View source reveals not the way it was done

Linking to the download links might (I'm not sure) be legal, and in fact probably would be if the pages are crawlable, since then it is just an address, just like Google and everyone else stores.  The blatant violation of copyright law is that they have copied Joe's images to their own website - the jpegs themselves of the issue cover.  That is most definitely a copyright violation.  That said, I'm guessing (hoping?) the intent probably isn't to be ripping Joe off.  Maybe there is a way to accomplish the beginner site's goals while directing traffic to Joe.  That would be the idea solution.  Hopefully something will get worked out.  But if not then the copied images shouldn't be there, because use of them in that manner in violation of copyright also blurs the distinction of whose magazine it is.  Considering they don't even get the name of the magazine right in the title, I'd say it is a knowledge issue.

Paying for free content

Entire PDFs copied!

It's worse than I thought.  The entire copies of the PDFs have been copied to their site and then made available there!  

There was even a discussion there a couple months back complaining about inability to download sometimes:

http://beginnersmodeltrains.com/model-railroad-magazine-august-2013-issue-2/

That could turn people off to the magazine who:

1) Think it belongs to that site and

2) Think it isn't worth trying to get to download.

Ok. At this point, I no longer think this is just a low knowledge individual who wants to help folks.  In my opinion it is definitely stealing and in a way that I think could be detrimental to MRH.

-Ed

Stuff from others as well

Taking a quick look around the site, there is also a trackplan from MR's database and a booklet from WGH.  Probably other things as well.

Did not see any credit or reference posted.  But they didn't edit out the identifying info/logos in their copied material.

Paul

Whole MRH Magazine articles copied!!!

And it gets even worse.  Here is an entire article lifted from the Mar/Apr 2010 issue of MRH.

http://beginnersmodeltrains.com/leaving-las-vegas-ho-scale-representation-of-the-caliente-sub-into-a-9-x-11-foot-spare-bedroom/

It says at the bottom "Sourced from  MHRMAG.COM", but copying articles and republishing them on your own site is not legal just because you says where you copied it from.  Unless Joe gave explicit permission to them for doing so, which I would think would have meant the attribution would have not been misspelled as well, then this is really bad.

I do hope we hear something from Joe on it, as this just is not right.

-Ed

Theres more from MRH...

check out "quick and easy hopper loads", no mention of the author but I'm sure I've read this article before by Charlie Comstock.

See our copyright

"uptick in our growth since he starting posting our content."

so who would be reading that site instead of MRH ? ....DaveB

You are very wise, Grasshopper!

Joe,

Great idea!  I've got the MRH link in the first page of my website and I'm approaching a quarter million page views on my site so it can't be all bad.

That said - Hey all of you modelers that have "outside" blogs and websites for your railroad - do you have a link on your blog / site for MRH?  If not please consider adding it to help drive traffic and support MRH.

One thing we will start doing ...

Mispelled attributions and entire PDFs?

Glad to know it is not without at least tacit approval, but I would think the attributions required ought to be clearer and ensure that readers know it is not their magazine, and at least be spelled right.  I'm also surprised you are ok with them wholesale copying down the PDFs onto their own site and letting people download from there, again without sufficient attribution for it to be obvious it is not their content, and particularly in light of the download complaints they had.  At the very least, you want to ensure clarity with regards to ownership of your trademark.  Failure to enforce a trademark can cause it over time to be lost.

But, ultimately, if all of this is ok with you, then that's all that matters.  (Though if it were me, I would have the jpeg and magazine download references use the MRH URLs rather than having the copied files sitting at their site.  As it stands, if I was not familiar with MRH already, and not already a user of this site, then encountering that site first would cause me to think MRH was a publication of theirs.)

-Ed

Its about the advertisers...

Seems to me that the more links to MRH that are out there, the more the advertisements are going to be seen.  

More viewers can equal higher rates

But only if you can document the traffic level.  It's not how many times they are seen.  It's how many times you can document that they were likely to have been seen.  For a magazine, it's readership levels, which online is going to relate to downloads.  That's another reason for the downloads to use MRH links and not copies of the files on another site, unless the other site is also providing back the documentation of their download stats. Imagine several sites doing that.  The value of the available inventory of advertising slots could be undercut.

My first advertising based web business was between 1995-1997.  Knowing your traffic to base advertising rates on is pretty valuable.

More work for Joe

Sorry Joe I didn't intend to create more work for you!

Thank you for the clarification on the issue.

 I have gone back and roamed the Beginners Model Trains site and have a few suggestions/complaints about the site.

 Images of the cover of MRH magazine are cropped not showing the entire cover with the full title of the magazine and the text does not include any mention of MRH ( listed as "Model Railroad Magazine" ) as is done with "The Worlds Greatest Hobby" or Kalmbach publications. 

 several of the reposted articles have had links inserted, in the middle of the article, to commercial sales sites.

Yes I realize these are nit picking but WE love our MRH!

Copyright Violation

I post once again:

Hi, Dan from http://beginnersmodeltrains.com. It is and never has been my intention to violate any copyright.  Joe Fugate was in contact with me and you can view the copyright instructions on the site at http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/copyright

I am an avid supported of MHRMAG, and don't see why it should not be distributed further.  It can only help the subscription base.

If you want me to discontinue I have no issue whatsoever even if sanctioned by Joe.

I will even put banners before and after every publication if you want.

Regards

Dan

admin@beginnersmodeltrains.com

Copyright Violation

Hi Joe

Dan here.  I have no problem removing all the content relating to MRHMAG.  As discussed, I have put links back to your site. 

I can only see it as beneficial for your publication.  I have even recommended hobbyists to sign up with your subscription.

If you like I won't load the content onto the site, but rather provide a link back to your website for the download?  I can even promote your site directly on my front page?

Anyway, not trying to cause problems, let me know your thoughts and WELL DONE on AN EXCELLENT MAGAZINE. I wonder if others realize that this hobby could die out due to the current obsession with technology by younger people.  This hobby averts moral decay and my purpose is to promote it.  If there are those that don't want that then maybe they need to open their eyes.

Dan

I think the only two issues I see from it are that you don't reference the proper magazine name in at least one spot, calling it Model Railroad Magazine instead of Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine.  I see also now you made the source links more explicit, which is a good thing.  The only other thing is if you do host copies on your site and people do have download issues because you don't have the available bandwidth, it can look bad for you and MRH, so linking back to the actual documents here might be less headache for you with support issues (and cost over-runs on bandwidth usage).

I understand some concerns that have been voiced, but Joe has made this a Creative Commons license from the beginning, so there isn't a problem from doing what you are doing as long as you are clearly including the links back here and calling the magazine its proper name.

At least that's my two cents from an unaffected third party.

Link back to original documents

Hi,

I will make the necessary changes on the download links.

Sorry, as I said never meant any harm.  If I can put a the banner for MRHMAG on my site please let me know (don't want to enfringe).

Thanks & Apologies to all involved.  Lesson learnt......

Regards

Dan

http://beginnersmodeltrains.com 

Spreading the word - banners, et al

For those that have not yet seen it, there is help for we loyal members in spreading the word. Simple read this post in the magazine help section for "spreading the word":

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/spread_the_word

To Dan from Beginners Model Trains........

I was very impressed with your whole presentation and articles and hope you will continue despite some negative comments from our "Board of Directors" (get it?).  As it appears you have not broken any laws or "stolen" stuff from people "may the force be with you".  I'm not exactly a beginner but I got a few ideas from your issues.  I especially liked the one on the smoke with cotton trick.  It's not new and I'd seen it done years ago for photos, but I have never seen it done so convincingly well and will try experimenting a bit.

I think you are doing a great service to our hobby and I thank you for that.

Peter

Dan, I'm good

Dan:

I'm good with everything you're doing as we have discussed before. You've been very accommodating to any and all change requests to comply with our wishes.

The suggestions some of the guys list here are good, but to me they're just some tweaks.

I truly appreciate you reposting our content, actually, Dan. As you say, it just helps us all.

The one concern I do have is putting the magazine on your site for download. Philosophically, I don't have a problem with that, but technically it does make tracking our circulation a lot harder. If you send people to the landing page for the issue on here, then we will have a record of the download / access, which will give us more complete numbers on readership.

You're a web-savvy enough guy to understand the tracking part, I'm sure. Post a clickable cover image on your site, but have it go back to the landing page here, and I think we're golden! For example, here's how the October issue could work:

MODEL RAILROAD HOBBYIST MAGAZINE

Click the cover to read the October issue.

Source: mrhmag.com

An Apology to Dan at Beginners Model Trains

Dan

  I hope you will accept my apology for stirring up a hornets nest that may have caused you undo stress.

With Joe clarifying  the situation my later post was only intended to be constructive not inflammatory

 I am sorry for the resulting posts that involved innuendo and accusations.

Now that  your site has been "declared" legit I intend to look in more frequently and see some of  the other tid bits of knowledge you have to offer.

 again I hope you will accept my apology.

 Respectfully, 

Mark " Provisobound " Wass

Thanks Joe. I will implement

Thanks Joe. I will implement your suggestion it does make complete sense.

Thanks again for your dedication to the hobby.  I hope I can help increase your circulation further.

All the best....

Dan.

No problem Mark.  No

No problem Mark.  No offence.  It is good that people challenge these things.  Copyright violation is a massive problem on the web. 

Cheers, gotta do some modelling....