Couple of thoughts...

Dear Joe,

Couple of thoughts:

- If we as modellers would quit trying to actively sabotage work against the very design-nature of "wheel/rail power-and-control systems" by lazily "relying" on dead-frogs,
and failing to perform even basic "are all wheels acting as pickups, as they should?" maintanence,
(let alone deploying graphite ),

then maybe much of the alleged reasoning for the problematic "long duration" KA/CK circuits would not-be-an-issue.
(More-so when we realise that the smallest locos which arguably could make-use of KA/CK are the same ones which don't have the room for the extra components, and thus oblige us to "make sure the basics of wheel pickup config are optimised"...
...funny how what should be the fundamental "go-to" becomes the "oh, if we have-to"....).

- As far as "open drop-leaf" and "stub end track" VS long-duration KA/CK operational perils,
a solution which the NMRA has hinted-at,
some Euro decoder manufs already deploy,
and most US decoder manufs seem loathe to implement,

is already available, namely "Brake on Asymetrical DCC".

This technique uses simple cheap passive diodes to indicate to the decoder/loco "don't pass beyond this point", in the DCC equivalent of the Analog "diode stop".
(The loco stops when passing beyond the diode location,
irrespective of "loco front is facing east, or loco front is facing west" orientation on the track, or loco address,
but is allowed to back-away from the diode/danger-location without any manual user intervention or "block switch flipping").

This differs from the "brake on DC" or "Address Zero brake-generator" solutions in that it does not require the target section of track to be actively switched (via relay or similar) between the normal Host DCC system track-buss and a standalone "braking generator" circuit. This also means that once the loco is within the "diode stopping section", it is still under direct host-DCC-system control (IE the operator can "back away" under full manual control at any time, using only the controls on the DCC throttle handset, nothing extra...)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

...

When the power becomes trackless, the control must become wireless.

RailPro & Keep-Alives

Benny is right; Direct Wireless Control of the motive power solves all of the issues with Keep-Alive technologies presented in this article.

RailPro is a perfect fit for this. Among the many benefits of RailPro (Automatic Speed Matching, Instant Consisting, and Fast Touch Based Programming) is the fact that it is 100% wireless. The controllers talk directly to the locomotives by radio signal. When fitted with a keep-alive, a RailPro equipped locomotive will still be under control even when it loses contact with the rails.

RailPro Links:

• Seller (PDC.CA which is me): http://pdc.ca/rr/catalog/product/railpro-and-accessories/51
• Manufacturer's website: http://ringengineering.com
• RailPro User Group: https://rpug.pdc.ca
• Recent Article in MRH: http://mrhpub.com/2017-10-oct/online/?page=37

TCS Keep-Alive Links:

• If you're looking for TCS Keep-Alives I offer them on my website for $21.50 US including shipping.
• Wiring diagrams for fitting Keep-Alives to RailPro can also be found at the bottom of this page.

Asymmetric DCC

Prof K,

I saw references to this in the LokSound instruction manual recently, but had never heard of it before. I assumed it was something that some European command stations were implementing somehow and passed over it.

If I read your post correctly, this is something that can be implemented by electricaly isolating one rail, and then installing a diode on the feeder for that rail to only allow the positive side of the pseudo-AC power+signal to pass?

While that sounds simple in concept, making it almost unique in recent additions to DCC capabilities, do you have a link to actual instructions (with things like diode sizes) for implementing this?

Loss of Control is Loss of Control whether Wired or Wireless

I have seen more wireless devices lose control than I have seen DCC systems drop a connection to an engine, so the problem is the same. If a controller whether wired or wireless loses contact with an engine equipped with some form of energy storage, bad things can happen.

For engines with capacitors it will be over relatively quickly, but for engines with batteries they will keep Going and Going and Going and ...

And there are batteries!

Like all things there are

Like all things there are trade offs. Power to all rails and clean track and wheels will go a long way to building power that remains on while running the train. Also the fore mentioned items do not take up space in the locomotive.

Why I liked this article

i like any article that questions and makes me think about received wisdom -- so long as it does not attack the people who hold it.

i am sure I would like Prof Klyzlr's comment if I understood it.  A picture is worth a thousand words

Asymetrical DCC braking

Dear Jeff,

Direct answers: 

Close, but not-quite. Cutting one complete "polarity" half of the DCC signal would present a significant fault condition.

Asymetrical DCC is a little bit more subtle than that, needing only a couple-of-volt-difference between +ve and -ve going halves of the DCC signal to be detected as a "stop when travelling this-a-way" condition. 
(yes, you need to gap a section of rail that you want the train to stop in,
and then feed that section of rail via the "asymetrical DCC braking circuit" shown below)

The way this is achieved is by stringing 4x 1N400x diodes in series,

and connecting a 5th 1N400x diode accross the entire string in the opposite direction,

like this...

For the astute, this results in a "braking-section" DCC signal where
one "half" has an amplitude of approx 11.6 Volts,
and the other "half" has an amplitude of 13.4 Volts,

IE they are not symetrical / equal amplitude as a typical 14Volt DCC track signal should typically be

As requested, see below,
although NB that my initial angst comments highlights that no US-manuf'd decoders AFAIK implement this NMRA Standard DCC function.... 

- http://www.lenzusa.com/techinfo/asymmetrical.htm

-  http://www.lenzusa.com/products/modules/bm1.htm

-  http://www.dcc-mueller.de/nmra/prop-941.pdf
(Reccomended Practise Draft version, circa 2004,
includes some nice meaty "how it works" background)

-  https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.2.2_decoder_cvs_2012.07.pdf
(NMRA Standard 9.2.2, circa July 2012 - see "CV27", line 180, on page 5,
this is the "what you expect to have to tweak as a end-user" CV specs)

-  http://www.ser-nmra.org/sites/ser-nmra.org/files/clinics/Clinic_Lenz_Presentation.pdf
(a little overkill, but a good clinic which kicks off focussing on basic functional Asymetrical DCC braking)

I note the use of "1N400x" diodes above because
- They're cheap
(25 diodes, enough for 5x braking units, for around AUD$1 sound OK?)

- They present a predictable 0.6V Fwd Bias Voltage Drop per diode
(makes calc'ing the required volt-drop config easy)

- They will take a solid Amp of current without issue,
which should be more than enough to stop (and hold) a pair of reasonably current-spec HO diesels
(O scalers may need to choose a larger-format/higher-current diode, such as 1N540x?)

I hope this helps clarify the concept,

although honestly I hope-more that US-decoder-manufs would actually implement S9.2.2 CV27 and associated "brake on Asymetrical DCC" functionality...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Thanks

Prof K - thank you, that was quite clear. And food for thought as well, particularly the part of "no US manufacturers." I have to assume that they considered this a non-issue in the pre-keep-alive days when you'd simply gap the rails and create a dead section.

This has changed.

Programming track, what to do?

Thanks for the insight Joe, while the team offers a plethora of ways to deal with a swinging gate,Did I miss the solution to the JMRI issue which is far more troublesome to me than swinging gates which in my neighborhood are as rare as hen's teeth.  In the hundred or so layouts I've visited in Colorado, I can recall two liftout/swinging gates.  However they all need a programming track, at least the DCC ones do.

Joe

Mechanical Solution

No matter how elegant the electronics, the only fail-safe solution to a long drop to the floor is mechanical. The electronic break still isn’t going to stop you from backing that long passenger train off the cliff, or stop a run away car that has come uncoupled. A simple mechanical spring loaded stop will keep everything from going over the edge whether powered or not.

@Joe Baldwin

Get yourself a decoder tester and program the decoder first using the decoder tester and the programming track.

Decoder testers:
- TCS (https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoder_Tester/index.php)
- Loksound (http://www.esu.eu/en/products/decoder-tester)

Then install the programmed decoder in the loco and use programming on the main to tweak the locomotive settings.

Loksound decoders that use their keep-alive with three wires between the decoder and the keep alive are "smart". They detect that you're programming on the programming track and shut off keep alive automatically.

Assumed considerations....

Dear Jeff,

I honestly hope it's just my cynical side getting ahead of reality, but I'd tend to think the consideration went more like "...all that braking stuff is for European modellers who use signalling, automation, and majority timetable/passenger running, we build for US modellers where the lone Hero Freight Engineer is in manual control, signalling in model form is a rarity, and any degree of automation in any form is shunned..."

I mean, I _Want_ to be _Wrong_ about that, but....

Happy modelling ,

Aiming not to let cynicism get in the way of finding workable solutions,

Prof Klyzlr 

PS I'm currently in a quandary with my latest layout build on a related issue. The current state of affairs is:

- I can have DCC Sound and fail-safe auto Passive (diode based) end-of-track braking, but no EQ for truly optimised sound

- I can have EQ for optimised DCC sound, but either obliged all-manual shuttle OR active automated-shuttle-with-big-risks-and-undue-extra-operational-factors (IE additional "things to watch out for" which I've not had to worry about with previous exemplar shuttle deployments)

- Or I can use a dead-simple bulletproof Analog shuttle, and loose much of the Controllable onboard (DCC based) sound capability....

Decisions decisions....

Programming track booster

As for programming issues using KA circuits, I have had few.  Those I have encountered have been while READING CVs on certain sheets.  I have installed at PTB100 booster permanently inline with my program track and am quite successful at programming all my KA equipped locomotives.  I think a key problem is most will not let the KA come up to full charge on the main before attempting to program on the service track.  An isolated track dedicated to programming equipped with a DPDT with center off switch is essential in this case.  Putting the loco on the service track I flip the switch to "main" and wait about 2 full minutes for the KA to charge, then I flip the switch to center OFF for for at least 2 seconds before flipping it to "program".  Then I can program normally using JMRI.   MY Keep alives are all DIY kits and most have 7 to 10 seconds of "idle" time but at road speed it is much more like 1 to 2 seconds of run time.  Where they shine is in switching duties where you are making very slow movements.   

...

The more the world progresses, the more the world regresses...

LokSound Current Keepers

Where can I find the best How To video or diagram on properly wiring an ESU mini power pack to a LokSound Select Direct decoder? I really wish TMTV would do a video on this, HINT, HINT.

Tim

SPROG 3

JoeF

I have been using a SPROG 2/3 for several years with no complaints or mystery.  I;m intrigued with the KA concept but do not own any, yet.  I see where Bachmann is now selling some RTR with KA included, something I consider a milestone for the technology.  That KA may foul programming is a non-start. Your comments raising the possibility was a shot across the bow for me. 

Regarding decoder testers, they are more like decoder interfaces breadboarding a loco. I have one which is currently lost in my train room. 

Guess I'll make the leap and pickup some and see what I see for myself.

Thanks for the stimulation,

JoeB

. 

When will radio controlled

When will radio controlled power hit the rails, will there ever be power to the rails or rechargeable battery powered locos (zero rail wiring)  and receivers in locomotives that respond to radio signals vs digital signals through the rails? I thought I heard something of this some time ago. I am a dcc rookie, and I don't know much about radio control either, I 'm just curious wouldn't radio control simplify things?  

When will radio controlled power hit the rails?

As already Mentioned, Look at RailPro it's 100% wireless control. You can take the power form DC or DCC power on the rails or from batteries onboard.

It's Fully Touch Screen Control, with Automatic Speed Matching, Instant Consisting, and Fast Touch Based Programming. RailPro locomotives talk directly to each other allowing them to load share with other in real time, making speed matching a thing of the past.

DC or DCC ready locomotives are ready to convert to RailPro by installing the RailPro Locomotive Module. A few simple programming tasks and you're ready to run trains with a system more powerful than DCC, and easier to use than DCC.

Although RailPro is not DCC, RailPro locomotives can be used on DCC layouts and can also be configured to talk DCC.  

I was so impressed with RailPro after I got it for my layout that I became a dealer for them. RailPro is the only system sell. It works as advertised and I love it.

Seller (PDC.CA which is me):
http://pdc.ca/rr/catalog/product/railpro-and-accessories/51

Manufacturer's website: http://ringengineering.com

RailPro User Group: https://rpug.pdc.ca

Recent Article in MRH:
http://mrhpub.com/2017-10-oct/online/?page=37

Tim, I had the same issue....

so I asked tech support and they emailed these pics to me.

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/2016/10/soldering-esu-powerpack-to-esu-loksound.html

Bill sorry I missed previous

Bill sorry I missed previous mention of that, I am assuming it still requires power to the rails? you mentioned it works with DC or DCC...I'm thinking more along the lines of zero power to the rails radio controlled rechargeable lithium battery powered locos. do you think that's  possible? 

sorry bill just realized re

sorry bill just realized re read your post you mentioned batteries on board..or power to rails..have you tried battery powered? 

thank you for the links gonna

thank you for the links gonna check them out.