Reassigning functions

I don't have a PT (yet), but having run locos set up to use braking I do want to use that feature.

What I don't want is to keep having to hit the "shift" key on my throttle keypad in order to use it. 

So I will be doing a lot of function re-mapping to move the independent (and possibly train) brake down into the single digits. This will also allow me to stay consistent across decoder manufacturers, and not confuse my future operators. 

Each locomotive/consist is going to have a loco card explaining this....

Braking on legacy throttles

Same here,  I have one UT4 that requires Shift+F11 to brake.  That is not a workable solution.   I am either going to 1)  remap braking to a lower function key across the fleet,  2)  retire the throttle, or 3) designate it for non PT compatible engines, which I don't have many legacy decoders left in the fleet that don't support braking.   I sold a bag of Digitrax DH123 (circa 2002) decoders on eBay in bulk a while back.

I standardized on the Econami line for budget reasons and I am happy with the decision.  

Finding the brake

Great commentary Bob! I am having a lot of fun with ProtoThrottle too  

Before that I came up with a way to find the brake button on my Digitrax throttles without having to look away from the locos:

I used a regular map pin. I cut down the shaft to about 1/4", drilled a small hole in the button tip with a pin vise, then inserted the pin with a very small dab of superglue. After that I could always find that button in a hurry without having to look down at the throttle.

HTH

Pete

Functions Which One

I've been watching the ProtoThrottle with great interest and my plan is to purchase one once I do a few more LokSound conversions.

I have been using heavy momentum & braking for more than two years with a Digitrax DCS100 system using UT4 throttles and I remapped the functions such that the need functions are F6 and lower, as below:

F0 - Headlights

F1 - Bell        (Blue)

F2 - Horn      (White)

F3 - Mars Light if the loco has one.

F4 - Drive Hold   (Green)

F5 - Dynamic Brakes

F6 - Independent Brake    (Red)

The independent brake is one the UT4's lower Right and as such is easy to find.  To further help I used thin pieces of heat shrink tubing to colour some of the UT4's rubberized function buttons.  The important two are Drive Hold & the Independent brake.

I also Dim the headlight IF the independent brake is set On.

Thanks for giving the overview I look forward to eventually having a ProtoThrottle. --Brian

Looking at a Throttle.

I’ve seen several people reference “looking at the throttle” as if it is a problem.

I don’t get it. I use several different throttle types and glance at them a lot. Can someone fill me in?  Why is a quick look at the throttle such a deal breaker for so many people? 

Are you operating so fast that you can’t take your eyes from the train for a fraction of a second? 

Help me understand this please.

GS

Eyes On

GS - I think the problem isn’t having to look at the throttle as much as the need to press multiple buttons for the brake. My NCE and CVP throttles are similar so I also remapped the decoder brake to a single, easy to find button.   This is done in the decoder settings and not the throttle so may vary. Once the brake is easy to use the CV’s for momentum and acceleration can be bumped way up - even to th max. Now changing the speed tables, including maximum voltage, will force you to slow down. In addition, the engines sounds will now vary a great deal based on load and or drifting. Doing this is alone a game changer when running an engine more realistically.   

Sound feedback makes a huge difference

Yep, so true.

When I first tried a momentum throttle with back EMF in the 1970s (anybody remember Linn Westcott's True-Action-Throttle -- or TAT series?), it was interesting but there was no loco sound feedback so I did not find it to be all that compelling.

Then when I first heard a loco with sound, it was a fun novelty, but I could take it or leave it.

But NOW, with momentum coupled with sound feedback -- and then add in a handheld throttle that has levers on it that do notched throttling and brake functions -- suddenly it all converges and the combination totally rocks.

Separately, these features have been interesting but something of a novelty for me. As I said, I could take it or leave it.

But now with all this brought together, the combination is extremely compelling and it's a complete game changer for me. You have to experience for yourself to see how powerful it is once it all comes together.

I may have to order one of these.

I currently model 1915 but these are so cool and the advantages are so obvious that I may have to order one and a diesel locomotive just to play with it. It might cause me to shift eras to the 1940s or 2015.  Have they ever talked or speculated about some kind of a steam version of any kind? 

Looking at a throttle

Hi GS, good question!  For me the answer is that the moment I needed to find the brake button quickly on my DT402D was just as my loco was closing in to a joint. Actually it was at the slowest speed part of my normal operations - under 4 scale MPH.

In this case, the throttle has been on step 0 for a while, CV4 is set to 255 and I'm coasting in to make the joint. The only option left for me to stop at the right moment is the brake button on the DT402D. And I need to keep watching the loco for those last 10 or so scale feet to try and make a nice joint. Being able to feel the raised map pin solved that specific problem for me. I could work the brake without having to look away at the critical moment. 

But overall in general running, I agree that looking at the throttle isn't an issue. Indeed I'm looking at my PT a lot while I'm learning the controls. But with the PT pulsed brake setup, I tend to keep my finger on the brake lever and make a fine adjustment or two as I get close to the joint,  so I find I don't need to look at the PT at that moment.

Pete

Am I missing something?

Joe's comments are well taken, but I have not seen any mention of cost. I appreciate and enjoy the trend to realistic operation, but my reaction is "GetReal" Around $500 for a throttle to run trains? The SS moths in my wallet are telling me to think twice on this baby! Anyone convince me I am wrong? John Colley, Sonoma

I could say that you can afford what you want to afford...

... But that would be too simplistic. Sometimes it doesn't matter how much you want something, it just doesn't fit in the budget. The PT is expensive, there is no getting around it.

It is the truth that some model railroaders have more disposable income than others, and I for one am glad they exist. If they didn't, I suspect a great many of the model railroading products we have today would not exist.

Interesting thing about

Interesting thing about affording something and budgets. If one has a monthly budget use as many months as it takes to get it. Granted it is not cheap, it is well made and quality will be remembered long after price is forgotten. It is also a product that will be used or can be used with every train you run. Think about that for a few minutes. It is like your dcc system, most of those are not cheap either but they get used every time you run your trains.

If you have 10 locomotives and run them 2 at a time and run them about the same amount of time you will use each locomotive set about 1/5 th of the time you run trains. You would use the throttle about 5 times as much. It becomes a bargain when you look at it in that fashion.

This is a product that is likely to outlast many layouts and be able to be used on each subsequent layout. Hard to beat a product like that. Other products in the dcc field can do almost the same thing  however many of them are not in the same class as this item. I commented in another thread comparing this to other throttle control systems is like comparing a Rolls-Royce to a Hugo, in some cases where there are quality systems involved it might be a Rolls-Royce to a Toyota but it is still a huge difference.

Watch some videos of the guys using it. You just might find it is worth more than you realize.

No

The cost of two sound locos

Costs

The PT is a new tool. When you buy tools do you buy quality or not? IN my mind this a great addition to my tool box and it is very addictive. This is a age old thing, brass vs. plastic, craftsmen kits vs Cornerstone, Mercedes vs Ford.  I get it, you think it’s too expensive and that is fine, but remember ISE is marketing this to a niche crowd and not to everyone. Rob in Texas makes a good cost comparison as does Joe F. Budgets though are personal and what someone says is expensive may not be to the next guy. No matter, happy modeling.

Proud owner of a PT

TomO

As with any significant

Has there actually been "naysayers"?  This new throttle looks cool and realistic in most every way.  I am looking forward to trying one out eventually when I get a layout built.

For those of us ignorant of the "lingo" what does that mean?

  I agree, around $500 give or take, is a lot of money but if you want the "Mercedes" of model train throttles custom designed and not sold in massive numbers, they are not going to be cheap.  But hasn't it always been that way?  The good stuff is usually pricey.  If it's too much, don't buy it and use something cheaper.  The price is a lot for my modest budget too, but at some point, assuming they are still available next year, I'll probably save up and spring for one myself.

I'll chime in…

As one of the developers of the throttle, I'll reiterate what our goals were and give you a couple comparisons.

I originally proposed the throttle to Michael Petersen from ISE because I REALLY wanted to operate my diesels with a miniature control stand versus a keypad and rotary knob. Once we got far enough along with development it became apparent that producing the throttle for other diesel modelers would be a benefit for those, like me, that truly enjoy the most realistic experience. I mean, why go to all the trouble of machining and electronic/programming development only to produce 4-6 units? The throttle is most definitely a niche product that more than likely will not take the model railroad community by storm. In other words, it's a very limited market and we don't expect to leave our day jobs or even make a lot of money off the production. But we're having a lot of fun seeing modelers embrace the throttle and hear their enthusiasm for how it has enhanced their hobby experience. This is very satisfying. We also pride ourselves on providing the best customer service and I believe our current customers see this to be true. We respond to your concerns and work to remedy any issues as quickly as possible. In addition, we plan to always support our customers because we're modelers too and appreciate when we receive great support.

As far as cost, here are my comparisons: 

1. We wanted the throttle to be a very high-quality piece of hardware. Thus we took a lot of time and expense to have the electronic components reflect the prototype with proper positioning and detents, spring-loaded horn, latching bell, etc. In addition, we had to have the faceplate and handles be milled out of metal versus plastic to reflect a real control stand. These components are much more expensive and involved than a simple plastic enclosure, keypad, and knob. We understand that modelers will make a comparison between the PT and a typical DCC handheld controller, but when one factors in the complexity, components, and realism, we believe there is simply no comparison. 

2. We also like to use the comparison between two sound equipped engines and the PT because it's easy to understand. For the cost of basically two sound equipped engines a modeler can be fully outfitted with a PT and the appropriate DCC receiver. Each modeler will need to make their own decision on the value. I can honestly say that up to this point we have yet to hear from any of our customers that the PT didn't meet their expectations and that they would like to return it. It could happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

For those that are turned off by the cost, I would ask that you keep an open mind and at least experience the throttle for yourself. If you try the throttle and still think it's too expensive – fair enough. 

Grip-n-rip

Grab the throttle and go. No slow starts or stops. Fun for some - painful for others. 

I wish two quality On3 or On30 engines could be purchased for this price. Not knocking Bachmann. Now move to large scale or ride-on locos. The PT is a drop in the bucket. Even my cell phone cost more. 

For those of us that desire a tactile controller, there are no other off-the-shelf options. While we spend hours building a layout with realistic scenery, backdrops, rolling stock and structures, we operate our engines from a railfan perspective of a toy train from the mountaintop. Even the operators are creating dispatcher paneled and forms to mimic railroad movements!

Throw out the smartphone, WiThrottle, and other monster digital, push button controllers. This may seem like a niche market now but it looks like a revolutionary way to run an engine that extends the experience from toy to cab.  Think back to the future. 

Smartphone vs. PT

Neil's right - my Motorola smartphone cost more than a PT. An iPhone would cost a lot more.

The difference being that Verizon lets me pay it off over a couple of years.

The reasons against getting one are starting to tumble.

I'm confused probably about a

I'm confused probably about a year or two {time flies}on this very form people were complaining about the size of throttles how digi trax was small easy to get to knob NCE hammer head large hard to reach knob with one hand and this and that now with this throttle you almost certainly have to use two hands . Basically it still turns on the lights ,horn, bell and throttle just looks more proto than others . I have not had a chance to see or operate one so my opinion is vague at best also went from 128 speed notches to 8 is it smooth or jumpy?what about all those F keys we use how do you get to say F15 ? I guess you still loose control of your train to operate full throttle in esu decoder how about F5 and F6 in a T2 decoder how do you work that lot of questions at this time .For me I'll set back and watch more reviews as I'm Interested but far from being sold
?

Decoders make the difference

A great decoder makes the ProtoThrottle a home run. I'm talking about the latest generation decoders such as those offered by ESU, Soundtraxx and TCS. And if you run locomotives in a consist it is best to stick to one brand. Personally, I prefer LokSound Selects and V4.0 decoders. Even before I had a PT, I liked LokSound for their Full Throttle Drive Hold feature that allows you to lock in the speed step. 

For the ProtoThrottle, another reason I am glad I chose LokSounds is the ability to remap functions anywhere you need them. Now I can set up the lighting functions just like the prototype. As far as those who think it is a bad thing to be limited by only 8 notches or speed steps. It really is not that big of a deal when you have the acceleration delay set at a higher level. For one, it makes the model move a lot more like the real thing and another it takes more time to reach the next speed step.

Play with a PT with a loco with an decoder that's been set up right and you'll see what I mean.

Tim G

RE: I'm confused...

Take a little time and watch some of the videos. You will see the transition on the throttle are smooth. It is a matter of momentum settings. 

I operate my ProtoThrottle (PT) with two hands. But, I also use two hands with a DT400 series throttle. (This is on my Digitrax system) I can mostly one hand a UT4 but need to use two hands for some functions. I don't feel the PT is harder to use than my Digitrax throttles or the NCE throttles I have used on other layouts. 

You can configure the PT to use what ever function assignments you need. It is very flexible in that regard. I have my throttle set up with profiles of several locos using both ESU LokSound and Soundtraxx Tsunami 1 decoders. The loco profiles are stored in the throttle.

You don't have to remember what loco uses what function key for the brake... You put it in the profile in the throttle and the brake is the brake for all your locos. Works the same for lights (dim, bright, other lights) and other "functions".

I really, really like my ProtoThrottle even though it but a MAJOR dent in my "train budget".

PT certainly changes the game *for me*

Computer train simulators offer both a "model railroader" mode of control and a "prototypical" mode of control. The continued existence of that dichotomy is a testament to the impact that the strange evolution of DCC has had on us. Model railroaders, as a group, have departed from the direction Westcott was headed and sort of boxed themselves into using an array of function buttons to cue sounds and actions, rather like controlling a marionette dangling from strings. 

The PT returns us to Westcott's vision and I couldn't be more delighted: now we can think and act like the engineer in the cab and the sounds and motions occur automatically as a result. For me, nirvana, and until the PT was announced I despaired of ever getting here. 

I'm a schoolteacher, so my budget is VERY tight, but I bought two anyway (and incidentally, I also went out and bought my first LokSound-equipped locomotive to ensure a cutting edge experience). I'm introducing my students to model railroading and many of the students who start with me this year may never know any control paradigm other than the PT. 

Maybe I'm a niche, but I'm a very happy niche right now. As Joe put it, running today's spectacularly smooth-running model locomotives with incredible sound using realistic controls that put you in the cab, totally rocks. 

Jeff Allen

Seriously considering the PT