The Beginnings...

This has been a long time coming... finally, I was ready to commit and start construction.

The preliminaries involved moving all of my left wall storage space over to the right hand wall to allow starting on the staging shelves. Here's a portion of the left wall before the move...

Already waiting for me over against the right front wall were these sheets of A-C yellow pine plywood...

Finally, after all the schemin', dreamin', plannin', and disussin'... at long last the day was approaching to actually make like a termite and create some sawdust.

To Be Continued...

Andre

Let the fun begin.

I look forward to following your progress.   Keep the pics coming.

Wayne

Alright Andre!

Go for it buddy!

The Start...

February 12, 2019...

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Today, for the first time in about two decades, was The Day to commence with the bench work.

The day started off easy enough: Move EVERYTHING on the left wall over to the right side of the building. EVERYTHING. Also, pack up my work station tools.

That done, it was set up my new fold-able saw horses, throw the first piece of plywood thereon, get out the tools...

Where's the box of tools and stuff?

The search begins...

One hour later, I give up. It was NOT in my building, it was NOT in the garage, it was NOT in my computer room closet. It didn't exist. I DID find SOME of my tools, but I haven't a clue about what happened to the various tools that have disappeared to over the decades of disuse.

SO, it was off to the hardware store, Walmart, along with running some other errands.

Almost 2 hours later, I'm back and grab a late lunch. Then it's off to my out building, needed tools in hand. NOW maybe I can make some progress.

Amid all the trips back to the house to find something I'd forgot, EVENTUALLY, I had a plum line snapped, and the L brackets for the lower stage in place:

Over to the sheet of ply on the saw horses, mark the end dimensions for the lower shelf on the 4' ends of the plywood, and snap another chalk line. Presto: The first piece of ply (16" x 8') for the lower shelf is ready to cut. Time to dawn my ear plugs and rip the first piece of plywood.

Of I go... the saw screaming... sawdust flying...

Lookie! Lookie! I'm really, really building a layout!!

Then... the blade starts turning slower... and slower. Sparks began to come out of the saw's vent... slower... the blade stops... smoke.

Unbelievable. My saw just burned up its brushes.

A quick look at the watch: IF I take off NOW, I can get to the hardware store before they close. Off I went.

To Be Continued...

Andre

The Start Part 2...

Long story short: For some reason the local hardware doesn't stock brushes for 30 year old Skil circular saws.

Imagine that.

SO, several $$ lighter I'm walking out the door with a brand new Porter Cable circular.

Back in my lair, I fire it up, and finish ripping the ply with my new saw. Then it was slap the shelf against the wall and tack it place FINALLY! After almost two decades of layout DEARTH... at long last, there's now TANGIBLE evidence that I'm truly on my way...

Hooray for me!

Okay, so it doesn't look like much... but hey... we're talking a nigh 20 year layout-deprived dude that finally gets another... sort of like that 20 year prison guy that finally gets conjugal rights with his hottie wife! Well, not really, but sort of like.

But hey, what can I say? 

May not look like much now... but I was SO GLAD to finally have all the needed items replaced that allowed me to accomplish this little bit before time to going over to the house for supper. What SHOULD have taken MAYBE an hour or so... pretty much consumed the entire afternoon.

After supper I went back out to my room, and decided to place a TOC19 train on the bare plywood to get an idea of size relation.

Now ain't that CUTE?

Then it hit me: Whoa...

Even though this is only PART of the stage... what stage is there swallows up the little TOC19 train. To give you an idea of how much more stage is going in, here's this view...

Keep in mind there will be SEVEN stage tracks almost the entire length of that wall!

You see, since I decided to return to diesels a while back, the elements of my previous TOC19 funky fantastic Colorado layout plan had to be totally scrapped and a complete redesign was called for. Giving up on a TOC19 funky fantastic Colorado layout theme and returning to 1960s diesels in an Ozark setting meant that I needed to significantly increase staging capacity to accommodate longer train lengths, and this includes pass track lengths. What I ended up designing gave me 7 stage tracks top and bottom. Two of the seven tracks will accommodate a 10' train, three of the tracks 9' long trains, and two of the tracks 8' trains. Given the much shorter trains of the late 1880s, I think there will be PLENTY enough staging for my TOC19 era!

Alas, though, until I make much more progress on bench work, I'm done being able to use my work station. AND, the right side of the room shows the strain of having to handle all the stuff I had on the left wall:

(See my new saw? )

SO, my first day back into layout construction was off to a precarious start, but the essential tools/items are on hand now, so I should do better, time wise. However, I need to remind myself that this isn't a race. I need to calm down and try to enjoy the journey on this, possibly my last, layout.

All fer now!

To Be Continued...

Andre

Replies...

Wayne:

Thanks! Are you the same Wayne that I'm friends with in the V scale world?

Rick:

I'm a' goin' fer it! I'm a' goin' fer it!

Andre

So, Did I Miss It?

Or is the track plan just in your head? I do like your writing style and approach! Looking forward to the continuing saga.

Track Plan...

Hi Bud:

I have a track plan, but it's analogue. That is, I prefer pencil n' paper to computer CAD. (I tried a few of the track plan CAD's... missed the tactile nature of my track planning experiences.) Sharing it here is complicated by the fact that my "new and improved" scanner is less than my "old and aging" scanner  and has LESS capabilities than my "old" scanner. SO, I don't have the means to provide a scan at this point in time.

BUT... what REALLY chaps my butt, though, is:

The Moron Factor that hits me without warning in ever increasing, and troubling, frequency. To wit: I've placed this thread in the WRONG FORUM. Such an idiot.

I MEANT to post it in the "Benchwork and roadbed" forum. HOW I managed to put it here is beyond me, and is proof positive that I oft suffer from getting a direct shot of the Moron Factor.

Sheesh, what a buffoon I can be!!!

SO... now I'm pondering what I need to do: Move this thread somehow?

HEY Joef!  Is that possible?

Andre

Adding Benchwork (or planning, etc)

Andre: 

I enjoyed your writing as well and look forward to more. 

Look for the gray’d out “Edit” tab above your original post and it will open again. Now you can add additional forums. Save and Post. Done. 

I had to try it to be sure. More than once the mouth moves before the brain!

Been there too

Seems to me there was a thread about stuff we did wrong or went wrong on projects. Don't remember any comments about discovering what you thought you had you didn't.

Anyway you are not alone. When I gather up the goodies I am always amazed if everything ends up in the pile that should be.

So what part of the Ozarks are you placing this dream in?

Jack

Nice...

Off to a good start. Or, well, off to A start anyway.   That's more than most. I look forward to your progress. 

On posting the track plan, you could just take a photo of it and post the photo. We all know you can post photos. 

Randy

Height?

Looking good so far, but it looks awfully low. How high is the benchwork going to be?

Different parts of forum?

Never slowed me down!

It all comes up on recent posts. I never pay attention what forum ANYTHING is in........of course I don't pay a lot of attention to much of anything. Gotta save those brain cells for more important things as you get older.

And their off

Combat

Nice work, looking forward to more. Lets talk about the two C/L combat airplanes on your shelf.

Wayne

The Ozark Sub

  Hi Andre, Great to see you getting started on the layout. The room looks very nice.  I'm curious how you plan to scenic the layout for two eras? Will it be replaceable buildings and details or will you try to find scenes that work for both eras? I've been rubbering between the 50's and 70's for my CCT layout but that's a much narrower time span.....DaveB

I Done Done It!

As you can now see, I moved my build thread to the CORRECT forum. Thanks a bunch Neil!

Jack asked (oooo... pronounce THAT carefully)...

"So what part of the Ozarks are you placing this dream in?"

In my imagineered route of the KC&G, it heads south/southeast out of KC, to Springfield, MO, and basically heads south/southeast toward the Arkansas River. So... central portion of the Ozarks?

Back in the mid-late 1990s when I created my Kansas City & Gulf theme, I fretted over maps and such and came up with a routing to get "my" (the KC&G way) from KC to New Orleans. Along the way on the maps, I would "assume" actual abandoned railroads, supposing that the KC&G built it and it was still in use during the era I was modeling.

Once south of Springfield, I had to wing it and imagineer my way to the Arkansas River, which I did, including field trips to "my" region of the Ozarks to get a feel for them and get modeling ideas/inspirations. (Fun times!) I even build a couple of V scale versions of my KC&G! One version passed through Harrison, and then hit the Arkansas River at Russellville area. The other version left Harrison and hit the river at Clarksville. (Fantastic topography on that version.)

Not having the 1:1 world of V scale on my HO layout, I will only be modeling a very small portion of the "Ozark Sub": A crew change town and the ruling grade of the entire railroad.

The first "on-layout" lower town just "north" of the lower stage will be a crew change town/point, the last "on-layout" town on the upper level will be the "summit" town. (Note: "North" is the direction required to get from the lower level to the upper level.) The lower stage represents the southern portions of the KC&G's KC-to-New Orleans main, the upper stage will represent the northern part of the KC-to-New Orleans main.

The quirk in all this was the recent decision to accommodate my TOC19 fetish on the SAME layout without having to change a ton of elements between eras. In other words, the towns are the same towns, the locations the same, etc, only it's the late 1880s. I accomplished that leap mentally by imgineering the history of my TOC19 theme, the Ozark & Southern, to have started construction many years before the KC&G even existed. The O&S started south out of Springfield in the mid-1870s. Within a year or so, it reached the Arkansas River to connect with the (prototype) Little Rock & Fort Smith, which passed through that area in the mid-1870s, but didn't reach Van Buren, AR until Jan 30, 1879. Given the connections on the north end at Springfield, MO, both the O&S and the LR&FS profited nicely from the arrangement. The era of my Ozark & Southern them will be the late 1880s, and that opens more opportunity for traffic given the coal in the Arkansas Valley area, and the coal north/northwest of Springfield (via connecting lines).

As for the KC&G's revised history, it still chartered in the mid 1890s and left KC for the Gulf. On their way to the Gulf, it was able to acquire the Ozark & Southern (and a few other key acquisitions), and thus leapfrogged ahead of the also-building-to-the-Gulf "Kansas City, Pittsburg & Gulf" (the prototype road that later became the KCS.) Unfortunately, the KC&G bogged down building through the Ouachita Mountains (there was no vital dancing partner as was the case with acquiring the O&S in the Ozarks) south of the Arkansas River, and thus the KC, Pittsburg & Gulf beat the KC&G to New Orleans, and it's been playing catch up ever since. To this day the management of the KC&G begrudgingly refer to the KCS as "that OTHER KC line."

Thus, my two fictional "histories" of the two lines are separate until the KC&G acquires the O&S, at which point the "history" is one in the same. Creating a "back story" for the O&S to mentally convince myself how the O&S came to be (which I also did decades ago for my KC&G), and how it became a part of the KC&G, is a lot of fun to me.

Heavens sake, I've done it again.

Jack asked me a basic question, like "what time is it?"... and I try to teach him how to build a watch. So typical of me... so...

Jack:

Somewhere south of Harrison but before getting out of the mountains to the south!

Could have saved all of us from the deluge of drivel had I simply typed that first and let it be!!

All fer now, off to Fort Smith to get some supplies and to pay for 5 sheets of Homasote.

Andre

Replies...

Randy:

Definitely A start... just not as smoothly as I'd hoped! As for the track plan, I'll figure something out eventually.

Lee:

Fixed it fer 'ya!

Vince:

Wayne:

You know about C/L Combat???  Amazing. I don't run into someone that knows what they're looking at when they see those things. Way back in my dark ages (when my hair was dark... shucks when I even HAD hair), I worked at Fox Mfg. Co. At the time Fox was the largest mfg'er of model airplane engines. I was a combat freak during those years, and have always liked it hence. However, WHEN I do anything, it's mainly just building nostalgia airplanes from my youth. What you're seeing:

* The little red one in the front: That's a kit-built 1/2A "Combat Kitten". I flew those back when I was lad and loved 'em, so, just had to have another one. Cox .049 "Black Widow" powered. I built my original Combat Kittens back the mid-60s.

* Yellow airplane: "Super Satan". Designed by Larry Scarinzi, circa 1967. Mine is scratch-built and uses a Fox 36X BB for power. Capable of 120+ MPH, but I don't pour the nitro to it, instead I use about 10% nitro, so when I fly it, it's only about 110 MPH or so.

* Immediately behind the Super Satan is another red airplane. It's a scratch-built "Demon" designed by Riley Wooten in '63 (I think). It is powered by a Fox 36 NB. On 10% nitro it's good for about 100 MPH. I flew a BUNCH of these back in my fledgling combat days. Easy and quick to build.

* The big red one in the back is a kit-built Combat Cat, the predecessor and big brother to the Combat Kitten. Great flyer, very maneuverable, but slow on account of the thick airfoil. On 10% it MAY do 90-95 MPH.

Now, let's talk about HOW you know about C/L Combat planes?

DaveB:

Thanks for the kind words about my layout room. As for dual eras, what I intend to do is:

* Each town that has a depot in the 1960s, I will build two for that town: The one for the 1880s will be rather new looking and painted oxide red (common color for depots early in the Ozarks). The same depot kit for the for the 1960s will look more "aged" w/faded Dept Buff w/Roof Brown trim. (I have two 1960s depot RTR already, leftover from years past.) I intend to use quick plastic kits and rely on the painting/weathering to look "good 'enuf". I think I now have enough depot kits on hand to supply all towns, both eras.

* The engine house at the crew change town will require two kits, also. The 1880s will be board n' batten, in good shape, and painted oxide red. The 1960s will be the same kit, but sheathed with corrugated sheet iron with some "time n' grime" thereon. I have two of the desired engine house kits on hand.

* The water tanks will be quickly removable, concrete footings for same will stay behind, embedded and blended into the terrain. That way, when the tanks are removed for the 1960s era, you can still see where they "used to be" some 10-15 years or so ago. I have enough water tanks on hand, too, I think.

* Any modeled road will have to be dirt. Any road bridge for a dirt road (like a small overpass over the tracks) will have to be wooden. Fortunately, wooden bridges were still common in the Ozarks back in the early-1960s. I recall several from my yearly sojourns as a child with mom and dad to The Fatherland to visit dad's family, and some of mom's family. (And I got to play with cousins out the wazoo! Dad's Father and Mother were rather, uh, "prolific". Yeah, that's the word, prolific!)

* Some key figures will need to be added or removed for the 1880s. For example, ladies in long dresses need to be added for the 1880s, and the "modern" dressed lady figures will have to be stored. I'm going to try to minimize the period figures for males, so as many of the males as possible can stay in place for both eras.

* What few vehicles will be on the layout will also need to be swapped. (Wagons for autos/trucks, for example.)

* The small towns and communities will primarily be represented on the back drop, and I will keep them generic enough to accommodate both eras. The Ozarks of the early-mid 1960s was very primitive, compared to say, Kansas City (where I was born and raised).

I readily admit that a dual era does add some complication, as well as some more work. However, it's truly the only way I have come up with that will allow me to scratch both itches (1960s and 1880s) on the SAME layout. Thus, work on the LAYOUT furthers both eras, only the workbench time will need to be divided between the two eras.

I won't be swapping eras at the drop of a hat. I figure it will take a couple hours to swap things out. Therefore, I intend to run an era until the fever gets flung on me to run the other era. Typically, my work bench time is invested into the current era that I have the hots for, and after about 2-3 months my energy for that era will sag, and then I'm ready for a change and go back to the working on the other era.

I will make it work.

Wow... came here to do an update on the layout, and spent my time gabbin' an' flappin' my chops instead. Ah well, later I'll update the layout.

All fer now!

Andre

@andre

Updating to Today...

Vince:

Seems a lot of us model building types have different hobbies than just model railroading!

Layout...

Wednesday, 2/13/19...

I didn't have a lot of time to spend out in the hobby hut, but LOT'S of chin scratchin' went on that day. Also, a LOT of piddly-diddly stuff that takes time, but once done you don't really see substantial visible progress. However, by the end of the work session I had the remaining portion of the lower stage, as well as the reverse loop area, tacked in place. I will need to radius the reverse loop shelf edge, too, but that will wait until the bench work for the lower town is in place so the two can be cut at one time.

Here's a pic of Wednesday's accomplishments:

See that little yellow speck over against the wall toward the loop area? That's a Mantua Rogers 10 wheeler (handiest I had within reach at the moment). It's sitting approximately at the clearance point of the "main" in the stage area. If desired, there could be train behind it all the way past the left edge of the picture!

Also, the inside of the reverse loop: I will have a small mechanics scooter in that corner for use when I go to the inside of the reverse loop for construction, and later, for any maintenance/repair that will need to be attended to. I tried it out and it's going to work fine. REALLY fine as my knees continue to age!

Thursday, 2/14/19...

Didn't do much in my hobby shack, first time rain wasn't threatening in weeks, so I went for a ride on my dual sport motorcycle down in the Ouachita Mountains. I rode a portion of the old Frisco's steam era helper district down near Talihina, OK. I love going to Talihina. I love the country, I love the culture (it's pretty much the capitol of the Choctaw Nation), and I love eating at Pam's Hateful Hussy Diner. It was high overcast and not particularly good for photos, but I enjoyed the outing. Here's a few pics of the old Frisco's line...

An overall view on my way over Winding Stair Mountain to reach the roadbed portion...

Then I turned onto the roadbed and started upgrade. Here's that view looking upgrade. At this point, the trains w/helpers would be getting a run leaving the little helper town of Bengal, OK (originally "Indian Territory" when the Frisco built through here in 1887) and gathering up as much of a run at Winding Stair Mountain as they could muster. The ascent would involve 2.25%, 2.6%, and even a short stretch of near 3%. The Winding Stair Mountain grades (both sides were helper sections) were short, but steep, and it played havoc with the Frisco's the operations over the Ouachita's.

And lastly, a couple scenes along the grade...

I love living in the region I live in.

Layout...

When I got home and unloaded, I went out to piddle about in my hobby hut, and thought I'd see how well my compound ladder to the stage tracks would line up with the track C/L's I had drawn on the raw plywood...

Nailed it!

FWIW: There will be two tracks of 10' length, 3 tracks of 9' length, and two tracks of 8' length.

Friday, 2/15/19...

After getting back from my supplies trip to Fort Smith, out to the hobby hut and finish installing the angle supports and measure/cut/fit the base for the lower level's "Town A". (I'll get around to naming my towns eventually.) Here it is tacked in place. Still more underpinning work, and still that radius on the return loop shelf to cut.

That stretched out tape measure is 10'. Wanted to see how a 10' train would look on this portion of the bench work. Also visible is my HVAC unit and my stereo unit. I like to have the oldies station rockin' while I'm doin' my thing in my hobby hut.

And the same deal with the stage area: Wanted to see about what the visual impact of a 10' train would be like...

(That's my temporarily re-purposed work bench over there on the left.)

That catches me up on the layout's status.

Now, Lee asked a serious question about height, so instead of being a smarty pants, I will now address that:

I'm 6'1".

Okay, SERIOUSLY...

I've learned by experience that building a multi level is an exercise of compromise. I learned from my tri-level layout that a lower level can be too low, and an upper level can be too high. The idea is to find the compromise for your stature, and the "givens n' druthers" the layout imposes. In this case, that ended up being:

* Lower level railhead sits at 39" above the floor.

* Upper level railhead sits at 58" above the floor.

The lower level height will give "acceptible" viewing of the lower level when standing, and EXCELLENT viewing when seated in my comfy rolling office chair.

The upper level height I've dealt with before on another layout, and operationally it's fine, but when it's time to work on the upper level, a small step up is nice.

No, it's not ideal, but 'ya do what' cha' gotta' do when 'ya gotta do's it so's you kin have what 'ya wanna' have when 'ya wanna' do's it.

At least, that's my story an' I'm a' stickin' to it like tick on a dog's ear!

All fer now!

Andre

Well planned out approach

  Hi Andre, looking good as you move forward. I was wondering if that shelf is thick enough to be self supporting or if you plan to add some stringers under it after it's all cut out? ....DaveB

DaveB...

Just finished underpinning the previous temporary nature of some of the bench work. So far, so good. I want it to be as light as possible, yet still do the job its designed to do. I need ONE more L-bracket to be completely done with lower Town A area. Unfortunately, yesterday Sutherland's was out of the L-brackets I use when I dropped by to re-supply. They have 20 more coming. I will probably purchase them all for portions of the upper level.

Time is arriving to install Homasote (weather permitting, I'll haul it home Monday) as well as run some wiring. (Wiring for DCC: Another thing I need to learn quickly.)

I have company right now, I'll get an update pic and upload it later.

Andre

More Pics...

Okay, spent some of today out fabricating L-girder supports, replacing one of the L-brackets with an L-girder support, screwing down (finalizing) all the plywood, installing the last L-girder over on the back (long) wall, plotted the track for the reverse loop and trimmed the reverse loop area, along with other odds and ends.

Here's a view looking from the lower stage area toward the reverse loop:

Here's a closer look at the reverse loop area with some sectional track in place to check my trammeled radius line.

(Ho-hum, again I nailed it. )

And here's a view from the current end of bench work looking back over the completed portion:

Couldn't resist setting some elements in their place to get an idea of equipment/structures-to-layout proportion:

And lastly, a closer look at the above place holding mini-scene:

I guess I'm ready for Homasote on this portion. I expect the L-brackets won't be at Southerland's until mid, or latter part, of next week. (I still need to install ONE more L-bracket in the Town A location.)

I was able to stabilize the reverse loop area without undue encroachment to the underside. This will mean HEAD CLEARANCE when I scooter under the bench work for access within during the construction, and later for maintenance. (That's a GOOD thing!) I also beveled the ends of the supporting L-girders, and will eventually pad them with a section of foam water pipe insulation. (Thinkin' ahead about me ol' noggin.)

The framework/bench work will be as light as practical, as will be the scenery itself. (Extruded foam and such.) I want to keep the layout as lightweight as practical in deference to the joist floor.

Soon I need to search the trackwork/electrical/DCC forum to ascertain what parameters need to be observed for stringing wiring for DCC. I think that time is at hand now as well.

This week in recap:

SO... I installed my FIRST L-bracket on Tuesday, and as of today, I have the stage and most of Town A ready for Homasote. Once the Homasote is in place, I can lay track if I want, or start the bench work on the peninsula, or I can lay some of the track (stage, for example, and part of Town A), AND... if I have the needed wire on hand by then, power it. Why... I could switch some cars after that!

All fer now!

Andre

Mock Up...

Hey gang!

After returning home from eating supper in Fort Smith, I got a hankerin' to go out to the hobby hut and pencil-in Town A.

Soon, I had the essential center lines drawn onto the plywood. I then placed switches in their locations (everything lines up as it did on my track plan), and as a final touch, I populated the town with cars on each of the yard/service/industry spurs as a visual aid to how the elements would look together. (An empty Atlas engine box sleeve stands in for the engine house!)

Here's looking toward the reversing loop:

Note: I used TOC19 equipment since it's the handiest to access. (They're stored out in the hobby hut, the diesels are here inside the house.)

Understand that immediately this side of the reverse loop access hole, there will be a full-width backdrop scene divider to lop off the utilitarian reverse loop/stage throat scene from view when operating at Town A.

And here's a view from the opposite end of Town A:

I breathed a sigh of relief to see that my mental visions of what I was designing on paper are shaping up like I envisioned. (That doesn't always happen with layouts, 'ya know.)

Life is good!

All fer now.

Andre