OUTSTANDING JOB!

Very very nice work Rob. It's amazing when you wall in an open frame how it redefines an area.  Just so you know Ii don't wait well so please make it sooner than later for the next entry.

Steve

Re: Steve

Don't worry about the wait, the blue should be up in a few days!  Thanks for the comments.

Hard to provide suggestions

It's hard to provide suggestions, Rob, based on a picture and seen through a monitor. I'd take any input with a very large nugget of salt.

So get that salt ready.... I like the blue sample (the tallest one) behind the smaller of the top structures on the grain storage building.

Re: Suggestions

A worthy candidate indeed.  The color was selected prior to posting the photo, so y'all will just have to hold on and see how it works out.  I'll credit you for good taste (or equally bad judgment as the case may be) if you guessed right though. Oh, the suspense...

Looks very nice

I think this is the first time I have seen a large area of your layout. It looks very well done. Very clean. Nice. I expected no less.

Unwieldy sheets of hardboard are my next step too. I hope mine come out as nice as yours.

PS. Is Behr Horizon Haze in the assortment?

Backdrop Material - Why Drywall?

I have not decided what material to use for the backdrop.  Because of the mountains, I only need (for most scenes) 6"-9" of "sky".  I have been considering using the back side of linoleum as Joe F. does on his Siskiyou Line SP Layout.  Did you consider using this material and if so, why did you decide to go with drywall instead?

Thanks for your feedback.

Ken L

Re: Alan

It's not.  Hope I didn't miss out.   Maybe I'll grab a paint chip of that next time I'm at Home Depot for comparison.  Thanks for the kind words.

Re: Ken

It wasn't considered, but. my backdrop requirements are probably different from yours.  

One of the concerns for me is the amount of 2-D scene that will go all the way to the bottom of the backdrop, with little or nothing to disguise the transition to 3-D.   Lakeview yard (left side of the photos) is in the bottom of a Great Basin valley and the scenery around it is flat with very few trees.  There are mountains in the distance, but the flat valley floor will extend onto the backdrop directly from the narrow plywood area by the rear track.  There's nothing to hide a crooked edge there, so a rigid backdrop material was called for to maintain a neat and straight joint.  The scene to the right of the aisle is a sidehill grade, so the backdrop there didn't need to go all the way down to track level, but again there are few to no trees on most of it so nothing to hide the edge if the backdrop didn't stay smooth between supports. 

As can be seen in the photos, the room was finished with drywall all around before the layout was started, and I retained the drywall as the backdrop surface around the perimeter.  There are plenty of materials that would have worked for the freestanding peninsula backdrop I suppose, but I'm familiar with working on hardboard, and it can be finished with standard drywall techniques, so it was an easy and safe choice for me. 

I tend to use what I'm comfortable with, or materials that work in similar fashion.  I tried some vinyl floor sheet on a module one time where I needed a small backdrop (it was backed with plywood) and it seemed to work OK for that.  The backdrops on the current layout are taller, and given how soft materials like vinyl or linoleum need some kind of backing to stay rigid I used materials I knew would stay in place. 

That makes sense...

I too am concerned about whether the flooring material will stay in place. But the benefits seem to outweight the negatives (mostly fewer seams to deal with, and the ability to go around tight corners).  Where I need to use photo backdrops, I will most likely use masonite since the vinyl paper will cover any seems.  There are a couple rivers and valleys that will be 8'-12' wide.  I don't think the paper would stick will to the flooring material.

Thanks for the information. 

Ken L.

Re: That makes sense...

I bet you'd be OK attaching photo backdrops to the backside of the vinyl flooring.  After all it's installed on floors with adhesive, so glues will stick to it.  My workshop adjacent to the train room has a vinyl floor I installed myself with the manufacturer recommended adhesive, which didn't seem too different from something you might use to attach a photo backdrop, just thicker.  I'd just make sure you use rigid backing material anywhere you want the vinyl to remain perfectly straight.

No surprises here...

Very clean and professional looking. Would have expected nothing less from Rob. Your backdrop challenges do seem rather unique. I'll be very interested in seeing how it progresses. Are you going to use 100% painted backdrop? Nice work.

Re: Kevin

Almost.  I'm planning to use some photo backdrops for structures in a few locations, especially a city industrial district.  I had some broad expanses of Great Basin desert a couple layouts ago and am looking forward to doing some more.  The last layout came down before I got to the desert scenes.

Thanks for the compliments too.

A Little DAP'll Do Ya - Final Paint Prep

Time for the final steps before applying the blue sky. 

There were a few joints in the corners where hardboard met drywall.  Unlike a pure drywall corner, there's no compelling reason to do a full mud-and-tape job where the two materials meet at a right angle.  Assuming the gap is of reasonable size (under about 1/8"), it's easy to finish the joint with some paintable caulk, smoothed only with a finger dipped in water.  Also note the sequence - I like to add the caulking after at least one primer coat is up.  Doing so reduces the potential for damaging any of the drywall mud adjacent to the joint with a stray fingernail or too much water.

Here's one such corner.  The caulked joint will probably be more durable than if I taped it based on past experience.  Hey look, there' some masking...

As you may have noticed, the peninsula backdrop doesn't extend to the ceiling.  There are multiple reasons for this:  1) It helps with ventilation. 2) It allows some light to penetrate between aisles, allowing the room to stay brighter (since I'm not using valenced lighting). 3)There's no joint between the backdrop and ceiling to move and crack (this last problem occurred on a prior layout - when somebody bumps the benchwork it moves, and that's the place where any damage is likely to show up).

So what does that have to do with the masking tape?  I decided to stop the sky blue at a level even with the top of the peninsula backdrop.  Due to the HVAC ducting and some other systems, there's a lot of dropped soffit in the room, so I wouldn't have a consistent height if I extended the sky to the ceiling.  To set off the layout and help the room feel like a complementary part of the house as a whole, I didn't want the entire room to be blue, so the sky has to end somewhere.  I'm hoping the lower sky limit (still above viewer eye level) will contribute to the apparent length of the scenes along the outside walls by making them seem more linear. It will also reduce the amount of clouds I'll need to paint, and maybe help to "frame" some of the larger cloud masses I'd like to do.  A similar effect is employed at Steve Blodgett's Bear River RR layout (where most of the "Fun With Talus" article photos were shot for the article in Jan 2011 MRH) and I like how it turned out.

What if.....

Try this stuff

Rob, next time around try this stuff: http://www.dap.com/3point0/

It has vastly better adhesion and flexibility than Alex Plus. If someone bumps benchwork or expansion/contraction takes place this caulk surely will not crack or let go. I did a bunch of caulk testing before I started finishing my basement. The caulk was all going to be behind drywall so failure was not an option. I bought a tube of each kind HD had and applied to samples of materials same as my basement construction. The samples dried for a full year before I did destructive testing. The DAP 3.0 outperformed all the rest by a wide margin.

Re: Try This Stuff

Thanks for the tip.  I'll need some really good caulk for the scenery/backdrop joint, since it ruins the backdrop scenery if there's deformation or cracking.  I've had very good luck with the cheap Alex Plus for areas that won't experience much movement like those shown earlier.

Re: What if...

Looks kinda spooky.  Maybe for the Halloween op session? 

Black ceiling

Another of the million options being contemplated. A black ceiling would provide a dramatic, museum-like setting that would greatly enhance the focus on the railroad but..... it is a big commitment. Black ceilings are very specific in purpose. Real hard to resell. Lighting of aisles would be compromised as well.

Re: black ceiling

"A black ceiling would provide a dramatic, museum-like setting that would greatly enhance the focus on the railroad "

I love it for this reason

"Black ceilings are very specific in purpose"

Ceiling is not even supposed to be there. Another option I saw was rounded corners at backdrop-ceiling intersection, with sky-colored backdrop fading into almost white at the ceiling.

"Real hard to resell"

2 coats of primer + ceiling paint.

"Lighting of aisles would be compromised as well"

We do model railroads, not aisles. This would be one of the VERY FEW layouts with good to great-looking benchwork. Also aisles do not need a lot of light, just enough to comfortably walk around without stepping on other's toes... or cat tails. BTW, did anybody ever tried to light the aisles with something to cast the light parallel to the floor so it would not affect the layout lightning?.

what aisle lighting?

At the club we provide no lighting for the aisles, all the lights are on the layout behind a valance (where finished.)  There is no need for more lighting in the aisles, as there is plenty of light spilling out from the layout.  There is absolutely no problem seeing what you are doing.

Now if you were doing day/night ops, you would want some sort of lighting for the night operations so you can see where you are going, but we don't run at night...so far.

Aisle Lighting

I've seen home theaters with floor level strip lighting resembling that used in commercial theaters and airplanes.  There are also small light fixtures designed to mount in standard electrical boxes, with louvered cover plates that direct the light downward.  I recall those used in stairways, halls and theater applications as well.  Either would probably work for dedicated aisle lighting, and I swear I've seen a layout which used the latter types mounted in some solid skirting that hid the benchwork.  Like Jurgen says, the layout lights typically reflect enough into the aisles to render such things unnecessary unless you really wanted them.

Either way, I'm aiming more for a "finished part of the house" look for the layout as opposed to something more theatrical or museum-like.  It suits my aesthetic preferences, and isn't for everybody.

Lighting over aisles

Lighting fixtures over the aisles aren't considered sexy. The museum shadowbox effect sure looks dramatic.

But...

• Any object close to the aisle won't be well lit by lights behind a valence -- the light rays are nearly parallel to the sides of box cars. Or worse, the roof of a box car, or loco, or reefer, or ??? can cast a shadow on the side of the car facing the aisle if the car-side is closer than the lights behind the valence.  This makes it hard to read reporting marks on the sides of cars occupying tracks near the aisle due to the darkness of the car sides with the relatively bright scenery further away from the aisle. Adding more lighting doesn't help.
• Lighting valences can make a layout feel a bit claustrophic -- at least to me. Probably a personal thing ...
• Building valences takes work and $$$ and imo, is a pain in a certain portion of the posterior...
• But it sure looks elegant and sexy ...

On the other hand, running a series of dual T8 wrap fixtures down the aisles:

• The entire layout is brightly lit. The sides of objects near the edge of the layout are well lit.
• The lighting is easier to install.
• You only need one 4' fixture for 4' of aisle, not one for 4' of layout on one side and anther for 4' on the other side of the aisle.
• A negative is that it's harder to illuminate parts of the layout that are further away from the aisles than with a valence (which can have a reflector behind it to help with light transmission.
• Requires bending conduit to safely install fluorescent light fixtures in the ceiling.
• Works best if the ceiling is several feet (or more) above the layout.

I started with shadowbox lighting but switched to dual T8 fluorescent wrap (prismatic lens plastic diffuser wrapped around the tubes -- helps avoid UV). The layout room is bright enough for handheld photography during an op session. I like it enough that I've never considered going back.

If I ever want automated day/night effects I'll need to change the ballasts in the light fixtures -- DALI ballasts are available that dim fluorescent tubes to 1% output and up to 64 ballasts can be run by a single controller with only (I think) a twisted pair daisy chained to all the ballasts. When I was buying fixtures I checked into these -- they're not inexpensive (unless you compare them to the Lutron 1% dimming solutions), but worakable. For now I'm happy with on/off control of the lighting.

Regarding ceiling color, while black is very dramatic, it robs light from the layout room  like crazy. My ceiling is a sort of neutral, primer gray, that the painters prepped the room with when the house was built. I painted the walls blue, but left the primer on the ceiling. If I had it to do over, I think I'd paint the ceiling a sky blue to help reinforce the sky bowl effect. But I don't want to go painting the ceiling now that there's finished layout (with scenery) in place.

I made my lighting choices. You'll need to make your choices. But before investing lots of $$$ in light fixtures, valences, or controllers I'd suggest finding several examples of layouts with different styles of lighting so you can see for yourself what they "feel" like.

Definitely a YMMV situation.

Rob, I really like what I'm seeing in your train room.  Did you consider 1/4" drywall and bending it around the curves instead of using masonite?

Best regards,

Charlie

I'm doing both!

I plan on having both the T-8 wrap fixtures in the aisle, and lighting over the benchwork.  The bulbs all have the same color temp so they all match.

Ken L.

My Prototype

I envision my arrangement to be very similar in method to what this fellow has done:

http://www.cliftonforgediv.com/construction.htm

Except, now that I have encountered the wattage dilemma, I will dispense with the lay-in light panels over the layout using LED strips in their place. Otherwise, same same as his.

Rob, the first section of upper valence is under construction now. I'll be trying a test section of LED strip before long. Thanks again for the tip.