Nice to see the results

I was excited to see your results.  Sorry it's not going to work.

Here's a thought, though.  I'm looking at T8 florescent fixtures.  I can get a 4 bulb 4' fixture for about $40.  I'm hoping that one bulb will be enough for 4' of railroad, making that $40 go 16' total.  Two of those will light my entire layout, though it looks like you're going to need a little more than that.  4 35W bulbs (one fixture) will draw 140 watts, or about 1.3A on a 110V circuit.  Perhaps that would work for your purposes?

Led lighting

You might want to check out this Youtube video. They are using LED display lighting and might shed some light on the subject.< G>

Rob Teed

LED lighting

One of your main problems is with the loss of light and in the top photo you are lighting up the floor above.

LED strips rely on reflective surfaces to give the best effect.  Try screwing a piece of 3mm MDF or Hardboard to make a ceiling using the sheet that already is painted.

You will really notice the difference.  There may be 300 of them on a strip but compare them to flouro tubes and then check the power bill for the next six months as compared to the 5mtr roll of LEDs and also remember that you can buy two roles of LEDs for $40.00 and use half the power of the tubes.

Variations and reflectors

Tom, the light on the ceiling is coming from the sections of strip that are hanging down from the sides of my temporary install. The LEDs on the strip that is wire-tied to the MDF on the valance are pointing straight down. Spec sheet says the strips have a 120 degree light spread with the majority of concentration within 45 degrees either side of center.

I haven't given up on the LED strip idea just yet. With so much layout to light up they are the only viable method from a cost of use standpoint as you mention. I am going to try a variety of positions and reflectors to see if I can improve the performance. Let you know my results.

Ken, when I do the math I simply don't have sufficient circuit capacity to run the number of tubes needed. My load center has one remaining spare circuit. I am reluctant to use it up. I have already put double breakers in the bottom 5 slots so my panel is maxed out at 40 circuits.

Candles, hmmm. Maybe I should try candles.

Interesting

Even if you aren't getting as much light as you'd like, the lighting at least appears to be fairly even (i.e. no alternating light and dark spots, and none of the sparkly effect that can happen with LED rope light).  Is that in fact the case?

It does seem tough to be able to judge how things are working at this points since the actual reflectivity of the layout has yet to be established, but the mockup does look a bit dark.

Rob:

The light is extremely even across, a nice quality. The MDF surface is tan so closely replicates barren ground. The light is not as bright in person as the pictures make it appear. With the room lights on you can barely tell the LEDs are on. However they sure are bright when you look directly at them. Blindingly bright I might even say. For some reason they don't project well.

If they truly are 120 degrees ...

Alan:

If the LED light strips are truly 120 degrees of illumination, that means they're probably 60 degrees each side of the face.

The way you have them mounted, it looks like most of that 60 degrees to the front of the bar is illuminating the floor and being wasted.

You should mount the bar at a 45 degree angle toward the wall, which should pull in the other half of the light (okay, 85% of it, at least) back onto the layout.

This assumes, of course, that the bar's 120 degrees is equal both directions forward and backward from the bar, thus with each half being 60 degrees from the lit bar face.

What we've got here is a failure to illuminate

Progress... a tin foil reflector on the backside of the valance made a significant difference!

Joe, angling the strip didn't make more illumination (the tin foil is responsible for all of the increase) but it did make a nice light blue to dark blue fade on the backdrop. The strip is mounted 2" up inside the valence so very little light seems to be lost past the bench to the floor.

Still not enough illumination to keep me happy but it's getting better. Not ready to give up on LED just yet.

It will be worth the effort

Alan-

Nice job experimenting with the LED's.  I'm interested to see what the final result will be.  I understand your power source limit regarding not using other lighting types.

Perhaps you could try additional reflection surface.  In a test setup this could be made of any material, covered with the aluminum foil.  Also, perhaps moving the LED strip a bit farther away from the backside of the valance would allow more reflector.  I suppose ideally it's a curved surface aiming downward and back into your layout, with the LED's pointing to a location about a third of the way inward from the front edge..

A while back I wired my workshop area, and put in a dozen incandescent bulbs, each 100 watts.  Lots of light.  Lots of heat, too.  I had a project where I needed even more light to see some fine work, and switched to screw-in halogens, which improved the illumination somewhat, and doubled the heat.  It was winter so at the time I didn't mind.  Then I took an aluminum pie tin (after eating the pie)  (oh, and washing the tin) and cut it to fit above the bulbs.  Lots of light!!  I finally had what I wanted.  The difference was amazing.  Later on, I swapped out the lamps for 4-foot 32-watt fluorescents with 5,000-degree tubes. 

Anyway, all this to say the reflectors helped me the most, and helped a lot.  Shiny bare metal is better than white, but be aware the metal, usually aluminum, will go dull over time.  The metal doesn't change the reflected color spectrum teh way a painted surface will.  A larger reflector will keep the light energy bouncing back down where you want it and you will want to get the most from those LED's.  If the test works out perhaps the final reflector could be made from aluminum clothes-dryer vent ductwork cut to size.  Maybe a coat of car wax will keep it shiny longer.

I have my layout room cleared, and this winter will be doing the "foundation work" which includes lighting.  The idea of LED illumination is on my list primarily because of it's lack of heat output.  I'm most interested to see how this works out for you!

thanks,

Kevin

LED lighting

The second photo with the reflector is much better and when all of the rails and buildings etc are on the layout you will also get micro reflectors from those items. 

The LED strips often are available with two types of LEDs.

One type has an angle of around 170 degree light projection and the other is where the LED has a smaller degree of projection and if you look closely you will see that the construction of the LED will be a moulded white block with the LED not protruding out past the edge of the block at all.

I would think that the later is the style that you have.  You can also get standard and super-bright types but the later is a little dearer, however, don't be put off by that small amount of extra money when you consider that even low grade LEDs will still give about 20000 hours of use and unlike Flouro tubes they do NOT loose their luminescence as the tubes do with use.

Although the type I use have the more extreme angle I mount them onto a piece of 45 degree 1 inch timber moulding which is just perfect.

I am also about 4 inches closer to the baseboard.

Good luck and get ready to get plenty of compliments from visitors about the fantastic even lighting.

Geoff

LED types

Are you referring to type 3528 and type 5050 LEDs or is there yet another that is brighter? My strip is type 5050 which I understand to be the brightest currently available. They are 3 LEDs molded together as a square white block with a yellow flat face. The LEDs are spaced .65" apart.

The 120 degree spread is fine. No more is needed. Actually, it is just about perfect for my application. If the benchwork were deeper then a wider spread may be advantageous.

I love the evenness of the light but at the moment there just isn't enough illumination. I temporarily hung a single 9 watt CFL (40W equiv) in the valance. It lights up the bench as good as the LEDs but of course is not even remotely close to the evenness. I suspect that if I put CFLs on 2' centers as others do the result will be excellent. I am experimenting with the LEDs primarily because they offer much simpler installation, longer life, and most importantly won't load my lighting circuit the way the CFLs will.

LED comments

I'd love to know where to find two rolls for $40.  I suspect we're talking apples and oranges, a different type of strip. Ebay search for "Pure White 5M 300 led 5050 SMD Flexible LED Light Strip" and you'll find the going rate for a 5-meter roll to be $32-36 postpaid.  Plus the power supply, which can be had for $10-12 via Ebay or surplus. 

A few notes from my own research/experiments:

• Terminology is pretty nonstandard. "White" can mean a range of color temps, but usually approximates "Cool White" flourescent.  "Pure White" seems to be slightly warmer but still ranges from 5000k to 6500k depending on vendor, for those that even list the temp.
• Waterproof versions cost more and seem unnecessary for us
• Lumens output is all over the map, where it's even listed - not sure I trust the listings
• Shipping from Hong Kong to Seattle has been really fast for me, ranging 1-2 weeks
• Be sure you get the polarity right, it is said you can destroy the LEDs otherwise (I haven't verified this
• Alan mentions needing a large power supply for 400' of layout - I'd use multiple smaller supplies.

Question for Alan, is that 2.6A draw from the full 5 meters? The 5m 300-LED strips are all rated at 6A total - I'm hoping you've discovered they are conservatively rated.

-- Bill

2.6A @ 12v

Yes.

Several smaller power supplies is what I should have said. Power transformers above 20A 12v at Digikey start getting real pricey. Still, you have the mains draw from each to contend with.

Alan have you got a supplier link?

LED Source

Barry is on the path I took. eBay. I filtered for North American suppliers.

SMD 5050 LED 300 White 5M

Warm white or cool white??

Warm white or cool white??

Believe the package or the spec sheet?

The package is labeled cool white but the spec sheet says the color temp is 6500K. Cool white is usually 4700 or 5000K. The LEDs appear to be 6500K as the spec sheet states. Am considering buying a strip of warm white (2700K) and combining the two. Need more lumens plus the 6500K strip is too blue with my blue backdrop.

Thankyou...

Leds

Hi Alan,

I would be interested in seeing results of two light strips together. Maybe that would produce the needed

light.

Rob

2 strips

Rob, 2 strips definitely works. My strip is 16' long. My test setup is 8'. I folded the strip so I had two runs down the 8'. Worked great. Unfortunately I didn't take a photo. The test setup is torn down for the time being as I am back to carpentry building the south helix backdrop support structure.

While the double row worked I discounted it due to cost. Works out to be roughly $5 / ft. to light it that way not to mention the cost of building numerous power supplies. With over 200' of bench to light the cost is a bit out there for me. My wife has me on a railroad budget. Unless I can come up with no other option I don't want to blow a whole year's worth of budget money on LEDs and power supplies.

If I do end up with double strips of LEDs then I think I want to try using one 6500K and one 2700K as mentioned earlier. The 6500K combined with the blue backdrop is just too sterile and too blue looking.

Currently switching over to LEDs

I'm in the process of ripping out my awful CFL bulbs and installing LED lighting. I'm using two 5050 5M 300 LED strips, one white and the other RGB so I can control the colour of the scene. This way I can gradually change from day into sunset and slowly fade into night... or make the layout green or purple or anything I want! These two strips give me plenty of light for the most part. my layout is generally  a 2 ft. shelf with the valence bottom about 2 ft. up.  I've mounted the strips at the bottom of the valence shining horizontally into the scene so as to get light onto the ceiling (my ceiling is painted as sky and is coved into the backdrop) This arrangement sheds enough light both up and down for most of the layout, in a couple of places where I have some trestles I've installed a short strip over the bridge that is angled down to shine directly into the canyon. I have one city scene which is 4 ft. deep which might need more light, I'm going to experiment with putting a few short strips behind large buildings (I'm in O scale) to fill in the back.

I previously had a 13W Daylight CFL every 3 ft. and the LEDs deliver at least that much light now. It's still a work in progress but I'm  most happy with it so far.

RR

Your LED setup

Hey On30guy,

How about posting some pics of your lighting setup.

Rob

my LED setup

here are some pics

this one is the overall illumination level. 

This is what the typical LED strip installation looks like, the RGB LEDs are on the bottom and the white strip is above it. I had to use hot glue to adhere them as the adhesive backing would not hold. The black wire above the LEDs is a power feed bus for the white LEDs. I feed the strip from both ends as there is a significant voltage drop at the end of a 5M strip. 

The last pic shows how I handle lighting for the bridge areas. A short length of white strip is added above the other two and angled down to shine into the canyon.

I haven't got all the LED wired up yet but so far the results are good. I'm currently looking into several systems to automate the day to night sequence but haven't figured out which I will use yet.

RR

this one is the overall illumination level

Nice looking scene.

I'm wondering if this is with the RGB  at full (all colors) or what combination etc.

It looks as if your RGB is "waterproof" and the white is not? It's sort of hard to tell.

I'm also very interested in you're research into scene lighting.

I've also got one of each 5M coils (3528 for the warm white, 5050 for RGB) along with the cheesy "IR Control Box" for color.  It works OK, but I think the DMX512 stuff looks like it should work better.  I just don't know how it's supposed to work yet (not enough InterWebs time spent).

Thanks for your post.