"Interested"?

Maybe not so much not 'interested,' but the youth are certainly not participating in the hobby in a measureable way.

It's a simple fact and I'm tired of people trying to say it isn't a fact.

Go to any model train show anywhere. You'll see a lot of retirment-age people, many middle-aged people, and a lot of kids. Yes, those kids will lose interest, find cars/girls/internet/whatever for several years and then might come back after they're older. Generally, they won't be back until their 30s or so, once they have the time and money for it.

But along the way, most of those kids won't be back. We all know this but collectively somehow won't accept that.

As for the internet, yeah, that's a missing piece that really can't be tracked (pun inteneded). Vendors only know that John Q Smedlap ordered track and a locomotive with his credit card one day. John might be 17 or 70 and the vendor will never know. Neither wll any of us.

The 20-somethings aren't joining clubs and going to events like those older folks, so it's tough to tell if any are taking part in anything. If they don't go to shows, join clubs or the NMRA or participate online in any appreicable way, I think the hobyb would have noticed it by now.

I think it's great you're in the hobby and I hope you keep going with it.

All I know is that I'm geting dangerously close to 50 and I'm still the youngest paticipating person in the hobby every time I go to any op session, show or meeting.

So tell me ...

Conventions and Train Shows - Plenty of Your People

I see lots of youg people running trains or as visitors at various events.

Just about all the modular clubs have members who are pre-teens, teens or young adults (anybody under 60 is young to me) and everyone is actively participating. This is true whether it's a Regional convention, The National Train show or a show like the Amherst Railway Society Train show.

I for one am not worried about the hobby and the infusion of new participants.

Naturally of course you don't get everybody excited about this kind of hobby. I am not interested in many other hobbies that others enjoy. I won't spend a year or more on a RC model plane to just watch it pull a kamikaze on it's maiden flight. I'm also not going to jump (can't jump anymore) into some fancy winged parasail type suit and jump off a cliff.

Bottom line -  just don't fret.

Trains are coming back...

Marin County CA has just opened a new commuter line, Los Angeles Metro is still growing, and they are building high speed rail in the central valley. There's so much rail traffic in New York that they are rebuilding Penn Station and plan a major expansion and a new tunnel under the Hudson river.

There's political push back from NIMBYs and the trucking industry, but the downsizing trend is reversing.

Freight hauling has changed, but there there are over 500 class II and III railroads, compared to 220 in 1980.

Tourist trains seem to be doing steady business, even when Thomas is not running.

pqe

Young Participation

People have been singing this tune for 50 years, and it hasn't died yet. To quote a good friend of mine "I really wish this hobby would hurry up and die already because my wallet can't take [all the cool new stuff that keeps coming out]".

That's the typical pattern for this hobby. The "average" hobbyist has always been middle-aged to older. It's hard to build a model railroad when you're living in a dorm or other shared housing and paying your way through college tuition. A lot of guys are "armchair" hobbyists until they settle down into family life and their career, when they finally have the finances and space to pursue the hobby.

For a lot of those kids, the toy train was just a toy, they were never going to seriously continue in the hobby anyway.

There's a lot of them online, they just tend to use the social media groups rather than these old-fashioned dedicated forums.

BTW, I'm 35 and I've been a member of my club for over 10 years. I'm not an NMRA member, but neither are most of the older guys at the club either...

And YouTube

And YouTube, which I call the ultimate social media site that crosses all ages. That's why we've launched Ken Patterson's weekly what's neat video podcast on YouTube.

And it's working. When I encountered 3 young guys eating lunch at a table at a recent big train show, I asked them if they knew about MRH and if so how they knew about us.

"Yes, we know about MRH. Ken Patterson's What's Neat!"

So there you go. If a firm is paying attention, YouTube, the #2 website on the planet just behind Google, is where young folks find out about the hobby today. Put more trains on YouTube and we'll get more kids in the hobby -- it's that simple!

Shifting emphasis

I am 62, so filter what I say by that fact. I am in the NMRA, currently helping with the community outreach program of our division, and in several operating groups. While it is true that the majority of participants are 50+, there are still quite a few teens, and young adults who come to the shows, clinics and participate in ops groups here. In speaking and interacting with them, I think I am getting a perspective on their mindset.

First, railroad engineers/jobs are no longer the "glamour" positions they used to be. By this I mean that other professions and pursuits have followed the advance of technology to the premiere status held by young folks.

Second, even though the above is true, their interest in the electronic,mechanical, and artistic sides of this hobby still resonate very strongly with them. They have a decidedly technological bent on how this translates to them, such as computer train control and software generation of railroading i.e. TrainzANE,

In a large percentage of those who enjoy the hobby, a father or other significant figure exposing them to railroading helped to create this interest. This leads me to the inescapable conclusion that a break in traditional paradigms must happen to ensure the continued participation in the hobby. We need to recognize that our way of "playing" with trains is not the only way of doing so. We must step outside our clubs and organizations into their world like maker fairs, computer gaming groups, etc. This generation is not made up of "joiners" but is centered on lone wolf and individualistic attitudes. They will join together with others, but usually only after they have assured themselves that these others share their passions, but will still allow their individual expressions and ideas. We must open our thinking to include this type of activity and thought in order to encourage new blood into the hobby. I don't have any real answers yet, but am working on a few ideas and plans to attempt in this vein. If any of these show any progress, I'll be sure to present them here.

Jor

3 guys?

Joe, I get your point, but this sounds like the well-worn mindset of, "well, I know a cople of people who are doing X, Y and Z, so therefore that means that there's a lot of other people doing it," when you might actually know the only 2 people in the world for which XY&Z means anything.

I won't go into specifics, but I knew a guy who was a proponent of a hobby (nothing RR-related) that he seriously overestimated. He surrounded himself with the few people into it, and got delusional about how many people were also in it. I knew what was going on and tried to get him to think twice, but he invested his life's savings and put the house into a mortgage for a business to support that hobby. He thought he'd do just fine, but to his horror, he only sold to the same people, less than a hundred of them, and many of them told him they were surprised he'd risked starting the business. After a couple of years, he'd lost everyhting, his wife left and the few people in that hobby had to do an intervention with him at one point. A broken man a few years later, only then did he realize that he didn't get that the hobyb wasn't as big as he thought it was.

I've known plenty of people like that. They think they and their friends are into something, so surely, there's lots more like us out there, right? This is the same, "surround yourself only with those who agree with you" mindset that has brought back the flat earth theory and made people actually believe we never went to the Moon (both comical ideas that would never foster outside of the closed environment that the internet allows for).

As for YouTube, I agree that many (of not most) there are younger, but I know plenty 'old head' types that troll YouTube to the point that would put a high school girl to shame. Numbers of view don't generally lie (though some use programs to 'click' oncontent for numbers when it's not actually being watched as much, a friend of mine who was getting ad money off YouTube did this before he got caught doing so) but who is actually doing the clicks? How do you know that MRH videos are mostly being watched by people under middle age?

I can't undestand why so many people in the hobby are delusional about the hobby simply not being as big as it used to be. But dying? No way; it's still way too big for that. Maybe in a few more generations, but not in my lifetime nor for anyone in their 20s, I'd think.

Facebook is also a HUGE part

Facebook is also a HUGE part of social media for this kind of thing that cuts across age. It's less youth directed, but it is where parents look now for local info and is a natural place to congregate. Some members of our local club were chatting with the director of the local museum here in Roseville. She said they get almost ALL of their interest off of facebook. Their regular website is next to useless in this regard. And this tracks my experience as well.

Re: And YouTube

Is there a link to MRH's You Tube posts somewhere, like under "Goodies"?

It was found by using the Search feature, but a readily visible direct link would be nice.

TIA,

MRH YouTube channel

Well I am not going to agree

Well I am not going to agree with the assumed facts that it is dying. For the same reason it was dying when I was a kid, that was decades ago. If it was where did all these crusty old guys come from that are here 50 years later, hint they were young when it was dying before. Our hobbies change over time, Model Railroading was always one of my hobbies. So was shooting, riding motorcycles, fishing, hunting and others. The one hobby I have stayed with is model railroading. Nice thing about this hobby is it is a life long hobby unlike some which many of us age out of.

There have always been a large percentage of us in the older age groups. I suspect it is a hobby that tends to attract folks in retirement more than many others so if folks have been dividing their time between many things as they age if one was model railroading they just might get involved in it more than many of the others. This is a hobby a person bound in a wheel chair could do if he or she choose to with out too much difficulty. Many others would not be a viable alternative.

We still have lots of products available to us in many cases much better products than from the old days. I think we will be just fine. One reason I really believe this to be true is because of the great many skills one develops in this hobby. Wood working is not the big deal it once was, neither is boat building etc. We still have a large group of creative people in this country and many will find a suitable venue for their creativity. One that is quite good at attracting these folks is model railroading.

I'm Not Worried Yet

Also being somebody that's under the age of 40 i've noticed a trend of recent times. There's a lot of people who are 40 and younger doing ho and n scale. Yes they are not at shows. But they are using social media to share their passions. And a lot of the people who are visiting 2 local hobby stores in my area,are the same age group as i am. I find that most of the fearful train guys are retirees that spent big money on lionel or american flyer collections years ago, and cannot resell them for what they spent. Because who at my age really wants a 60 year old rusting 0 gauge engine for $200? But at least i see people buying HO and N quite a bit at shows, so i'm not concerned one bit about the "hobby death spiral". If it's dying, why have there been new manufacturers popping up lately? Mostly in the 2 scales that I just mentioned.

My informal poll

SO WHAT; if the kids arn't

SO WHAT; if the kids arn't interested. I'm 68, I'm sure the hobby will be around as long as I need it. Beyond that , whatever.

 I didn't sign on to baby sit

Oldsters were Youngsters

When I was a youngster, about 10, a friend's father took us to see the Lionel display at the Lionel Bldg. in New York City. Two years later I got my first train set. Of all the kids in the neighborhood I only recall 3 having trans. All the kids were interested, liked seeing them run, but most had different passions. As I recall Lionel cars were $5 to $6 but in a time when allowances were .25 to .50 cents, building a layout was tough. So now we fast forward, I'm in my 70's, and son of a gun only 2 or 3 of all the people I know are into model railroading. Everyone is interested, love seeing photos, a few even dropped by to see first hand, but most have other passions. I think it safe to say that model railroading isn't dieing, maybe holding it's own.

Trains may not be in fashion

Youth

I don't know about in your area, but down here in South Florida, the youth is what keeping the hobby alive and well. There is only one real hobby store here in the Southeast area of Florida and that is in North Miami, Ready to Roll. They only carried trains of all scales, no R/C planes or cars or boats, just trains, trains, and more trains. Each room is for a different scale. Very well organized. You should see that store, always busy, on Saturday it looks like a mad house with the amount of people, of all ages buying what they need. Plenty of youth. Also if you go to Youtube, there is this college kid (Brickbuilder 711) him and his friends they have  a bunch of FEC/CSX RR videos on Youtube. All of this kids they spent their free time recording videos of railraod in Florida. Have I told you the hobby is dying ?  Yeah Right !!  The only one dying is us old farts !!  But the hobby is alive and well !

Also, have you noticed at the MRH magazine, how many pages of new products are coming out ? Come on people, open your eyes and look. You think all those new products will be coming out if the hobby is dieing ?

The new generation is picking it up like we were in our youth. There is something about trains that everyone likes. Don't ask me what it is, but there is. You see trains everywhere. You see a fashion shoot and there is a train in the background. You see a coffee ad and see someone sitting in a train, I even seen automobile adds with trains in them. People are fascinated with trains.

Daniel Coombs

Youth in the hobby...

Huh. Last swap/meet train show I went to had a big N scale modular layout on display. About half of the people behind the table running things were teenagers or college-age...

1971

Joe is right...

Mr. Fugate,

You seem to have an excellent grasp on where the youth is at in this hobby. More than most.

To all the naysayers, I'm 31, a millenial, and at times feel like an old guy; "my second daughter is on her way this month." I work to stay with the latest trends and can point to four things that resonate with the new generation.

Youtube - I used Facebook through college when it began and when it was only open to students. I have watched it blossom with online communities for virtually every rail interest group. I'd like to let you all know that Facebook is not the future, it is just an excellent resource at the moment. Ask kids 20 or younger and Facebook is not the cool place anymore. Youtube reigns supreme with kids putting out there own model railroad work and content, sharing with friends, and watching others achieve and demonstrate. Put your layout videos out there and you might be surprised. One of the first videos that came up for me was off of Tim Dickinson's layout. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3wp2DJ4MRc 2.5 million views is a few more looks than your layout will ever get at a train show.

Technology - We may not have ties to railroad professionals, but we are all fascinated by the other aspects of the hobby including electrical work, woodwork, historical research, artistry, etc... Our biggest difference is that we are all fascinated by computer and programming technology to a certain degree because it infiltrates our social lives and jobs. The hobby will continue to progress in this direction with our interests. Out with DC and in with smartphone throttles, DCC, sound, 3D printing, and automation!

Space and Budget - Our generation won't be building basement empires. We have more hobby options, less income, and less space than prior generations. Many people I know are renting into their thirties and can't settle down just yet. My young family is doing very well  thanks to my amazing wife, but we still don't have the space for a large layout, "My layout is at 21 sq. ft. which will stay that way for the foreseeable future." Millenials are on the move constantly and the modular, TOMA approach is the best idea to address this in my opinion.

Thomas the Tank Engine - He came to the US in the late 1980's on public television and every kid born since then including myself is probably coming to the hobby through this ambassador in one way or another. Ask almost any kid under 5 and they will know about Thomas or be a Thomas fanatic. My first daughter being the latter. Nothing you build on your layout will draw kids more than Thomas running around with his friends. Apologies to the rivet counters.

The hobby is doing fine and if you want to promote and expand it, come meet our generation on our own terms.

Don't underestimate the youth

My local train shop is owned

My local train shop is owned by a kid in his 20s...  https://mainemodelworks.com

As the kids say, "Mic Drop"