Question about using RRCirKits

Jas,

Can you post some additional information on the RRCirKits system.  I'm in the planning stages of my signal system and need all the help I can get.

Thanks

Andy H

Minooka, Il

Can you post some additional

Hi Andy,

I'm only using the RRCirKits - Tri-Coloured LED's to replace the older style bi-coloured LED's.  I dont use any of Dick Bronson's detection or signalling hardware, I have heard great things about it and his support is fantastic when I have dealt with him.  I did consider his hardware as he has everything covered.

I use a StandAlone - LocoNet for my detection & signalling as my command station is NCE.  The choice was based on the fact that the Digitrax hardware is readilable available, works well as a StandAlone LocoNet without a Digitrax Command Station, and I had great support here in Australia from someone who had installed one before and knew how to program it all.

Jas...

Still following along

As usual, great work ! I too am using NCE, a ProCab 5 amp, and although I am not at the signaling stage, you have inspired me to at least pursue signalling on my layout. I know that you put that as a priority on your railroad and built and wired it accordingly. Your use of LocoNet intrigues me, since all my previous research kinda put me off doing signalling with NCE. YOU make it look so easy, with excellent pictures and details on how you are making your signals, I guess I need to ask about wiring, or connections, or other hardware you are making / using to control your signals. Unlike you, I have not found anyone to tutor me through this to make it easier. I am guessing I can find a video on LocoNet and NCE working together ?

Michael

Glad you're still following Michael...

Michael,

Glad to hear someone is getting something out of all the signaling posts, and thanks for the kind comments too.  There are that many posts, and that much information it would be easy to say "no way".  The fact you're still following along and wanting to install signals is great to see.

I'm always happy to share and/or help out anyone that needs the help, I do plan on writing a series of articles for MRH on the signal install on my layout but that is sometime off as I'm still installing it all.  It will also help later on down the track if I start forgetting how I did things too.

The only real issue that you need to overcome with getting a standalone Digitrax LocoNet to interface with JMRI and the NCE command station is the ground for the BDL's and the LocoNet Termination that would normally exist with a full Digitrax System.  When I was shown what is required to get it to work, it is actually really simple.

Its not that easy "at first" and there were a few little gremlins that popped up along the way that nearly killed me, but once I found those issues everything has been extremely stable and has operated the way it should since.  I'm not sure of any videos on YouTube but I can give you the photos (from my layout) you will need to get it to work if you need them.

The only caveat I can say is its a big commitment and you need to do a lot of pre-planning before hand.  If your layout isnt setup for detection it may require you to do the whole lot again, so be prepared that was a huge setback with my signal install and almost made me give up.  The first article in the series will be about this, and everthing that you need to consider before taking the plunge, you can class it as a "buyer beware" statement of sorts.

There is only a handfull of references on the internet that reference a NCE DCC System with Standalone LocoNet, and they dont have all the little tricks either.  Then there is all the Digitrax stuff and JMRI program that you need to get your head around.

These are really good reference point to start from:

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/install/LocoNet_for_non_Digitrax_layouts.pdf

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/loconet/StandaloneLocoNet.shtml#dataterm

Not trying to put you off, just making you prepared if you still are going ahead.  It will make the whole install go better if your are prepared with all that is needed.  So if you do go ahead let me know I'll be happy to help out...

Jas.

Excellent !

I can wait for the article in MRH. Signaling has always just been a tickle in my brain, very much admired by others work, but explainations on how to do it have been many and confusing. You are the first that I know that is using NCE and doing what I would do on my layout. You know I have always admired your trackplan, and now your signaling. I am just glad you are working out all the bugs for me !

BTW: How is your wife doing with all this after telling you to get a hobby ?!!!!

Michael

Aspects

They look very nice, I'm glad i'm modeling the Reading in 1903 so all I need are a couple interlockings and some train order signals  (mulling over semaphores or banjoes).  While I applaud creating the prototypical signal aspects, will your operators actually understand them or do something different between an approach medium and a medium approach medium?  Not saying not to do it, I know if it was my layout I would do it just for my own satisfaction, but nuance is often lost (sigh).

Signal System control

Andy,

You may want to look at Signalogic Systems (www.signalogicsystem.com). I have used them for crossing activation and am very impressed. Kevin is very helpful and will work with you via internet to design the system you want. His day job is designining and consulting to the Rail Signal Industry so he has a very good understanding of what your signals should be saying and when.

Good luck

Bill

Their Stuff Is Amazing

Their SSB and NMRAnet are good.  Go with the NMRA net.  They have a board, that board can more or less signal an entire switch and run the switch motor if its a stall motor.  They have other boards that do combinations of stuff.  Each board connects with off the shelf internet cables (power and signal data).  The boards have connection hardware to the signals....i think they make the best stuff.  Plus if your a nerd like me either SSB or NMRAnet both are friendly to making your own boards also.

Jas, nice work on the

Jas, nice work on the signals. I tend to read articles on all systems even though they might not be useable to me because of a different system etc. I will be looking forward to what gets into the pages of MRH from you in the future.

I enjoy the nice job on your layout and the prototypical accuracy of it even though a different type was used in the area I will be modeling. In fact two different types were used. Pennsy position lights and B&O color position lights depending on the route through town.

Since I am free lancing I will choose one and use it everywhere. I am leaning toward the pennsy style as all lights are white, so leds will be simpler. I also think they look better than the other type. Detection via trak power is a bother to me and I am leaning toward a visual or optical detection system so the only things going through the rails are command control signals and power.

The realism your signals add to the layout is fantastic. Coupled with the realism for your track layout and it just screams prototype. The whole in this case is greater than the sum of its parts. Even with the scenery not completed it really looks good.

position lights were yellow

Signals, CPL & PL

Jas, first I want to say those signals look great and I too will be looking forward to your MRH articles.

As to the CPL vs PL signals the CPL signal does not have a light in the middle like PL signals did, so there is one less LED per signal. As already stated the PL's used yellow not white for better visibility through fog. And they had some ingenious lens systems to help prevent the locomotive headlights (and other ambient light) from washing out the signal. If interested check out:  http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/pl/pl.htm

New method for LED Searchlight heads...

Over the last few days I have been refining the method I have previously used to install the RR CirKits Tri-Colored LED's into the layouts searchlight & dwarf signals.

The new version of the LED's come pre-wired with 36-Awg magnet wire.  And they are tiny!

Some would say that tiny can be a pain to work with, and that is certainly true if you had to solder the magnet wires on these.  But having them so small makes them much easier to attach to the Bivar light-tubes that I use for the searchlight lenses.

A small amount of CA glue on the LED and lense face and the LED is secured quickly.

The next step is to feed the magnet wires through the signal head and then push fit the light tube/lense into the signal head.

When completed these make fantastic and realistic railroad signal masts with prototypical aspect colours...

Jas...

Aspects and Indications

Jas,

Congrats on the mainline signal progress. It must feel great knowing the end is in sight! And the colors on the those LED's really look good. 

In answer to Dave H.'s question about whether or not the crews will understand, or know the difference between, the various aspects, I have a suggestion for you. I have placed small cards on the fascia at various locations around the railroad that have the aspects and indications on them. The photo below shows one of the cards.

The cards were done in Excel, laminated, and then attached to the fascia with a small strip of Velcro across the top of the card. With the Velcro, the crews can pull the bottom up to view rather than bending over.

There is only one intermediate signal on the line, so I did a separate card for the aspects and indications that would be encountered at this point. Below is a photo of the two cards- intermediate and absolute.

Posting something like this might help your crews understand the various aspects they encounter. As for Dave's question about whether or not the crews actually care, some do and some don't. I believe those who do care appreciate the help the cards provide. For those who don't, they understand that if it ain't all red, they can go...

Tom Patterson

@Rob, @Scott re: Pennsy & B&O

The position lights WERE all yellow on the PRR lines through (about) 2 years ago (= 2016)  ...  they've been converted to color & position lights now.  Watching as some were all yellow and others were converted was a bit annoying (Quick, get a photo of the old one here -- Oh, No, it's gone!) .

And, Rob, they Were Yellow... the photo by Jas, above, nearly matches the yellow they had.

A query:  which lines shared B&O  vs.  PRR  colors?   And, Is the PRR setup obsolete now?

(just for reference to those modeling across the transition ages)

BTW, I admire the result.. .great work!

That’s a great idea Tom...

Thanks Tom, it’s getting closure by the day!

I was contemplating having the various aspects & indications printed on the back of my operations paperwork, but I really like your idea being on the fascia on Velcro.

My setup is just that little bit more conmicated because it has the flashing aspect too, so I’m going to need a quick reference guide until they learn the signal system.

As always great to see little snap shots of your layout!

Jas...

Bivar

Jas...is there a reason you are using the Bivar light pipes ? Seems like any clear solid round stock would work...but then again...I am learning from you ! I am really liking how the RR CirKits are improving. Yes..smaller IS better. Can't wait for your full article...but following along is great information. I am curious about the flashing aspect...that is something new to me. Since I am modeling my own road, I need to pick a real RR signalling system and learn its aspects. I have an interchange with CB&Q and SP ( Cotton Belt ) but also grew up within miles of the N&W, so logically I would pick one of those to model my signals on. I have never visited a layout with full signalling, so all of this is very new to me. Placement, number of aspects, etc.etc.etc.. I am hoping Google is my friend for pursuing information.

Michael

Just one site no need for google.

I think all the signaling information that you could want is available at this one site:

http://www.railroadsignals.us/rulebooks/rulebooks.htm

Hi Michael...

The reason for the Bivar light pipes is they are readily available, the domed end on the tube spreads the light evenly and is also frosted, and the fact they simple push fit into the signal head.  If I used something like Plastruct clear rod I’d have to sand/polish one cut end which would be time consuming.

The RRCirKits upgrades have cut my build time for a signal head & signal bridge by at least half.  The flashing aspects are all from the CR 1988 & NS 2008 Signal Rules.  I have them because they are part of the JMRI program/signal definitions, they can be removed from the definitions if you so wish.

As for picking a signal definition system for your RR, I guess if your not fussed about using a prototypical one, stick  to something simple that will be easy for you and your operators to pick up.

Bivar Light Tubes?

Could we get more info....? Please

I looked back and couldn't find any info on them

Hi Don...

Here is the link for the Bivar website:

https://www.bivar.com/led-indicators/light-pipes/rigid/vertical-press-fit-mount/plp2?p=PLP2-125

And I get mine from Mouser here:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bivar/PLP2-125-D?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuu2qEGwSNRoCaOwCO77pB5Ns4ce94gCVnQ70QQ7rrX0A%3d%3d

Jas.

Thank you Jim...and Jas

Thanks for the link Jim....lots of information on that site on signals. Since my railroad in firmly planted in 1956, I was thinking of searchlight signals...but I am now thinking the trilight signals may be more appropriate. I will need to do more research to understand what is best for my railroad.

And Jas..you are absolutely correct..KISS is probably the best direction for me. But I am soooo impressed from following your direction and the great signals you have made. I have used JMRI for programming my locomotives, but have not pursued the signalling aspects of it. Now the NCE Light-It has kinda-sorta peaked my interest in maybe that might be a solution also. FIRST...more reading and understanding signals and signalling !!!!

Michael

Scratch building Signal Masts...

Sometimes in the hobby necessity can often create a favourable outcome.  Today ended up being one of those great outcomes.

In the final push to install the last of the signals I realised I had ran out of triple head signal masts.  I normally use Tomar's triple head mast and replace the 1/8" bi-coloured LED's with the RRCirKits - tricoloured LED's with Bivar light pipe lenses.  The cost to buy the Tomar type is quite an outlay, and one that would see a two/three week wait for them to arrive from the USA too.

So looking at a surplus mast that I had lying around I decided to deconstruct it and reconfigure it to a triple head mast.  The process was pretty straight forward and I was also able to adapt the IHC plastic searchlight heads to fit the Tomar mast.

The next stage is to fit the RRCirKits LED's and place onto the layout, this mast will protect the east mainline into Harrisburg...

More photos once I have it wired, installed on the layout & wired into JMRI & PanelPro...

Jas.

And another mast completed...

Yesterday I completed the installation of another triple head mast.  This one protects the westbound mainline into Harrisburg.

Another two signal bridges to go, and a few more dwarfs and the signals are complete...

 Jas..

Jas the signals look great.

Jas the signals look great. Every time you post them we see your track work. It really flows nicely and I think that adds a great deal to the realism!