You're already off to a good start.

This is a great place to start.  What you'll find here are a lot of really helpful folks with years of experience.  The big trick is to listen.  I'm a beginner myself and I'm glad I found this site.

These are questions that involve preferences...

These are questions that involve preferences so what is right for someone else may or may not be right for you. But obtaining the answers involves learning and being willing to learn what is involved and no one can provide you with a shortcut to that. At best they can explain what the alternatives are and how they answered the questions for themselves. You are going to have to do it for yourself but you might choose do it the same way or differently based on your knowledge, abilties and what you can afford. And you will find that your abilities will grow and evolve over time so what may be right for you today may not be right for you in the long run.

Irv

choosing a layout

While you are waiting for inspiration, go to Amazon and get some books.  I suggest Track Planning for Realistic Operation but there are many others which can be recommended.  These books are often out of print but Amazon has access to used book dealers and you can often get a new copy for just a few dollars. I got a new copy of this one for ten dollars.  Reading these and looking at the track plans and the space required will help you decide on your ideal layout.

Art Armstrong (Artarms)

In The Beginning Was The.......

Whoaaaa... steady up there.....

In the beginning was the armchair. And the armchair was good.

On the arm of the armchair was paper and pencil. And sharpener. And Eraser. And these were good.

On the coffee table was the wine. And it was red wine. And it was good. Although it was a coffee table it carried wine and not coffee. But it was still good.

The man sat in the armchair. He dreamed. He dreamed a dream of trains. And it was a good dream. And when he did not dream, he sipped. And the more he sipped the better he dreamt his dreams.

The man saw a vision. And it was a good vision. The vision was of his favorite train, in his favorite location.

No one else saw this vision; But Lo, it was a good vision.

He drew a picture of his vision.

He scrunched up the picture, and Lo, he drew another one. and it was good.

And from this a world emerged. and it was a good world.

And the less he worried the better the world became.

Amen

Eric

Derby, UK

What got you interested in trains?

SR:

Go back to what got you interested in trains in the first place. At the heart of that experience will be some key hot buttons that may give you the clue to what would be the most satisfying in the hobby.

Also, if you just don't know yet what you like, you need to get some experience in the hobby. Join a modular group and build a couple modules. Make one totally freelanced and the other absolutely prototype faithful. Then step back and evaluate your experience - which one was the most engaging?

Also if you can, find some layouts in your region that have regular operating sessions. If you don't know of any such layouts, join the NMRA OPs Special Interest Group and go run trains on a few layouts.

Just sitting around playing mind games with the hobby is no match for real experience. Unfortunately, there is no one right way to do the hobby that's the best for everyone, so we can't make those decisions for you. DOING the hobby is how you figure out what you want to do for that totally satisfying "dream layout". Best not to rush things, but to do some small pilot projects to get your feet wet first. The more things you can experiment with the better on those pilot projects.

If you haven't already, read the Reverse Running column in MRH Issue 1 on "chainsaw railroads". That should help you get past your analysis paralysis.

One other comment ...

SR:

One other comment - if you're approaching this hobby with the idea of avoiding mistakes, then I would say you are going about it wrong.

It's the MISTAKES that mean you're gaining experience and learning. Better is to PLAN TO MAKE MISTAKES (THE MORE MISTAKES, THE BETTER) and to do a small pilot project or two on which to do most of this learning.

If you think you're going to find all the answers just from up front analysis and asking questions, then you don't really understand this is a hobby that you DO, not just think about doing.

Looking for a track planning service

Hi all, After visiting the O scale layouts this weekend that were open as part of the midwest o scale show, I have just amitted to myself that life is short and I do not learn as fast as I did in my younger days. So I'm looking for the new "John Armstrong" track planning service. I bought the 3rd planit software, but just do not want to spend the time needed to learn it. I want to be building, not planning! Any thoughts? Thanks in advance. Bruce -

Check out the Layout Vision ad in MRH issue 1

Click on the Layout Vision ad in MRH Issue 1.

I consider Byron Henderson to have inherited most of John Armstrong's mantle, and we're thrilled to have another Byron track plan in issue 2, due out April 11th ...

More Info About My Analysis Paralysis

Joe and others...thanks so much for your thoughts.  A bit more info about me and where I am in the progression of my model train iinterests and experience may provide insight...

I have been a model railtroad hobbiest on-and-off most of my life (I'm 46).  In my teens and 20's I had built an operating layout with scenery (never completely sceniked--the plywood jungle existed on about 1/2 of it!).  I enjoyed all aspects of the hobby...model building and detailing, painting, wiring, running trains, sculpting scenery...literally everything!  I knew very little about the "real world" of railroading--I was the true freelancer, building what I thought was "right."  Marriage and career then took over.

I recently returned to the hobby after about 15 years off after moving around the country with my family and career.  Eighteen months ago, I decided (my supportive wife suggested) I needed some diversions to ease workplace pressures.  Wow!  What a change in 15 years!  I dove in...reading magazines, going on-line, visiting hobby shops and mrr shows, etc...gathering info in an effort to get re-started on my "empire."  My research pile has grown over the past year, along a desire to be more "prototypical" in my approach--maybe that comes with age?  DCC, ready-to-run cars and locos, new manufacturers, "pre-orders," and a growing emphasis on "prototype modeling" was evident.  I gathered books (Tony Koester's Realistic Model Railroad Design, Operations, and Building Blocks among others).  I also have read books on new scenery techniques (foam!), DCC, and others.  I now have a good basic understanding of DCC, have a test track wired, and have installed decoders and sound in some older locos with success.  I have also been gathering "stuff" (lots of stuff) with the incorrect assumption clarity for a plan of attack would insue.   I am an experienced lone-wolf model railroader. What I shoud have asked the readers is:

"Is there a logical progression of decisions that help shape a plan to construct a realistic, prototypical model railroad?"  I think my business accumen is getting in the way...I am trained to do research, build a plan, test the plan, develop expected results...THEN implement!  Maybe I need to get back to just digging in and see what happens...

start small

I have always found it easier to START SMALL. Don't bite off more than you can chew. As you learn new tricks, techniques and methods, you will find them easier to add them to your layout, rather than erase your mistakes. I also know that being an "armchair modeler" myself, I spent many hours reading material. So don't be afraid to keep on reading. The more knowledge you have, the better off you are.

Lastly, don't be intimidated by those layouts you see in magazines. Take your time and ENJOY this hobby. As long as you are HAPPY, that's all that counts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although I am new to this website, I can tell you that there are a bunch of very helpful people here and they can answer or help you with just about any problem you may have. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There is no such thing as a stupid question.

Welcome to the hobby!

Analysis Paralysis

You are correct. You need to jump in and do something instead of analyzing this to death. While you're 46 , you should rewalize that you can keep analyzing this until you're 66 and still not have done a thing and none of us lives forever. So find an easy section and start there and build on that.

You can set up a list of what you want to have on your layout and then divide into nice to have and must haves. You also need to consider the both the space available and the time you have available. But I think you'll find that once you have some track down and trains running on those tracks that you'll find was to add to what you've already created that can be truly interesting and possible even innovative.

Irv

Do Enough Planning and You'd Never Need to Build it.

Here's how my head works. A few mental images of places that have inspired me, and a few images of the train that I found there. This is a UK view normally, but sometimes stretches to Western Europe. So despite what books people have written, what "Names" have cast their runes, and what is on the market I know roughly what my next layout will look like.

I'm not sure I can scientifically prove it but it seems on this side of the pond layouts are smaller, get finished, and are recycled more often than on yon' side of pond. So I don't put all my eggs in the one basket of a basement railroad empire and keep a few ideas for the layout after next.

All this means is that I know I already have the answer as to my next layout. Now, I'm fairly sure if you just expore your memories of what has inspired you in the past and ignore the rest of our self collected physical and mental clutter you'll see the picture that you're after. Once you've made that discovery all the other bits like size, space, scale, cost, time etc etc will fall into their respective places.

So what are your favorite railroad scenes? Why?

That should get the journey going.

Happy Modelling, Happy Muddling. Have Fun.

Eric

Derby, UK.

Any other modelers in your area?

Another thing that would be helpful is for you to get connected. You may fancy yourself a lone wolf - but if there's a hobby shop nearby, drop in and ask who some local modelers are who host op sessions. Or join the OPs SIG - one service they offer is connecting you up with nearby modelers who host serious op sessions.

You may have been in the hobby since the age of the dinosaurs - but if you want to build a layout to operate and you don't have much operating experience under your belt, you won't know what you really like?

Once you know what you like, designing that dream pike can become easier.

For instance, how well do you like switching? Or running out on the road? Helper operations? Yard operations? Passenger trains? You prefer steam or diesel?

Trouble is, without operating experience, "all of it" or "I don't know" is often the answer.

If you insist on being a lone wolf, then resign yourself to the fact it's going to take some time to figure it out all on your own - because you should then plan on building a couple modules as a pilot project designed to figure out what you like. Also plan on throwing those modules away once you've completed your experiments because they were simply to bring things into better focus.

Try different track laying techniques, different scenery techniques, build some different structure kits, scratchbuild a few structures, try out a steamer or two and a diesel or two. Pick a starter DCC system and experiment with DCC. Get yourself a sound loco and play with that. Try operating with car cards and also try a switch list. Experiment with Kadee couplers and Sergent couplers.

If you are just a bit industrious, take photos along the way and write about your findings. Send the articles to us and we'll pay you for them (assuming we accept them), which will help underwrite your hobby experiments.

Once you figure out what you like and don't like, then sell off the stuff that interests you less on eBay and start planning something more focused and based on actual experience of what's most satisfying.

I'm not sure, but I would bet at least 50% of the so-called model railroaders who are online are mostly "armchair" modelers who spend a lot of cycles thinking about modeling various things - but aren't really doing any serious modeling.

Time to get off the computer and go do some model railroading! Who cares if it's a chainsaw railroad, at least you're actually DOING the hobby instead of just thinking about it. Learning what you like with the plans to throw it all away later and start over better is great - there's nothing wrong with that. It's a hobby after all, and the learning can be lots of fun too!

The Arm Chair Syndrome...

Joe,

You are probably right that nearly half the modelers online are not actively modeling.

That has described my situation during different stages of my life as a lover of things rail related.  I did manage to actively participate in the hobby a few times though and I am on my way once again after having been stuck in my chair for well over a year obsessing over a plan for my space.

My space has grown larger since I began to plan and we abandoned the 4 X 8 "starting small" layout I inititially started to build in favor of something that wraps around my space, is much more complicated and much larger in scope.  Something for the whole family.

The vast sweeping changes in my planning brought sweeping changes to my space.  Once I get the space re-modeled I can begin mounting the wall brackets and building the benchwork to support my empire.

Meanwhile, other things get in the way of working on the room...MRH for one, LOL!

Indeed I believe prototype operations come to many later in life.  When I started I just wanted to play with trains!  I could have cared less if my layout was operable or not!

As a young man, I became interested in modeling very realistic scenes.  And managed to build a layout that almost made it to having scenery everywhere before life interupted me.

These days, I still want to play with trains but I want to run them through a realistic scene, with some degree of realistic operation.  I'm not all the way there yet but this layout is just another stepping stone anyway.  As much as I did want to have the best plan possible for this layout, at the same time, I know this is not the last layout I will build.  The important thing is to build it.

Armchair Modeling

< I'm not sure, but I would bet at least 50% of the so-called model railroaders who are online are mostly "armchair" modelers who spend a lot of cycles thinking about modeling various things - but aren't really doing any serious modeling.>

That's not a bad thing when one doesn't have the time, money or space for a layout, Joes. And it's far better than dwelling over what you don't have and accomplishing exactly zero. After all thinking really is cheap as it costs nothing to do it. I suspect that many of us have gone through this stage at least once.

Irv

Armchair modeling is fine

Armchair modeling is fine ... not saying it's "bad". I've certainly done my share of it.

But neither is getting out of the armchair an all or nothing thing. Many modeling projects don't cost all that much, and I believe many armchair modelers aren't modeling for fear of making mistakes more than any other reason.

Nothing says you have to start big. Go get yourself one piece of flex track, go home and mount it on a scrap of board and build a scene. Pay as you go - for $20 you can get a bit of ballast, a small bag of plaster, and a little ground foam, pick up a small bottle of white glue - and have yourself a blast for a week or two's worth of evenings.

Next pay day, get yourself a couple sheets of Evergreen styrene and get some Tester's styrene cement (the runny stuff in the black bottle) and scratchbuild a tool shed or some small structure. And so on.

For about $20 a pay period, you can have yourself a good ol' time doing some real model railroading and making lots of mistakes!

And ,,,

And I would also say doing some real hands-on modeling will enhance your armchair time.

Time spent online I consider to fall in the armchair category - it's now a tech-enabled armchair!

Once you try your hand at something, all of a sudden questions you never thought of asking come flooding in,  articles and posts on doing that task suddenly can be reread with new eyes. How-to content that didn't mean much before suddenly becomes very relevant and useful.

If you come on here and tell us about your efforts (post pictures even, we LIKE pictures) then the discussion will jump to a complete new level of relevancy and interest - because now it's the real deal and much less abstract.

Digging in

"Maybe I need to get back to just digging in and see what happens..." My honest opinion there is a definate yes. I have a friend who while very knowledgable on prototypes, knowing exactly where Sante Fe runs and that the Frisco used to run by here. Has endless books and videos. Not too mention bookshelves of fine locos and rolling stock. He has yet to even start his benchwork, and that's after years of "being in the hobby". While it is great to have a plan and to know about the prototypes, digging right in and having a go at is the only way to get started. I started out with a train set from life like and limited track. I set it up on two closet doors to get a feel for it, then I got a piece of plywood on the kitchen table. I redone that layout 3 or 4 times before I started experimenting with scenery. Now I finally figured out I want to run the Frisco lines, at least part of it anyway, and my goals have become more focussed. But I believe if I was to set down and try to figure out what prototype I wanted to model and the era and the and the and the....... I would never have gotten there. Most all track and things are reuseable, so use them till you think you got it figured out and then go from there.

Remember, if you buy anything you later decide you daon't like, somebody will. I've never had a problem of selling something mrr on e-bay and getting a good price for it.

I hope this helps to motivate you  to get out of the analytical and jump in with something small at first, and if that works out add on to it. If it don't work out learn from that tear it all up and go again. It's kept it pretty interesting for me so far.

Perhaps my comments may be

Perhaps my comments may be helpful since I am in roughly the same position and am asking myself a number of the same questions. After a 16 year hiatus building up my own business, I am also returning to model railroading as a way to de-stress and work with my hands as well as my brain again.

The first thing I did was dig out my old n scale equipment and lube and tune it up. This allowed me to re-experience the excitement of running my engines (on one straight piece of flex track) and to start to reconnect with my hobby. I then proceeded through each freight car and made sure they were properly weighted and in good running order. The tactile sensation of handling each piece brought back many fond memories.

Since I don't know the answers to the big questions, I have decided to start off with a series of 'test' pieces to try different ideas and keep or discard ideas as I go along. I am in the process of building a couple of shelf-sized modules (16 by 48 inches - 40 x 122 cm) consisting of 1/4" (0.6cm) plywood covered in 2" (5.1cm) of rigid foam.

Since I don't have the room for a permanent layout, I plan on creating a series of layout dominoes (to use Dave Barrow's word) that I can hang as a vertical stack on the wall using traditional shelving brackets. The choice of dimensions was a trade-off between what is readily available at my lumber yard and what I felt I could handle by myself. The idea is along the lines of FreeMoN modules but ones that will sit on a table instead of on their own legs. If I maintain a standard for the connection between these modules, I can mix and match them in any order that suits me. I can always incorporate these modules into a bigger layout when my situation changes.

The nice thing about these dominoes is that I don't have too much invested in each one so I can afford to try stuff out and if it doesn't work, I simply have to salvage what pieces I want and scrape off the rigid foam and I am ready to try something else. For me, keeping things small also means that I will be more likely to finish each piece. Previously, I remember being daunted by the shear size of all the plywood that needed to be covered.

Some of the ideas I am hoping to try out are:

• point-to-point vs. continuous running
• yard switching vs. industry switching along a route vs. running long through trains
• passenger or freight or both
• car cards and waybill operation
• DC vs DCC
• single vs double track running
• commercial vs hand-laid track
• prototype vs freelance

Undoubtedly some of these ideas will work and some will not but I will certainly learn more about my preferences along the way. Once I have these fundamentals answered I feel that I will be better prepared to begin searching for a prototype or to design the freelance layout of my dreams.

You know, the best advice

You know, the best advice some times is so very simple:

Unplug yourself from the Internet Help universe and just go make something.  even better, make something you like - a small scene, a loop of track, a single spur with a passing siding, a simple three switch switching layout - just draw it out, frame it up, grab the flex track and go make it!!!

You will be far more impowered by what you learn and by knowing what you CAN do that your next effort will be a small step fot model railroading but a giant leap for your railroad habit.

Cheap atlas switches, simple straight DC, no crazy electronics, just a sraight and simple...

This really is how my apartment layouts started.  I had 2'x4', so I imagined a scene and I created it.  Now I am beyond that scene and I know I can make different better scenes later - but that is another time!!!

Hello "sreiss" I think you

Hello "sreiss" I think you will find Benny's advice is RIGHT ON. my only suggestion is find a corner in the room and build and connect two 2 foot wide by 4 foot long tables that end you up with a 4 foot long side and a 6 foot long side corner unit . this little corner unit is big enough to get you started with the ability to grow in any way you can possibly think of. The best thing is your started. I was having the exact same problem your having and that's what I did. now I'm on my way in fact after starting the 2 X 4 by 2 X 6 corner unit and laying some track I was able to draw up my main first level of my RR and I still have the option to keep it as a single level pike or expand to another room or add more levels. for now I'm doing a small yard in HO and can go anywhere from there. also at this size you can start in DC and then deside if you want DCC or go directly to DCC.

GOOD LUCK

Dan

Chainsaw it

Chainsaw layouts (if you're not clear on that term, see the first issue of MRH) are a great way to get your feet wet. I consider myself very new to this hobby, and still very much in the learning stages. The advice you've been given so far is great. The one thing I'd like to add is that this is not an inexpensive hobby, but there is real value in ones you can build, learn from, tear down, and repeat.

In my own personal experience, I started as Benny mentioned, with a used DC power pack, used snap track, and a couple of overpriced Atlas switches. That migrated to a 4x8 layout with flex track and peco switches, and both DC and DCC equipped locos. I am now  building one side of double deck layout to experiment with benchwork, wireing, etc. This latest creation will include handlayed track and switches (using Fast Tracks jigs). I've spent money on these that cannot be reclaimed, but I consider them to be a valuable investment from an educational standpoint.

One piece of great advice I received early on in this Forum was to join the Operations Special Interest Group. I did, met some other hobbyists, and now very much look forward to the bi-weekly operating sessions. Not only are they a ton of fun, but I find myself looking again and again at my "final" track plan with a more experience and critical eye.  If you can find someone in your area, I'd strongly recommend it to you as well.

Sounds like you need to do

Sounds like you need to do some reading..

It might be worth your while to find some relatively recent books which take a layout from start to finish. While the methods used may or may not be the best ones for you to use, seeing a layout progress from soup to nuts can really help one to understand the scope of work required.

In addition to some "soup to nuts" books, I consider some essential reading to be:

Track Planning For Realistic Operation, John Armstrong

Realistic Operations for Model Railroads, Tony Koester

Scenery for Model Railroads, Dave Frary

Benchwork for Model Railroads, Linn Wescott (optional, perhaps, with info found online..)

I have learned most of trackwork and electronics from magazines and online so cannot recommend much in that regard. Its hard to beat 20 years of model railroader as a howto guide but its not all that easy to read through if you are just starting out..

Joe Fugate has his DVD on planning a model railroad available as a video download on http://model-trains-video.com/index.php.I have only seen the "preview" versions of this but it looks like it might give you a feel for what level of prototype operations you may like. You may want to check out his other stuff. There are other cool videos but I have not purchased them so I cannot recommend anything other then Joe's at this time.

I agree with everyone who says "just build it" but with a caveat. I am a research oriented guy.. so my way is to "Read and Apply". I find taking what I read and applying it to a project of limited scope is the best way for me to learn.

Regards,

Chris

The problem with "research"

The problem with "research" is that for as many things as there are to do, you'll find 100 or so ways to do it.  Some people will say ten reasons are horrid and another five guys will happily cite their successful use of the technique or material.

There's simply that moment you have to starting DOING so you can learn precisely what you don't know so you can study that aspect and get it right - or practice the technique until you get it right.  Melt some ties!!! 

The very LAST thing I would worry about is prototype.  You're not ready yet; you WILL be ready when you know what kind of equipment you want to run [minimum curve radius], what type of scenery you like to make and look at, and have a little experience drawing track plans.  Once you make a play you have drawn, a lot of little things will become clearer.
 

Your prototype will come natural, and to a certain degree EVERY simple 2x4 trackplan COULD be ANYWHERE!!!  The only caveat is the type of scenery you do, which might very well pin down your prototype and locality right while you build your chainsaw layout.