction of ending up with something one can be proud of.

Please continue to enjoy and tell us about your journey as a craftsman.

Thank you,

Nick

Nick

https://nixtrainz.com/ Home of the Decoder Buddy

Full disclosure: I am the inventor of the Decoder Buddy and I sell it via the link above.

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DaleMierzwik

Yes I agree (sort of)

Yes I agree with Nick, it takes a craftsman on both ends to have a successful build of some craftsman kits. But at the same time, if the instructions are clearly written and thorough (such is my experience with FSM kits) Then even a fairly inexperienced model builder can get craftsman results....and learn a boat load of techniques to become a craftsman builder. I have built several craftsman kits but I don't yet consider myself a true craftsman builder...I think that happens when you can build a craftsman kit that may have less that FSM style instructions and one is left to figure out stuff on there own. Or maybe its the guy who can take a $250 kit and cut it up to make something else rather than what it was intended....not a task for the faint at heart.

At any rate, that's my opinion

Loving life in Northern Colorado

Dale

Dale


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Greg Williams GregW66

I was into Craftsman kits

I was into Craftsman kits years ago. I built a few, starting with Campbell, which spoiled me. I got into another manufacturer's kit (I won't disparage by giving a name) and it was one of the worst kits I ever built. Poor instructions, even poorer diagrams and wood that was very rough. Despite this I built the kit with a lot of extra work and made it into a local contest winner. I don't mind the box-o-sticks kits but please give us some good instructions and diagrams. Campbell's kits might not be the most detailed but you can't go wrong with the intstructions.

I never got to build an FSM kit. When a good friend died, he willed me several of them but I sold them and gave the money to his widow who needed it. I have a few of his that he had partially built or are missing pieces so someday I will tackle them and finish them. My understanding is that FSM kits are the perfect marriage of quality parts and excellent instructions.

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
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BillObenauf

My favorite topic!

The designer is without a doubt a craftsman.  But, depending on the builder's interpretation, creativity, and skill he too IS a craftsman. 

I'm friends with Brett Gallant (Sierra West Scale Models) and have built several of his kits. As a designer, one of his greatest thrills is watching customers build his kits with their own spin. Some of his kits take YEARS to research and design. He'll tell you he gets 10% of the credit for a completed model. The other 90% credit (good or bad) goes to the builder. Hopefully, the builder gains confidence, becomes a better modeler, and sees new potential for the hobby: "Perhaps scratch building structures or handlaying track isn't  just for elite modelers!"

Depending on where you want to go with your modeling, craftsman kits can devour you and become a hobby within the hobby.  As a tool, they're helpful in: improving your skills as a builder, noticing details you'd normally never see, and teaching you how to accurately recreate scenes and practices from the real world. I'm pretty new to craftsman kit building (about 7 or 8 years). I'm not an artist but I have a bit of an artistic eye. I followed the designer's instructions, asked lots of questions and experimented in the hopes of improving.

Quote:

The designers are the craftsmen, not the person who assembles their masterpieces

  Well, I kinda disagree. 

 

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ctxmf74

the craftsman

there's lots of levels but the highest to me is the guy who builds his stuff without a kit........DaveB

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Pelsea

@BillMichaels

Quote:

Well, I kinda disagree.

I'm not going to argue that point, mainly because I like to take credit for my work. In my days in the flute business, building was parceled out among craftsmen with complementary skills. Tool & Die guys would build jigs and molds, silversmiths would forge and solder bodies, and finishers (that's me) would add the soft bits that make it into a flute. The job was not particularly creative, nor remunerative (I got $75 on a flute that sold for $1500), but there was pleasure in completing a fine instrument. The main challenge was the dozens of opportunities to screw one up. (I worked in soft cotton gloves.)

After a night's sleep, I think I am mostly arguing with the "they're overpriced" crowd. The artistic input and engineering are worth the price tag alone, and the box of wood and metal is a bonus.

PS. how did you get that delicate red stain?

pqe

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BillObenauf

Red stain

Pelsea--

Good points and I agree--they're not over priced considering the process involved and what you get. Many kits are a complete course in model railroad construction: model building, scene composition, and scenery ideas & methods. 

The red stain (on the first building) is a light application of maroon craft paint. Once the paint dries, the boards were distressed with different grades of sandpaper and finally each board was rubbed with a tan colored chalk stick. I posted a detailed step-by-step at this link (if it's ok to post here):

 

http://www.craftsmankituniversity.com/vanforum/index.php?p=/discussion/514/deer-creek-mine-official-forum-build/p3

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cboyan43

My two cents

I love that there are craftsman kits out there.   They push me to take my time, work slowly and controlled.   I enjoy the final product.   It looks good and I know I did the work to make it.   

I looked at one of the kits for $310 for a trio of buildings.   When I looked at all teh castings and extra details you get with the kit, I found myself wondering how much it would cost to get all those details seperately.   I imagine it ain't cheap.  

 

Chris

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Just another Scale Modeler Ron Pare

I will add one opinion to

I will add one opinion to this thread that I think many have not considered. 

Kits produced before Floquil and after Floquil. 

Before we required less bracing. In today's age of Acrylic more bracing is required. It is because of this detail that many kits including George Selios and Campbel Scale Models are being sold with deceptive instructions for newer modelers.

That is all I have to add.

I am giving away a Creality 20w laser on my birthday! One requirement is you will need to be a member of my @RonPare patreon.

Ron Pare
A guy on Youtube, who  blogs here, and is a creator of some  reviews
Waterfront 3x5 TOMA module, Join the Group
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Pelsea

Bracing

Yes, water based acrylics will encourage warping no matter how much primer there is. I've taken to replacing cardboard pieces with styrene. I've even used brass angle to reinforce some edges.

pqe

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Nick Santo amsnick

May be off the wall but...

Just after paint in cans came on the market...  my Grand Father and I painted houses.  We used BIN, a shellac, as a barrier to water and staining.  I wonder if a clear shellac would work as a primer for acrylics on wood.  If I remember correctly it contains nitrocellulose.  Nitrocellulose will darken over time sou it should be covered.  I'm also not sure that shellac can be obtained in a gloss, semigloss or flat varieties.

Nick

Nick

https://nixtrainz.com/ Home of the Decoder Buddy

Full disclosure: I am the inventor of the Decoder Buddy and I sell it via the link above.

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Pelsea

Varnish

I tried varnish on one model and it seemed to work OK. My local art store sells Liquitex soluvar varnish in gloss  or matte for $14.00 for 10 oz. That's a bit cheaper than the old standby. It dries faster, too. However, there is little "tooth" to the finish, so I needed a third color coat to get good coverage.

I'm trying it again on a simple Builders in Scale kit-- I'll report back on results.

pqe

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Good timing

Pelsea;

These thoughts seem appropriately timed as a friend and I explore the idea of developing kits to do and share. Both of us started our careers building architectural models as well as railroad models - albeit 1,000 miles apart. We both pursued architecture as a career but find history and railroads to be lifelong passion. He has been published in the model press for over twenty years and has/had a loyal following.  I went into government and, up till now, little time to consider alternative business ventures. 

Over the last few years I improved a rental space in a commercial building I own and have had mixed feelings about renting it or using it for my own. Discussing ideas from hobby shop to coffee shop with my friend he has convinced me to obtain a laser cutter and start designing models again since it is a conflict of interest to design buildings in our county as I am responsible for the permits. This sounded like a great idea! 

A craftsman kit can be a "shake the box" type or, like Sierra West models, a way to emulate scratch building a neat design that we put all the work into figuring out the design. This is just like what architects do full size. Yes, I also admire those who build from scratch but a well designed building is worth it imho. 

What to start with?

I like the idea of a series or set of buildings that can be related but also stand alone. You should t have to spend $500-$3,000 because you like the Hotel, wharf scene, mill, or engine house. How about a community of buildings that include those rail served as well as other supporting stores, barber shop, houses, sheds, etc? 

The idea that craftsman kits have evolved to more than a box of sticks and really add more to the experience of model building is where we want to go. More importantly is that the model tells a story.  A really good set of instructions are the key. How about two sets of instructions on a cd or flash drive (or download) that show how I might build the model that shows a history of use and abuse and my partner does the same model if well maintained and the pride of ownership comes through? 

What would others want?

 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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Pelsea

Wow, what a challenge....

I see your best opportunity as moving away from the eastern and old west styles that form the core of most existing lines. Eventually, when the Little Trees and Surfside expands enough to include a beach, I'm going to need a California coastal village. That means houses done in Craftsman style, Spanish, Deco, Victorian, Queen Anne, Cape Cod, and California ranch with both clapboard and stucco finishes. Industries around here are mostly tin sides, either wood framed barn style or manufactured kit buildings. Downtown is Italianate brick, often a brick facade on a wood structure, although half the stores are converted houses. I haven't seen a lot of those around, nor southern architecture other than backwoods shacks.

CDs are good for color views, but they are going the way of the dial-up modem. Plans should be downloaded from your website. Paper plans are essential, if only to be able to check off steps, but getting customers to print them saves money and allows updates. Don't bother with DRM though-- the number of sales lost to people who will copy and build from your plans would be less than the cost of a management system.

Castings have been a central part of craftsman kits up to now, but I would go easy on them. Casting requires a huge front end investment that would be risky as 3D printing takes over. It may be a better idea to design any accessories you need and sell them through Shapeways. That gives you income without inventory. (And avoids one problem some old-timers talk about, dealing with people who want the castings without buying the kit.)

Whatever you do, you can count on me as a customer. (In HO of course.)

pqe

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ctxmf74

What would others want?

I think one thing would be to make the kit buildable in various slightly different forms like they do with tract houses so they all don't look the same when done. I'd also like to see more high quality kits for common  buildings instead of the "character" type that seems to dominate the craftsman kit market. If you want to be a big fish in a small pond try the S scale market, there's little to buy so folks will snap up almost anything :> ).....DaveB

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

In HO of course

1 down 249 to go!

This is a great discussion and I agree that the "normal" building types are not all brick nor old west. Industries were often post and beam with wood cladding that were either replaced or covered with corrugated iron. I can see both types from one kit.

I love California Craftsman styles or circa 1900 designs and know that they were everything from mansions to bungalows.  The Spanish style is really a missing element that I'm aware of. Verne Niner and Dave Meek did some really neat buildings that were full of character. Not all buildings are so blessed! Santa Barbara, Capistrano, and even Northern California Davis had stations that beg to be modeled (SB might dwarf most layouts). 

We are going to focus on 1:48 to start but the laser may be able do other scales with some tweaking and maybe Grant door and window castings to go together quickly. 

Is there any interest in sugar or beet refineries (besides me)? How about railroad car building shops or foundries?

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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Chris Palermo patentwriter

Mid-Century Modern Industrial

Mid-century Modern and other Modernist styles were quite commonly used for industrial rail served industries starting before the transition era to the 1970s, especially in LA, Northern California, Phoenix and elsewhere in the West, but there are almost no models of them.   I am not referring to Streamline Moderne or Jet Age ... they are different and often appear anachronistic on a layout.  Mid-century style can make excellent background buildings.

 

At Large North America Director, 2024-2027 - National Model Railroad Association, Inc.
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Neil Erickson NeilEr

New Thread?

Pelsea; 

Maybe this is straying too far from your original post regarding "Thoughts" (or if you are an SNL fan "deep thoughts"). 

Chris: Would you post an example of the style you mean?  Bauhaus or "Falling Water" Wright styles, Eames or Herman Miller, Saarinen? 

I think of mid-century industrial more Chicago styles?

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Of course there were the "universal designs" of the late 50's and early 60's that could have been a school, bank, factory or church. Those were heavily influenced by post WW2 German designers who fled to the US.  I like them all for what they are!

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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hobbes1310

Dare I say it. A big hole is

Dare I say it.

A big hole is modern building. Not some rebuilt 50-70 style. Tilt Slab construction.Style modern etc.

Could be very profitable. Judging by the amount of modern engines rolling stock, that are coming out each year.

I know I would snap up half a dozen or Perhaps modual design 

Phil

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Chris Palermo patentwriter

International Style etc.

International Style through 1950s modern is what I have in mind. Think Burbank aircraft plants, LA low slung factories, or this example from the Hudson River Valley. Or even Van Damm's house in North by Northwest. Your example, with the curved glass block wall, retains the influence of Streamline Moderne. International and later favored rectangles and hard corners almost exclusively. The Walthers Modern Station is the closest to my vision. I plan to kitbash it. See:

https://www.walthers.com/modern-brick-santa-fe-station-kit

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At Large North America Director, 2024-2027 - National Model Railroad Association, Inc.
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Neil Erickson NeilEr

BIG Buildings

International style and even contemporary buildings are very big. So big that they would be the layout. I can see the back or side of these, even a peninsula supporting a big building like what you and Phil are talking about. 

Move done huge power plants and co-generation facilities in HO, High Schools in N scale, and they were built on 30"x80" solid core doors at great expense to the developer or municipality. A kit with modular walls may be the way to go. A laser cut facade could do the curtain walls and steel facades, awnings, and textures. Perhaps some back-of-house modules to start? 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

Reply 0
hobbes1310

Building along this style. Be

Building along this style. Be it back ground buildings, or compressed form of

tal-1-14.jpg 

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t-Center.jpg 

Phil

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Pelsea

Modular buildings?

Woodland Scenics has a modular system for building in the generic mid century brick style. (DPM brand) Walthers shows a Bar Mills modular kit for wooden buildings, although I fail to see the advantage over milled siding and Grandt windows. Pikestuff does modern era steel side tilt ups. I doubt you want to get into that market, if only because bricks are slow to produce with a laser system. (Injection molding will live forever.) 

I say go with your skills and design whole buildings, maybe with components that can be flipped around or swapped out for variation. Hey, with four models, I could build most of Daley City (Little boxes, on the hillside...)

pqe

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Jackh

My thoughts

I would love to see a modular system that would match up with DPM parts. More store fronts, factory walls with different window placements--!900's, 1950 once new construction started after WW2, Later 1970+.

Water front for the west coast from around 1900 up through modern stuff. Industrial as well as fishing and boat building. Something like what FOS Scale Models does with their smaller kits.

One thing I would love to see is a manufacture who does an initial run of kits and then keeps the kit available much like a print on demand book is. You pay a bit more for it but it is still available.

Jack

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