Backdrop continuity

I am certain you have considered it but how about printing on the shade backside? You could crop the corresponding section from your overall backdrop and have a print shop put it on the shade.

Alan took the words right out

Alan took the words right out of my keyboard. If a thick blind was used it would look neutral from the outside and have your backdrop on the inside, a win / win.

A Contrary View

I don't recall seeing too many attempts at incorporating a backdrop and window covering that looked good to me at all.  There's always some visual disconnect with the rest of the backdrop.  I'm all for just building a scene across the window area and leaving the shade alone.

I'm looking forward to

I'm looking forward to whatever materializes.

Double down

That would be sufficient challenge for me to give it my best shot. Nothing more fun than doing something that was said to be not possible.

Rob's shade fits tightly against the edges and is as smooth as the surrounding walls. A little time spent with proofs at the printer to get the shade print exactly the same as the wall print would do the trick. Tall scenery on each side to hide the hard right angles of the window framing and you would be in business. Nice place to put a view of a meadow framed by hills.

PS Rob, Hope your house was spared from damage during the wind you have going on out there. 80MPH is a serious blast.

Re: Alan

Have at it.  Note that my issues with combining backdrops with window coverings are matters of taste more than anything.  I just don't care for the treatments I've seen.

Thank you.  I don't think we had any damage to speak of, but we had trash cans that blew across the street and outdoor planters that blew over.  Winds up to 80 mph happen here every year or two.

Looking forward....

......to following along on your next section. I really enjoyed your series on Mortimer and I hope this section is as ineresting!

Backdrop options

Thanks for the input on backdrop treatment. I hadn’t considered any need to apply images to the roller blind because I don’t think I need any. The profile of the landscape across the window is quite high particularly where the ore-bin buildings face off the headland:

The only issue is at the right where Redpale creek runs under a small trestle, but I have an idea for using an ‘S’ curve creek bed and a mirror arrangement to simulate going 'through' the backdrop, thus allowing lots of trees all the way across the lowest backdrop section.

It’s very early days so I’m keeping an open mind and a few full size mock ups will follow. Let's see how it looks.

Rob Clark
Cornhill & Atherton RR

You maybe over thinking

You maybe over thinking things here. Have you thought of having a drop down backdrop for this area, so you can slide it down under the bench work, so you can clean the windows?, Or is the bench work  hard against the wall?, if so you could make it  slide up and  out backdrop

Regards Phil

...

I'd lean towards both buildings being present here at your mill site.  Mill sites are essentially the connecting point between an ore mine and the railroad, whereas the ore is ground up before it goes to the smelter...be that smelter local or far away.  Acid leech changed this model, of course, relocating recovery to the mill site itself. 

Looking at both kit, I see an obvious connection between the two.  You could place the Campbell kit up grade of the Muir Models ore bins, thus producing the full facility - the mill at top and then the storage bins right over the rails.  To simulate the mine , you can have either a wagon route down from a mine offsite, or a small set of rails [30" gauge] leading off towards the mine site even further up grade [but also offsite].

This all depends on how much space is available, of course.  I'll submit a couple sketches later in the day.

I bin makin' an ore bin

Phil – There may be room to slide the backdrop up and over (or down and out, depending on how busy the lower deck window view gets).  I’m not sure how much advantage it will give me, because the rock work and trees probably won’t be removable, but you have given me another option to think about/around – many thanks.

Here is the structurally completed ore bin part of Vezmar mine. The upper (corrugated sheet) machinery buildings are under construction and when complete, the whole structure will get a test fit in the scene.

The mine is very much the signature building on this LDE (layout design element) and will dictate the form and position of everything around it. My concern is that the height of the standard building will make it too dominant, but I have to see it ‘for real’ to make that call. I can easy remodel the top end if required.

Benny - great idea about using both buildings. Not sure about space but your suggestion motivates me to complete both structures (building will be fun regardless) and then play about with the results. I can kit bash to my heart's content and the idea of modeling the full site is very appealing - cheers!

Rob Clark
Cornhill & Atherton RR

...

My thoughts, after sketching, is that if you placed the mill structure on the next tier up, it would yield a structure a bit taller than you desire.  This being said, perhaps I should step back and discuss how mills are laid out.  You may already be aware of this information, but I'll assume nothing for the sake of completeness.

Mills operate by using gravity to do most of the work, with hammers falling on the ore and the ore sliding down into the awaiting bins.  With this being said, the hammers cannot be placed at the top of a tall structure, whereas they have to be on solid ground for obvious reasons.  This combination of gravity operations and a preference for solid ground leads to our selection for the site of the mill itself, with many mills preferring sites with good stable terrain and good vertical separation at an elevation below the mine level and above the railroad grade level. This allows the operation to place the heavy hammers on solid ground in the upper buildings and then let gravity move the processed material to the awaiting bins below. 

Hence, they would find a hillside and then carved terraced benches into it, each separated vertically by 20' or so - however much height is between the floors - and going only deep enough [10'-20'-30'] to place the equipment for that level.  If you look at the Campbell Mill, you'll see that there is an ore cart in the upper left corner, where the ore comes in, but there is no delivery at the bottom, which would be fine for High grade High Value ore, but not a large operation like yours.

The building over the bins would be a sorting/grading/weighing facility, plus it may also house company offices for accounting and for managing mill operations.  The smaller upper building may be a lft house or an engine house, or a receiver house where ore is received from a mill on the same elevation or higher up, or it may even be a small mill house, housing a stamp mill. The Campbell kit represents a millhouse with an upper receiver bin where raw ore is dumped right from a mine site.

Stacking them in this manner, with the railroad counting as tier zero, would put the bins at tier one and tier two [tier one is essentially "nonexistent"] and the sorting house is located on tier two.  Next, we have tier three with the Muir Models upper structure or the base of the Campbell's Mill. Tier four and five would be contained by the back part of the Campbell kit [the roof extends out over tier four], whereas the hammers would be on tier four and the ore comes in on tier five.

Hence, I think you could place the mill in place of the upper Muir Models housing, thus connecting it to the lower sorting/grading structure and the storage bins below.  That upper structure from the Muir kit could then be placed adjacent to the mill on the third bench for housing a boiler or an operations house with a boiler in close proximity, whereas this boiler would run the 10-stamp mill.

This overall structure would drive the height of your final hill, which may be more like a ridge line in at least one direction so you can model the ore line coming in on the fifth tier.  You may even get in the mine head itself, but at this point space is indeed limited!!

Now I I do understand this final structure may be a large imposing piece, but I dare say this single mine is the driving force that built your railroad in the first place.  The two railroads built to the Verde Valley[Jerome], the railroad built from Prescott to Mayer [which had lines running to Poland and all the way up to Crown King], and the line running up to Harshaw from Patagonia all followed this economic pattern.

Mine kit merging

Benny – many thanks for the informative overview on this kind of mining operation. I had a rough idea how things worked but nowhere near this level.

I think the idea to combine the 2 kit buildings is sound and I just need to do some experiments to see the best way to combine the various elements.

I’m confident that after deciding the best ‘looking’ set up I can reverse engineer the hillside rockwork to make everything logical.

Thanks for you advice.

Rob Clark
Cornhill & Atherton RR 

Nice!

Rob, I can already tell I am going to like this scene...the sweeping curve and what sounds like an uncluttered plan will really showcase your mine complex, and make for a pleasant spot to watch trains roll by. I think you had that in mind all along, but it's something that is easily missed in layout planning and design...broad curves to showcase the trains as they roll by. Simple, effective, but often overlooked.

I pity poor Ezra...got a chuckle out of the name!

"I think the signature bird

     I like Peking Duck, much better than Crow.         As for the scenery in front of the window I think your profile board idea would be fine, just be sure to leave enough space to get your hand behind there for window cleaning. A nice opaque blind should block the view from outside, I'd paint the outside face of the backdrop the same color as the blind before putting it up, I built a similar set up once and left it  plywood color on the rear and found it could be seen thru the blind in certain light. Maybe you could find a light blue or grey blind to help with the sky effect?          Probably lots of old mine photos online to get ideas for the mine scene. What kind of mine and what part of the country is it located? ...... DaveB

Type of Mine?

Hi Verne -  I'm a sweeping curve man through and through. As you have identified, this is a scene to showcase trains on the move, but retaining an operational purpose with the mine. I'm at that point in the planning process where things are still fluid and it's both exciting and un-settling. Which brings us to DaveB's simple, but deceptively crucial questions about type of mine and location.
I could wimp out and just say we are mining 'stuff', 'somewhere' however.....

My knowledge of mining equipment is limited (hence my appreciation of Benny's overview). I've done some initial research and I'm leaning towards copper for two reasons. The C&A has no specific location. but it clearly isn't arid and copper seems to have a wider geographic availability than gold. Also, gold mining would use a stamp mill, but potentially not need the ore bin (help me out here folks!).

Good advice by the way on painting the rear of the back scene the same color as the blind - thanks.

Rob Clark
Cornhill & Atherton RR

Well you could just go with " Unobtanium"

...... as the true details of mining that ore are unobtainable. Seriously though I've faced the same quandary over the years when looking at mine structures. I've always liked a lot of what I saw but found it hard to figure out  placement and what everything did. Research will take you all over the place as far as "look" so I found Benny's info interesting as well. My switchback branch exist to serve a mine and truck dump or two but I've yet to figure out what they are going to be mining/dumping either.

Michael

What kind?

http://www.newalmaden.org/AQSPark/englishtown.html

  I've always like the sound of Quicksilver mines.Don't know if it occurred in your imaginary location but there's a link to some nearby relics   ......DaveB 

...

Metals have a tendency to occur together but only with similar members, gold likes copper and iron and mercury, and silver likes lead, nickel, tin and zinc.  Dig the hole big enough and you can get any and all of them.  Silver and copper together are very rare.

You could be looking at copper, though you may also be looking at silver.  I would say if you're looking at gold, you'd be looking at a very specific timeframe, whereas the use of acid for gold recovery is actually quite old as a technology at this point.  Of course, if it's occurign with other minerals, there's good reason to smelt it instead of leach it.  I was able to find a generous number of examples when I searched "gold mine ore bins" on Google image search.

In looking at your existing railroad, you have a preference for green landscape and rich soil, so I'd suggest your railroad is more Eastern US than western US.  In looking for metal mining operation in the eastern US in around your time frame, I find copper mines listed in Tennessee, Virginia and Vermont.  On the other hand, I find gold mines in just about every state in Appalachia, and gold would most certainly support your railroad operation!  Keep in mind you'd probably be looking at middle grade or low grade ore here, where they have to crush it and then move it to a smelter elsewhere.  And when we look at what metals some out together, I found silver in New Hampshire and Virginia, but in Virginia it's reported as being recovered while refining other metals.

There's no reason it couldn't be coal with the bins, except then you wouldn't need the mill up above.

So you can simply say it's a metals mine and not be too concerned about what metal is it, whereas your bins speak something to the quality, quantity and recovery options available for that ore.  Gold gives you the widest range of possible locations, so I'd say since your railroad is nowhere in particular, Gold would be a good bet...an ore difficult to treat with acid, or in a place where an acid recovery operation is not favorable, or there's more metals in the ore that is worth recovering along with the gold.

Copper mining

In my reading on the Copper mines of Arizona and Mexico it was always stated the the profitable operations had a smelter on location.  Sometimes the smelter was right down in a nearby valley with mines in the hills all around it.

Any smelter had to have a source of fuel.   There were coal bins where narrow gauge trains ran over the top of the bins to drop coal.  In some locations you can have several gauges, baby gauge (20 inch), 3 foot gauge and standard gauge.

Ojuela had cog engines climbing strict grades to reach the gold mines.  The smelter was down in the desert floor 21 miles down the track.

Mines located in the forested areas usually a red chemical fire retardant painted on the wood.  You can find photos of these big structures that appear bright red.

Den

Silver too

Silver too had a limited period for profitability but check out the Dolly Varden line for lush landscape, tipples, and bins. The little town is about a "old west" as you can imagine - even a hotel on the hill above town. 

Neil Erickson 

p.s. also love the sweeping curve and simplicity of the scene(s). Thanks for sharing!

I keep thinking about Cinnabar for my mine.....

....but that's more  western oriented than some others. Mining facilities would probably be about the same for other ores. Coal can be nothing more than just the tipple and that may ultimately be my choice because of space issues but I'm thinking you want to show more than that.

iIchael

I think I've fallen in love.... (with Dolly Varden)

Thanks Michael, Dave, Benny, Den and Neil for your input.

Looks like I can relax slightly without finally committing to a type of mine yet .

Daveb - beautiful area around that quicksilver mine. I really enjoyed browsing the pictures of the Almaden country park. Some useful imagery for me.

Den - the pointers on smelting location are useful. I will give some serious thought to modeling this feature 'for real' on the lower deck. In the future I want lots of sound business reasons to move materials. I'm also thinking that coal (or oil) will be an inbound load to feed the boiler for driving Vezmar's steam equipment. I have opted to paint the mine red as per your suggestion - see below for progress.

Benny - more great information rounding off how this can all work together - your time is much appreciated

Neil - this is the first time that I have heard of the Dolly Varden line and it's just about the most beautiful thing I have ever seen  . If I ever defect to the prototype world, then this could be a perfect subject to model. Many thanks for the pointer - lots of useful ideas to steal for the Vezmar mine area as well.

Michal - i checked out a few of the Cinnabar pictures and there is some atmosphere that fits well with what I want to do - thanks for the info.

I have been working on the mill and have decide that the standard Campbell kit is a bit to 'slab sided. So I've removed the rear section under the holding bin. This will allow me to put piling and wood bracing underneath to match the hillside slope and add more visual interest.

Here is a WIP shot of the mill painting process which attempts to reproduce a rather down at heel building. Mike Vezmar doesn't share the C&A 'frugal smartness' ethic- it's only ever about about the profit....
The siding is stained to get a mid brown wood base, then small dabs of rubber cement applied randomly.
I've dry brush painted the siding with a mixture of dark rust, bauxite and Indian red before picking off the rubber cement with fine nose tweezers. Hopefully it looks like peeling paint - that's the plan anyway.

Needs toning down a bit (Dullcote and weathering powders) and some rain damage adding, but that can wait until final assembly.

Onwards......

Rob Clark
Cornhill & Atherton RR

...

Mmmm, Mercury...

Now I had never looked into the recovery process for cinnabar, but did jsut now...and it's really, really simple compared to the others.  In short, the crushed ore is roasted and then the vapor is condensed, collected and shipped out in iron containers as pure mercury...

The condenser basically looks like a huge flanged pipe.