Ken Kaef

The Australian region of the NMRA is holding it's annual convention here in Adelaide South Australia on September 16 & 17.   http://www.nmra.org.au/Convention2017/convention17.html

Being a keen operator I have put my layout in for the convention operating sessions. I will be hosting two two hour sessions on Friday September 15. There are still operating spots available for convention attendees. It is not necessary to be a NMRA member to register for the convention.

Because I will be hosting operators especially from interstate and others who I do not know and who have not seen my layout before I decided to write some rules for operators. I am calling them "General rules" as per the prototype. Also I have uploaded an instructional video on You-tube. By e-mailing these to the visiting operators before the operating sessions my hope is to be able to keep the pre-session briefing short and to the point and there will not be too much to take in at one time.

I have attached the general rules and the video below.

 

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Some good stuff

Basic and not too complicated. Everything makes good sense as well such as tank or hazardous cars at least one car away from the engine or brake van < caboose> . I like the loaded cattle car rule as well. 

Someday I hope to model some signals but train order and timetable authority may be unfamiliar to some. I like that it makes the engineer/conductor responsible for their own actions. A timetable on the opposite side of the General Rules might be helpful.

A system map was a good idea too. Hope you don't mind if I borrow these ideas. 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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Ken Kaef

Time table & train orders

G'Day Neil, By all means please feel free to adopt any of my ideas. My train orders work more like track warrants. The history behind them is when the South Australian Railways hired William Webb formerly of the KATY and Rio Grand Southern as commissioner in 1920 he brought in this system of train orders which work like track warrants. Before then the SAR safe working system was "permissive block" which is almost identical to what Americans think of as Time table and train order working. Track warrants suit my small railway with it's short distances between stations better I think.

A time table on the back would be a good idea especially for the controller (dispatcher). Thanks. One day I will install proper semaphore train order signals. Tam Valley make some suitable. My main focus is on operating and I am still building structures and have a lot of weathering and detailing to do.

I visited your blog. Your layout looks like it will be excellent. I am always in awe of people who can do good work like you. By the way Hawaii is one of only two states in the US that I have visited the other being Alaska. I do not think that I will get the opportunity to visit again though.

Cheers Ken 

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Track Warrants

Thanks Ken. I'm not familiar with Track Warrants but it does sound like the short distances between stations is a common theme among us building railways. I too have been looking at semaphore signals but was not aware of Tam Valley making them. Have you seen NJ International versions or Banta Models laser cut semaphores? 

Hawaii is a special place and hard to leave but my parents are getting older and either my brother or I will have to figure out what to do sometime in the next few years. I have a sister that lives near them in Washington State but is committed to her job and much younger than is guys. I don't travel much but have always wanted to get "down under". 

The Oahu Railway had these on their mainline:

IMG_1459.PNG 

Maybe the NJ versions could be modified to add the additional light and number. 

IMG_1469.PNG 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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Ken Kaef

Signals

Track warrants actually called track authorities are in regular use here on the Pt Augusta to Kalgoolie line (Nularbor  the longest straight track in the world} and Pt Augusta to Darwin line. They  are sent to the crews by radio. I looked at the NJ international web site but they have no train order signals sometimes called train order boards. They are the signals that usually stand directly in front of the depot and have two arms on the same level at opposite sides of the signal tower. One arm for trains traveling in one direction and the other arm for trains traveling in the other direction. When the arm is vertical trains can pass through, arm at 45 degrees trains slow to pick up train orders on the fly, arm horisontal the train must stop to pick up it's orders. 

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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David Husman dave1905

 ".... he brought in this

Quote:

".... he brought in this system of train orders which work like track warrants. "

Just so everybody's clear, conventional North American train orders don't "work like track warrants".  They are two different concepts that both use a piece of paper to do the same thing.  However the concepts, how they are used and the rules very different.  Track warrants are more like "verbal CTC" than train orders.  Train orders are designed for a system where there is limited communication and no verbal communication between the dispatcher and the train crew, while track warrants rely on constant communication between the train crew and dispatcher.  Train orders give authority across the entire trip over a subdivision at every moment.  From the moment a train is cleared until it reaches the end of the subdivision, a train has all the authority it needs to operate across the entire subdivision and requires no further communication with the dispatcher.  The dispatcher handles exceptions, changes and additions. Track warrants give incremental authority and a train can  only move to the limits of its authority and no more.  It can't reach the end of its run without further authority from the dispatcher.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

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David Husman dave1905

Train order signals

Quote:

One arm for trains traveling in one direction and the other arm for trains traveling in the other direction. When the arm is vertical trains can pass through, arm at 45 degrees trains slow to pick up train orders on the fly, arm horisontal the train must stop to pick up it's orders.

That is true for many railroads.

There were three basic types of train order signals and two different modes of operation.  The above description is correct for some roads.  Clear/vertical/green meant there were no orders for the train, 45 degrees/yellow meant there were form 19 orders to pick up and horizontal/red meant there were form 31 orders to pick up.

On other roads there were just two positions, vertical/clear for no orders and horizontal/red for pick up orders.  If the signal was set to stop for orders and the orders were "hung", they could pick them up on the fly, if not they had to stop and get them.

A third option was to use the red/green format with an optional yellow that was a "calling on" signal.  That was used when the train order office was beyond the siding switches, the yellow signal was displayed to "call" the train to come up to the train order office to pick up orders.

Some roads used flashing train order lights, some used solid, some used upper quadrant, some used lower quadrant.

Anther variation was the default position of the signal.  On some roads the TO signal was kept clear until the dispatcher issued orders for that direction.  The alternative was the train order signal was kept at stop until the train blew for the station and then the signal would be cleared if there were no orders.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

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David Husman dave1905

Blades

Another variation is blade shape and color.  There were four basic shapes for the blade ends, pointed (shown in the pictures), fishtail, square and round.  The blades could also be red, yellow or white.  Depending on the shape/color combination a train crew could tell whether a signal was a block signal, interlocking signal, approach signal, flag stop signal or train order signal (depending on the variations the railroad used).

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

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Neil Erickson NeilEr

Tomar

Tomar has a few choices of train order signals in both upper and lower quadrant styles. None in O scale for me but I'll keep looking. There are a fee shapeways versions and etched brass models on eBay. 

Mark Dance posts here and has a couple neat videos of his train order boards in n-scale: 

I also emailed a guy from NZ that makes signals in HO but getting them to the US looks way more expensive than I would want to spend before trying to make my own. When he replies I'll repost here. 
 
Thanks for the nice comments btw, I have been doing so many side projects that the layout was neglected but I'm back! Watch for updates. 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

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David Husman dave1905

PDF summary

Your pdf rules summary is one of the more concise I've seen.  Very nice.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

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Ken Kaef

Track authorities

G'Day Dave,

You are right with that. That was what was introduced to the South Australian Railways in the 1920s by commissioner Webb even though they were called "Train Orders" rather than "Track Warrants". The train orders were telephoned to the stations from train control and trains had to either slow or stop to collect them. Train order stations had a train order signal in front of them. These days the "Track Authorities" are radioed to crews with all trains being able to hear all track authorities being sent. So train crews then know what is ahead and behind them. 

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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Ken Kaef

blades

Thanks Dave

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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Ken Kaef

rules

G'Day Dave,

      Thanks for your comments. After the convention operating sessions on September 15 I will post again letting others know how successful I was with the General Rules and how the sessions went.

 

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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DrJolS

PR and off-putting words

Very useful video. But here is a suggestion based on my very personal feelings.

Any time I find a post that is headed RULES or HYGIENE or SAFETY or some other such buzzword, I immediately feel that reading or watching such will be like taking a double dose of castor oil. If instead it is described as TIPS or HINTS or GUIDELINES I am more likely to want to pay attention to it.

Hoping your sessions are successful,

DrJolS

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Virginian and Lake Erie

Dr, I feel the same way about

Dr, I feel the same way about the word tutorial, every time I see that I think here is another pontification from someone who can't find his own backside with both hands and a hunting dog. It goes back to the days of computer tutorials that would spend a great deal of time to tell you what wwas already known and never cover the questions you had.

Ok rant over please go back to your normally schedueled train discussions.

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Ken Kaef

video

G'Day Dr JolS,

Glad you enjoyed the video any way and thanks for your wishes.

Cheers

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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Ken Kaef

club

G'Day Rob,

Thanks for the comment. I Have enjoyed looking at the ETMRC web site. The club I belong to does not have a web site but I have posted videos of it on You-Tube.

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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David Husman dave1905

Depends

Quote:

Any time I find a post that is headed RULES or HYGIENE or SAFETY or some other such buzzword, I immediately feel that reading or watching such will be like taking a double dose of castor oil. If instead it is described as TIPS or HINTS or GUIDELINES I am more likely to want to pay attention to it.

Generally rules have to be followed or things don't work right.  Tips or guidelines are just suggestions or shortcuts. Rules are mandatory, tips are optional. 

I will read rules before I read guidelines or tips.

Since railroads definitely have rules, calling the same thing on a model railroad "rules" is just being consistent.

Regardless of what they are called, the challenge is to get anybody to read them in the first place, let alone follow them.  Being able to summarize them into a single page is good because most people will take the time to read a single page.  I know a lot of people put out several page long information packets before Op Sessions.  I doubt they are fully read or understood.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

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Ken Kaef

Breif

G'Day Dave,

                    I think that paper work for model railways should be as brief as possible so as not to get operators bogged down under reams of paper. That being said to have an enjoyable and free flowing operating session we need some type of guide lines  and system other wise our trains wil get bogged down. 

               My hope is these few rules will help the visiting operators during the operating sessions during our convention in September. I hope that they will make more sense once they see the layout. 

                At the club I belong to even though we are not up to the stage of having operating sessions, that is our ultimate goal, we do have a few basic rules for running nights. The large layout has some double track but it is mainly single tracked. One rule is for right hand running. Even on the double track some members forget and run on the left. Another rule that some members find hard to grasp is that when running trains, no matter where you are on the layout, you are always facing north so west is toward your left east to your right. Our convention is that eastbound trains are superior to westbound and therefore hold the main in crossing loops while westbounds must take the passing siding and allow eastbounds to pass.

By and large this system does work and we do enjoy running our trains.

Cheers 

Ken 

Kanunda and Emu Flat Railway   https://kaefken.wordpress.com/about/

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