rolling door

Rich:

Good first shot at door. A good subject for an article. Many applications such as gates into a industry, water spout on tank or similar activity

Dick Foster

Creekside and Western

Sonoma

I don't really think....

it's that jerky and I'm not even sure what would be causing the "jerkiness" but you might try some powdered graphite in the door tracks for lubrication.  Worked wonders for me with an old cheap version of The Walthers N scale Turntable back when I modeled in that scale.  Very much liking the whole idea and concept of the structure. Nice work so far.

Michael

Rolling door

Rich:

Depending on the era of your road, a little jerkiness may be prototypical.  At one time, roll up doors were raised and lowered by hand by pulling up or down on a chain loop which was geared to the door roller.

Jeff Fry

Will Tennessee Pass fit in my basement?

We have roller doors at work.

Rich,

There are three for car entrance to underground parking and one for semi trucks to get to the loading dock.  Even though those are powered they still jerk.  Also, graphite is used in the guide rails. It doesn't stay in the guide rails.  You see some of creeping out onto the exterior door surface.  Also, because those are steel doors they have to be painted at least once per year.  Rust stains appear quite often during winter.

Oh!  Those doors do get damaged once in awhile.  A whole panel has to be replaced.  It is delivered and installed in its gray primer.  It usual doesn't get painted until the whole door gets painted in late spring. So, you have this gray horizontal stripe across the door.  Adds a little character and a story when someone asks.

Also, on the ground about a foot out from the door and just as wide as the door width is a grate for catching the rain water drainage so it's not running under the door during downpours.

Den

Door movement

I am a sucker for animation. Love that you are animating your door. Only question I have - is a servo the best choice for operating? Might a small gear motor and continuous loop cable be more suited to the application?

Rolling Comment

Hi Rich,

I always enjoy all animations!

If one listens closely with the sound turned up I can literally hear the ripples of the corrugations-- that's the tell. You likely have a bind somewhere in the guides for the door material. Ideas for possible fixes:

1. Increase the width of the door guides to allow more slop in the door traverse, or go to thinner door material.

2. Segment the door so it is a group of horizontal strips connected in the rear with a more flexible material like string, rubber, flexible wire, etc.

3. Make sure the grab point from the servo arm attached to the door in the middle so there is an even force pulling on the door.

4. Make the radius of the corner the door turns on greater.

Try disconnecting the servo arm and moving the door with a light finger touch. If it doesn't move easily, look for ways to decrease the binding effect as much as possible.

Keep at it! Great fun!

Best Regards,

Geoff  Bunza

Roller Door

Rich,

I also don't think the door is jerky. I would really like to see more detail on how and what you used to build it. A more in depth build post would be great.

Richard -  Superintendent CNW Peninsula Div.

blog - http://mrhmag.com/blog/richard_harden

Brilliant

Rick - I love this, ultimately a model railroad is about movement and your roller door is a brilliant idea.

I don't think it looks too jerky, but its taking about 5 seconds to cycle close/open.
We have a lot of roller doors in the car plant where I work and they ain't too fast!
I would aim for a cycle time of 10 seconds (for a model). 

Perhaps Alan's suggestion of gear motor would be closer - all your electronics and most of the mechanics could remain the same.

Regardless - splendid effort: - Respect

Rob Clark
Cornhill & Atherton RR

Rick, that's really not too

Rick, that's really not too bad. Only needs maybe a little bit of improvement and it's good to go!

A mechanical operator would

A mechanical operator would be slower. The manually operated doors (see post above) were often jerky depending on who was doing it. With all that being said, WHAT A GREAT IDEA. The thing looks really good now, with a bit more work see suggestions above it will be fantastic.

Rick with your woodworking background i am surprised you did not use the same method that is used in kitchen cabinets and roll top desks. A piece of fabric is used to attach little horizontal strips to and then the ends of the strips are placed into the track.

For your door individual strips could be glued to the fabric and overlapped to form the door surface and they would be much more flexible. You could animate the door by having it a bit wider than the opening and attaching a loop of sting to each side at each end put one axle underneath the building the other at the end of the door where the top stops with the motor to drive them and you can wind it in either direction with all the electronics under the layout.

Mechanical operator

Rob,

Thanks for the information.  I used the servo with controller because you can also control the speed of operation.  I haven't adjusted that yet as this is my first pass at animating the door.  As far as the door being flexible I sanded the back of the door until it almost went through which made the door very flexible.  I then added packing tape to the back to reinforce it.  I feel confident that with some more adjustments I can get the door operating to my satisfaction.

Thanks, Dick

I have been shooting pictures to document this project just in case I want to submit it as an article to MRH. I want to finish the structure first before submittal.

Just exactly how

did you make the corrugated material go through the curve at the top of the track.  I'm sure that you can find the tight spots if you disconnect the servo and open the door by hand.  A little more clearance in those places will surely fix any problems.  I would use a soft lead pencil to color in the track.  Loose graphite is a little messy.  I too can not see the jerkiness.  Would reducing the voltage slow the opening time down?  I think it's a little fast.  Overall I think you've got a winner here.  Keep us updated. 

Very nice, Rick. Making it

Very nice, Rick. Making it work would be very satisfying, I reckon.

Love it

Great work Rick. I always love seeing animation on layouts. I was going to mention that the speed seemed a bit fast but then you covered that in a later post.  The great thing about the Tam valley servo controllers is that you can adjust the speed to whatever you want.

For a different building...

Dear Rich,

Looks like a great little addition to the operational process. I agree with Dr Geoff, apart from the YT compression/frame-rate issues which may visually exagerate the jerkiness some, I suspect an issue with the corrugations "clicking" over some obstruction in the guides. Do I take it that the door material bends thru a 90-degree angle? If Yes, are the guides radius'd/smoothly-curved, or is the bend guided "in straight segments" from vertical to horizontal?

It wouldn't work for this building (needed to be at least 2x the height of the door opening),
but I seem to recall a MR article which showed a similar working door animation, where the door was a rigid sheet of material, and was lifted/lowered in straight/vertical guides by a Tortoise. That the door material was not being asked to flex/bend whilst in motion made for a smooth movement, as long as the door guides were perfectly parallel. 

Whatever the case, fantastic effort, and very inspirational!

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS while we may want the door to move slower, there's always the issue on an operating model RR that a "slowdown" which is actual proto speed may feel like "too much of a lag" in model form...
(It's a tough balance... ).

Servo "lowering voltage" =/= reduced speed motion

Dear Michael,

Unlike a DC stall motor, lowering the raw voltage is not a good thing for servos, and would not slow things down the way one might expect. Servos essentially balance between GND/0 volts and "VCC" volts, using a time-based square wave duty cycle. A voltage divider connected to the gearbox indicates where the servo "arm" actually is, and it's the offset between the "current desired" and "actual" position voltages which directly act to keep the servo motor tracking "to the correct position".

To adjust the "speed" of a servo requires adjusting the control circuitry which is creating the "square wave" drive signal in the first place. Dropping the PSU/Input volts is most likely just going to cause the Servo Control circuitry to mis-behave...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Thanks, Rob!

I'm glad that you like the door and I must confess this wasn't my original idea.  I was doing a Google search on model RR overhead doors and came across a posting from another modeler that animated an overhead door using the CD drive mechanism out of a PC to move the door.  

Palmer animated door

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions.  There are some common comments and suggestions I'd like to address that came from a number of you:

1.) I chose to use the servo / circuit board set from Tam Valley as I'm already familiar with them as I use them on my turnouts and A.) The end points are easily adjustable electronically using the control board; B.) The speed is adjustable thru the controller board; C.) I lke the small size of the servo; and D.) The replacement servos are very inexpensive.

2.) The track that holds the door is curved and was created by heating and bending styrene angle around a curved item and then gluing on a piece of flat styrene to create the curved channel.

3.) The corrugated styrene door was made much more flexible by sanding the back side of it until is was very thin and flexible.  I then reinforced the back of the door with clear packing tape.

4.) The door channels are currently lubricated with lithium grease which is plastic safe. 

5.) Due to the fact that everything is glued in place I plan on staying with the current configuration even though many of your suggestions would be an improvement.  I may use some of you good suggestions on future animations.

6.) You will note that the servo sticks above the roof line.  I plan on hiding it by covering it where it pokes through the roof with an air conditioner or some other type of roof top equipment.

7.) I've been documenting the building process with pictures and will probably submit and article to MRH once the building is completed and in place on the layout.

Thank you all again for your kind words, comments, and suggestions!

Arduino

Arduino(trinket), servo, 2 leds, push buttons   .... a little bit of C programming and voila.  approx $15

Do you need DCC control over the door?

#include < Servo.h> 


Servo servoPalmerStructure;          //create servo object for Palmer Garage door


int angle = 0;                       //servo position angle


void setup()


{


servoPalmerStructure.attach(9);  // needs to be a pwm pin


}


void loop()


{


 for(angle = 0; angle <  180; ++angle)  //might need to use different starting and finishing angle values


{


  servoPalmerStructure.write(angle);


  delay(10);   //delay in milliseconds different values emulate servo  speed


//you would need to create code 

//to handle the pushbutton events and led lighting 

//but this should give you the idea


}


}

Get Smart - I don't understand

Can you please clarify your post?  As far as the question on if I need DCC control:  Not particulary; however, it comes with the Tam Valley "Singlet" servo / controller so I might use it if I want to operate the door with my throttle.

Can't wait

to see this put into service on your L&N Rick! Nice work.

Richlawn RR V2 - Palmer structure overhead door sound

So I was just sitting here having my morning coffee and of course thinking about model railroading and I had a thought......no, it didn't die of loneliness!  What about adding sound to the animated door so that when it's operating a sound track would play of a creaking / squeaking door opening / closing?

The sound track could somehow be hooked into the servo power to synchronize it with the operation.  Remember that I'm using the Tam Valley "Singlet" servo and controller board.  You guys have comments, suggestions on this?  What do you think?

Rick Great animation, not bad

Rick

Great animation, not bad for first time out of the box with very little tweaking. The only thing that I would do is to slow down the cycle time, which sounds like you are planning to do anyway.