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Proto 2000 Gear Train Binding? Locos and rolling stock
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New member 7 posts RadioFlyer New member 7 posts
RadioFlyer

I recently purchased a Proto 2000 - Lifelike GP9 Limited Edition Phase III locomotive off of Ebay. This was a new in the box unit, that was undecorated. I bought this loco as a first for installing a DCC encoder in a DC loco. I also bought it a as first for learning how to airbrush a model. I got the DCC encoder installed, along with some custom LEDs for the number boards and the headlights. All the DCC, and the custom LEDS are working fine.

The problem that I am having is that the gear train on the trucks bind on both the front and back ends.  The binding occurs after the motor has only turned a few revolutions. I have separated the motor from the drive train by removing the drive shafts, and have even removed the trucks from the body of the locomotive. I turned the drive train by hand, and the gears bind after only a few turns of the worm gears. I opened the drive train, and cannot find a cause due to dirt, or deformities on any of the gears. The only thing that stands out, is the extreme amount of play and sloppiness in the entire drive assembly. The gears have a large amount of play end to end on the shafts, and also against each other.  It seems the square bushing blocks that seat into the electrical pickup bars are very loose and sloppy fit, that may be affecting the alignment of the gears.

I do not know how old of model this is, and I believe that it had probably been sitting on a shelf for maybe a few years before I bought it. I believe that this a design problem, and I was wondering if this is common problem with this locomotives. This is my first Proto 2000 loco, and I thought they were supposed to be better quality than what I have seen here.

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this? Thanks.
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ctxmf74 Super User 15,943 posts
ctxmf74

Gear Train Binding?

I've heard these are prone to cracked gears which probably could could lead to binding. Some locos from that era got the cracked gears as the plastic aged even if the loco wasn't run so the loco could be unused and still run bad.  The good thing is these are easy to repair and I see replacement gears on ebay quite regularly . You should get input from readers more familiar with the P@K locos shortly so maybe they'll have some more things to check....DaveB

1990.jpg 
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JLandT Railroad Super User 2,492 posts
JLandT Railroad

Check the axle gears...

Common problem with Proto 2000 axle gears, when they sit for long periods of time on shelves they develop splits (cracks) in the axle gear. When you start moving the locomotive the split will be under load and open up ever so slightly and bind the entire drive mechanism up. They can be replaced with the Athearn axle gears (cannot remember which one or part number) and I'm sure someone will post it shortly. Jas...

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Geared Frequent poster 838 posts
Geared

Athearn Gears

The part number for the Athearn gears is ATH60024 Loco Drive Axle Gear. This part number is for an SD 40-2 and has six gears, but if you check with Athearn, they will likely have some for the GP 9 with four gears. It's always nice to have a couple extra hanging around just in case. Once you have them in and lubricated you should be ok.

Good luck with the repair. 

Roy

Geared is the way to tight radii and steep grades. Ghost River Rwy. "The Wet Coast Loggers"

 
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Larry of Z'ville Frequent poster 984 posts
Larry of Z'ville

P2K originals were blue box clones

I see a lot of trucks with the top gear bound up. Usually one or both are totally bound up. This is caused by the bearing oil solidifying. This creates an interference fit on the shaft, causing the bind. This happens when the unit sits idle for a long period. Another possibility creating the same binding us rusted gear shafts. In either case. You need to clean the top gear shafts and square bearing inside surfaces. If there is any rust on the shaft, you have to clean and polish it off. Then pub with a good oil. While you have this gear off, roll the trucks for a distance to be sure they roll freely. I would clean and lube the internal gears at this time. As for the axial play, there should be a washer between the gear and the earring on the motor side. Normally, that keeps the axial movement to a minimum. You can put a washer on the other side to take up some of the slack. God luck, Larry

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com
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kjd Frequent poster 575 posts
kjd

Something else to look at

I was recently working on one that had marks on the brass worm like it had been grabbed with pliers or dropped on an edge.  The impact had raised a bulge on the worm gear that manifested itself like a rattling noise but only in one direction.  Here's a photo, I'd make it smaller for posting here but then it would be useless:

http://members.trainorders.com/pmack/temp/worm.jpg

As you can see it is very small.  When I carefully filed the bulge away and polished the gear with wet 600 grit wet/dry sand paper it ran much better.

I would agree with the above poster, if the drive binds and stops, it is probably cracked axle gears.  I've replaced lots of them on P2k and Athearns.

Paul

 
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istasa2003 New member 11 posts
istasa2003

broken gears

Hello,

 I have same problem,after moving from USA to Czech republic to retire and building my new and probably last layout.I have unpacked dozen or so units from P2K...seven from the never open boxes,have had broken gears

I new about the problem for several years and have purchased some gears from Athearn to replace them with.

Replacement is somewhat ease procedure.

Problem I have is to find some more...so I have opened several old Athearn locos from seventies (Geeps,mostly junk) and have discovered that you can use these gears also.

I have to shorten them about 3 mm however and they are working fine.

Good luck with repairs and finding parts.

Ivan.

P.S. I believe that NWS has the parts also,but as a set and quite pricey.
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Larry of Z'ville Frequent poster 984 posts
Larry of Z'ville

Have a bunch of these axel gears

Just to be clear, the inside frame gears are the ones that notoriously crack. The outside frame are longer and do not seem to have a problem. Any one who wants a set, 4 or 6, send me a PM. These are used, but not cracked. Good until I run out. The cost will be first class USPS shipping, anywhere in the world from Indiana. Larry

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com
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Joe Brugger Prolific poster 1,014 posts
Joe Brugger

Here it is

Unfortunately, the price is obsolete. They run a buck or two higher now.

%2060024.jpg 
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RadioFlyer New member 7 posts
RadioFlyer

Gears

 

 

 

Thanks.
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RadioFlyer New member 7 posts
RadioFlyer

Thanks to everyone for the info.

GGNLARS,

Can you please post your PM address, so that I can send you my contact info. (I can't figure out how to contact a user through the website.) Thanks.

 
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Joe Brugger Prolific poster 1,014 posts
Joe Brugger

Contact

Click on the user name under the header:

Thanks to everyone for the info.

Mon, 2014-03-03 20:09 — sarfreq
 
Clicking on 'sarfreq' will open up a page with three tabs. The right hand one is 'contact.' Click on that and you can connect via email.
 
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KnuT Super User 386 posts
KnuT

A source for gears

I bought my Athearn gears from InternetTrains.com as I too experience binding and problems with Proto engines.

KnuT

The P&SF / My blog at MRH
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B. Howe New member 15 posts
B. Howe

Proto 2000 GP9 Phase 3-Clunk

Hopefully someone can help me. My P2000 GP9 is making the dreadful clunk of a cracked gear. Normally this is a 5 minute job and I pop on Athearn replacement gears. This unit I picked up on e-bay and it has a handwritten sticker saying "Bev Bel Limited Special Edition".

I am unable to put the Athearn gears on the axles. The axle diameter is much too large for the hole in the gear. Has anyone run into this problem and if so what is the proper gear to use as a replacement ?
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arbe Frequent poster 574 posts
arbe

Haven't heard of that before

if the axles are really to large for the gears, perhaps using NWSL replacement wheelsets would solve that.

Bob Bochenek   uare_100.jpg 

Chicago Yellowstone and Pacific Railroad     
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B. Howe New member 15 posts
B. Howe

I have searched all over the

I have searched all over the internet and can't find that issue anywhere. NWSL is my last option if I can't get anything here.
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Virginian and Lake Erie Super User 9,231 posts
Virginian and Lake Erie

I am wondering if someone did

I am wondering if someone did not cannibalize parts from an older Athearn unit and put them in your proto unit. I seem to remember the older metal side frame Athearn trucks had square bushings. My memory could be wrong regarding this but I suspect it might be one of those models that someone tried to fix and then sold it on ebay. Now I have not fooled with the proto units in question as all of mine are in the painting stage and different models no Geeps. Your description might indicate some parts substitutions. Also you might want to check and see if all the wheels are the same diameter. A friend of mine discovered some mismatched wheels on one of his that produced very poor performance.

 

Rob in Texas

MRH Blog / Prep for an Operating Session / Delving Into the Past / The Club Blog / Youtube / etmrc.org
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Lee1234 Active Member 73 posts
Lee1234

Wheelsets

http://www.athearn.com/ProdInfo/LargeImages/ATH40029.jpg

 

here is a link to Athearn wheelsets.  Do yours look like this?
L
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B. Howe New member 15 posts
B. Howe

                             

It appears P2K used two different axle sizes, 1.5mm (common) and 2.4mm (rare). Nice to know I have a rare loco.

Only NWSL makes replacement gears for the 2.4mm axle. Each gear is twice the MSRP of the Athearn 6 pack.
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Virginian and Lake Erie Super User 9,231 posts
Virginian and Lake Erie

Is it possible to change out

Is it possible to change out the trucks and maybe cheaper?

Rob in Texas

MRH Blog / Prep for an Operating Session / Delving Into the Past / The Club Blog / Youtube / etmrc.org
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Backshophoss Regular poster 198 posts
Backshophoss

While they are "clone" drives...

...it might be not possible to swap Athearn trucks to a P2K  underframe,there will be some difference.
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duckdogger Super User 808 posts
duckdogger

Caution

Match the tooth count on the axles. I ran into this when replacing cracked gears on a Proto E; the Athearn gears had 12 teeth while the Proto was only 11. Major bind and the increased current fried the decoder.
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JC Shall Prolific poster 1,491 posts
JC Shall

Tooth Count = 11 . . . E Units Only?

Quote:

. . . the Athearn gears had 12 teeth while the Proto was only 11.

I haven't heard of that twist before.  Is the 11 tooth gear on the Proto unit unique to E units, or to all of their units?

-Jack

Louisiana Central Railroad

The Louisiana Central Blog
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,797 posts
railandsail

Different Number of Teeth

So this question never got solved,...about the number of teeth?..... or no one else bothered to reply??

 

 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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Janet N Prolific poster 1,137 posts
Janet N

indirectly answered earlier here and in other threads

Other threads in the June-July 2021 time frame indicated that the P2K E-series units had different diameter axles and a different gear was needed than for most of the other P2K units, which all used the same diameter axles and gears as the Athearn units.  An earlier reply in this thread also indicates that the P2K runs of other units besides the E-series had different diameter axles in some rare cases, and that only NSWL supplied gears that would fit those thicker axles.

Janet N.
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