jwhitten

*** This is an off-topic question about gluing ***

I know this isn't technically train -related but my kid has a toy car, one of those large plastic tonka police car/trucks, that he absolutely loves and he's broken the back wheel off the axle. I tried gluing it back together with epoxy cement but it was only a few days before he broke it again... is there anything else I might try to fix this or is it history ?

Thanks

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in its final days of steam. Heavy patronage by the Pennsy and Norfolk & Western. Coal, sand/gravel/minerals, wood, coke, light industry, finished goods, dairy, mail and light passenger service. Interchanges with the PRR, N&W, WM and Montour.
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numbersmgr

Not a glue expert, but

Hi John

I'm not a glue expert, but it seems like you will need to reinforce the parts somehow.  Can you drill a hole into each end of the parts where they mate and insert a small metal rod - like rebar in real life - then glue the pieces back together.  It would be a pain trying to align matching holes in two separate pieces, but maybe they don't have to be perfect.  Alternately, can you glue a piece of metal tubing over the break (after glueing the plastic)?

I have tried gluing things like this and they usually just break again unless I can reinforce them somehow.

No matter what you do, this area will always be a weak spot, so your son will have to learn to be easier on this vehicle. 

Good luck

Jim Dixon    MRM 1040

A great pleasure in life is doing what others said you were not capable of doing!   

Reply 0
LKandO

Be a flamer

This going to sound goofy but it is based on sound industrial practice. Pass the blue flame from a propane torch across the plastic to be glued and then immediately apply the glue. Don't melt the plastic, just quickly pass the flame across it a few times.

The process is called flaming. It temporarily oxidizes the the plastic creating a reactive surface on what otherwise is a totally non-reactive surface. Glues cannot stick well to non-reactive surfaces.

Flaming is an industrial method for printing on polyethylene and polypropylene, two of the least surface reactive plastics in common use and also very common plastics for kid's toys. Printing on milk jugs is an example of industry using flaming to get adhesion to plastic. Nitty gritty details here.

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
nsparent.png 

Reply 0
DKRickman

More train related than you think.

Don't worry about posting the question here.  The specific subject may not be train related, but the general issue definitely is.  I use these techniques to modify and repair parts all the time.

Sometimes a replacement is the best option.  However, if repair is the desirable route, I agree that you need to reinforce the joint somehow.  Most glues are not all that strong on their own, so you'll want to add something mechanical to secure the joint.

First of all, can you devise a purely mechanical means of holding the broken part together while keeping it functional?  For example, of there are reinforcing ribs which run across the break, perhaps you can drill holes in some and use wire, string, or cable ties to hold them together?  Or, you may be able to add a filler block with screws from the outside (flat head and countersunk to avoid any protrusions).  Once you do that, then you can add a good two part epoxy (I'm fond of J.B.Weld) to make sure the joint is solid and secure.

If you cannot do that, can you add a brace which spans the joint, either internally (drill holes and insert brass rods) or externally (glue plastic or metal plates/strips across the joint)?  That will go a long way toward making the joint stronger, sometimes as good as new.

Finally, take time to treat the surfaces which the glue will touch.  Rough them up.  If possible drill holes through them.  Imagine that the glue will not bond to the plastic at all, but will only serve as a free-form filler (not true, probably, but useful as a worst-case thought experiment).  If you can make it mechanically interlock with the parts in some meaningful way, the joint will be stronger and less likely to fail again.  And of course, surgical cleanliness will help as well, as a lot of plastics are difficult to bond to at the best of times, and kids toys collect dirt on interesting places.

Ken Rickman

Danville & Western HO modeler and web historian

http://southern-railway.railfan.net/dw/

Reply 0
DKRickman

Hot tip!

Quote:

Pass the blue flame from a propane torch across the plastic to be glued and then immediately apply the glue. Don't melt the plastic, just quickly pass the flame across it a few times.

Would that work for Delrin trucks and handrails as well?  How immediate is immediate in this case?  A few minutes?  A few seconds?

Ken Rickman

Danville & Western HO modeler and web historian

http://southern-railway.railfan.net/dw/

Reply 0
LKandO

Like, right now

Immediate is immediate. Less time = better result. Keep in mind the propane torch method is a homespun way to go about it. You will get varying degrees of success each time. Industrial processes are very tightly controlled to deliver consistent results. The temperature and makeup of the flame is really important. I suggested propane torch because it is likely the only hot flame source people are likely to have.

Can't speak directly to Delrin. I see no reason why you wouldn't get at least a marginal improvement. Trouble with the plastics world is there is virtually no such thing as a "pure" plastic meaning there are even fewer "definitely will work" answers. All plastics are blends to one degree or another either deliberately or process induced. If for no other reason, just the impurities in the plastic can sometimes wreak havoc on adhesion results. Testing on a case-by-case basis is the only definitive answer when it comes to plastics.

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
nsparent.png 

Reply 0
Joe Valentine

Glue

Hi John, there is a product available to glue Delrin, available through Micro Mark and perhaps a different one from Drmikesglue.com. I met Mike at the Allentown Pa train show last fall where he demonstrated his product and several others he had there. He let me use it and I found it quite remarkable...enough so that I purchased a bottle from him....he also had filler to add to the glue and filled in a hole that was too large....he then re drilled the hole to the a smaller size...very solid and great hold on the screw he then inserted....at any rate what else glues delrin? Check out the web site....ps I have no connection to Mike other than being a customer...Joe

Reply 0
Crusty Old Shellback

Glueing this to that

Here's a website that I found some time ago that may be of help in this instance and many others.

 

http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this=this&that=that

My arms got too short so I've switched to G scale. Old steam and early diesel are my choice of loco. Scratch built is better.

Reply 0
jwhitten

Wow, lots of good info.

Wow, lots of good info. Thanks for all the replies. I didn't do anything to reinforce the joints when I glued it back together . The parts were very small and that would have been difficult to do. I did figure it wouldn't last long... guess I was right about that. I didn't think of gluing another shaft over the repaired portion-- that's a great idea and I'll have to remember & try that. Also the info about the flame too, didn't know that either but it's very interesting to know it. Don't think it would work easily in this case due to the proximity of the car body, would probably melt that before I could maneuver it close enough to the wheel. And thanks for the link to the gluing website!! This has been a highly informative post!

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in its final days of steam. Heavy patronage by the Pennsy and Norfolk & Western. Coal, sand/gravel/minerals, wood, coke, light industry, finished goods, dairy, mail and light passenger service. Interchanges with the PRR, N&W, WM and Montour.
Reply 0
CM Auditor

Gluing, Leading and Hand Holding!

Folks,

This thread is one of the reasons MRH is way ahead of the competitors.  Joe wrote his editorial and inquired what the readership wanted, then John asks a simple question to a problem he is having problems.  The answers come up with suggestions that I know in my fifty years of modeling are totally new to me and I now have solutions added to my "skill bucket." 

This is what I am looking for as I dive into the hobby.

Thanks to all and Joe and the staff have created a wonderful community here.

CM Auditor

Tom VanWormer

Monument CO

Colorado City Yard Limits 1895

Reply 0
Ken Glover kfglover

@CM Auditor

EXACTLY! I agree 100%!

Ken Glover,

HO, Digitrax, Soundtraxx PTB-100, JMRI (LocoBuffer-USB), ProtoThrottle (WiThrottle server)

View My Blog

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