I'll go first, of course

If I were starting over..

I'd stay with HO standard gauge.  In spite of my love of narrow gauge and the pros & cons of the various other scales, the sheer volume of stuff available is a huge benefit to me.

For my love of steam, I'd stick with the 1930s-'40s, despite the difficulty finding things for that period.

Metal wheels throughout, and some form of scale knuckle coupler (Kadee, McHenry, Accu-Mate, etc.).

I would probably use Atlas code 83 track - flex and turnouts.  Other track is nice, but the Atlas stuff is inexpensive, looks good, and works well.

I would take infinitely more care to get my grades and curves and rail joints as perfect as humanly possible.  "Good Enough" is simply not good enough.

#6 turnouts and 24" radius would be a strictly observed minimum.

There's no question I'd go DCC, though I'm not sure whether I'd chose Digitrax or NCE.

I would design my track plan by starting with the track and making the benchwork fit, rather than the reverse.

Benchwork would be narrower - in the realm of 8"-12" except at towns and yards that need more room.

My backdrop would be a simple blue, rather than shaded light to dark with clouds.

Before starting on the layout, I'd have enough storage and work space to prevent the need for putting stuff on the layout.

I would leave more room -at least 3"- between the track and the backdrop, for scenery and to avoid a car's shadow on the sky.

Very Helpful

Ken

This is a very good idea - Thank you.  I am in exactly the situation you describe (except for the unlimited funds part).  I am a beginner as far as modeling railroads is concerned and since I have a very small budget, I  need to learn from others experiences.   I am eager to see what other experienced modelers have to share.

The reason for the "unlimited budget" provision

I specified the unlimited budget so that people wouldn't have to specify scrounged, used track, wire, lumber, etc.  The point is, based on your experience so far, what would you do if you could?  If the majority say they would definitely go with DCC, a beginner might want to think seriously about finding a way to get DCC into their budget.

I'm glad you like the thread, and I hope some other folks will chime in soon.  One of the things I've found is that I made a LOT of mistakes on my current layout.  I suspect a lot of people have made the same mistakes, and it would be nice if we could collectively share our hard-earned wisdom and save the next generation some of the pain and expense.

Another lesson learned

I forgot to mention - I learned the hard way that joints in curves are to be avoided at all costs.  I recently ripped up and replaced 3' of track in my staging yard because I had a joint in there with just enough gauge variation to cause derailments.  I had originally laid the track starting at a switch, and let the joints fall where they would.  I should have cut the track so that the joint was in the straight section, which is what I ended up having to do anyway.

Lesson learned.  Again.  sigh...

Another lesson learned

Soldered rail joints (before flex track is bent) on a curve works but how does one go about putting expansion spaces in curved flex track on a helix?

Real Helpful Thread

Ken, this thread is a great idea. I am starting over, or more correctly starting. This thread acts as a G&D refinement.

If there is a club available nearby, join.

Soldered rail joints (before flex track is bent) on a curve works but how does one go about putting expansion spaces in curved flex track on a helix?

Alan

Alan, there are two ways that I know of to put expansion joints in a helix.  Others may chime in, but if you don't get a suitable answer here, you may want to start a new thread with the question.  One method is to solder two pieces of flex together before laying the track, then put the two pieces of flex into the helix.  If your helix is longer than 3 sections of flex, solder flex together in 2 section increments.  Then you would treat each 2 sections soldered together as one section of flex and put joiners between the first set and the next set 2 by 2 until the helix in complete.   When you install the next section of flex into the helix, secure both ends that you are joining to the sub roadbed before you continue the curve to make sure there are no kinks.

The other method that I know of is to solder all of the sections of flex together to make up the helix and install the helix gluing down all of the track with contact cement, barge cement, or what ever adhesive you prefer.  Once the helix is in place, tested, and proven to be reliable with no kinks, go back with your Dremel and cut expansion gaps in the rails.  I would cut each gap about 1/2 way between the solder joints on every other section of flex, i.e.-@ 3 1/2 feet for the first one and then @ every 3 feet there after.

solder everything!

We solder all the joints on the entire helix, but we only put a track nail in every third or fourth hole so that the track can bend when the helix expands or contracts (it's actually the wood that changes size, not the track.)  We also stagger the joints so that they aren't side by side, which makes the kinking worse.

STARTING OVER

HI RICKMAN, I'M INTO HO SCALE SOME 65 YEARS. IN THE 40' AND 50' " HO " TWO RAIL TRACK WAS THE WAY TO GO. IF I COULD START OVER I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN INTO " N ". " N" SCALE  HAS COME TO GO EQUAL  WITH  HO, AND THE SPACE SAVING INCREASE, GIVES MORE AREA FOR THE BUCK., LOCO'S AND ROLLING STOCK LOOK AS GREAT AT STAND OFF AS ANY OTHER SCALE. BUT I'M 80 PLUS.    BAYOUMAN

Rail expands or contracts with temperature.

Wood expands or contracts from moisture content.  We had a member of the modular club who used to insist that we should cut our "joiner tracks" between modules to just be a nice slip fit without any play or room for expansion between modules.  He was in charge of the set up at one mall show, so he was going to "show us how it should be done."  We were set up in an indoor mall under skylights.  We set up in the evening with the layout oriented in a north-south direction.  The next morning, as the sun came up, the west side of the layout started kinking, and we had to remove and cut the joiner tracks to stop the kinking.  As the sun moved across the sky each new section of layout the received direct sunlight needed to have the joiner tracks adjusted until by the afternoon, all of the joiners tracks between modules were cut to allow for expansion.

Another friend built a layout in an old garage here in Southern Cal.  Part of the track was laid in winter in cool evenings.  It worked fine until the next summer when the temps went into the 90's -low 100's.  In that section, the bench work didn't change, but all of the flex track kinked into tight "S" curves between all of the track nails.

If you layout space is climate controlled for temperature, but not for humidity, you may have problems with the wood expanding and contracting  with changes in humidity.  This expansion & contraction will be mitigated or even eliminated with a coat of paint on both sides of all wood used in the bench work.  If your space is not climate controlled to keep a relatively constant temperature 24-7, 365 days a year, your rail will expand and contract.

Not arguing that

Yes, there is a tiny amount of expansion due to heat (I think someone calculated it at about half a millimeter per rail length over a huge temperature range,) so there will be a bit of that, but wood moves far more due to humidity than the rail ever will.  I'm sure one in 50 people paint all their wood in their helices, but we are not among the 2%.

Opps, did it again

I detoured another fine thread. So sorry about that. Great helix track info so far although I will be more polite and start a new thread when helix building time arrives.

Anticipating more great "Starting Over" comments....................

Redo

As a young modeler I should have been more selective on equipment, and not collected so much "junk"

Now I have a 27x32 HO triple deck layout, I would have changed a few ideas on track arrangement, moved and adjusted a few places, but honestly I just enjoy the hobby more and more as I grow older. The layout is my first and a dream come true.

Dont be afraid to try new things, read and gather information, learn from others but also let yourself explore ideas.

When I started designing the layout, I had never seen a double decker, and not heard about a triple decker other than some posts on a yahoo group. But I explored the ideas and tested elevations, then got started building.

Dont sit and doodle that paper drawing forever. Get the base idea and then try it out in full size.

And my big brother advice to a new modeler: Its a hobby, do it for yourself to enjoy, good enough for yourself. It will never be perfect but we can always learn and try to make it better. Dont let the nit pickers destroy your enjoyment.

If you like my layout then tell me. If you dont like my layout then tell me and dont let the door hit your backside as you leave. The train room is my escape from work and stress. My kids join me there often, sharing the hobby with them, letting them try new things, run trains and share time with them. I even have two sections for just them, its theirs other than the bench work and track. They can scenic it how they want. Its also the first places they take friends to see.

Rule # 1: HAVE FUN ! Its a hobby, a place to relax, to enjoy and worry over important things like how many rivets on that bridge?

starting over

If I were starting over I would have a drywall ceiling and not t bar. My friends with drywall ceilings have almost no problems with dirty track whereas I have a constant battle.

Enthusiastic collecting

Honestly, is there a model railroader who has not done this?  It seems to be our nature to start out by buying anything and everything.  I think I may have one or two pieces of rolling stock from my initial binge - everything else has been sold, donated, or scrapped.  In some cases, that hurt.  Giving up on my dream of a complete scale model of the City of Los Angeles ca. 1950 was not easy - but I also felt an immense relief when I did so, because it was one less uncompleted project waiting for me under the bench.

I would emphasize to a young modeler that you should embrace a change in your attitude as you mature, and that selling off everything and starting over is not as hard as it seems - it can even be a breath of fresh air.  Changing eras, prototypes, even scale or gauge, can be the inspiration for a whole new level of enjoyment of the hobby.

I like starting over

I'm on my third layout in three years, and I actually like starting over. I like the clean slate, I like the opportunity to fix my mistakes, I like the actual process of building a layout.

I've designed my current one to be "saveable", but I already know I'll scrap fairly large portions of it. I'm ok with that.

Starting over

Great topic!

I would stick to N-scale and Pennsylvania Railroad during the transition era, or maybe go for a Midwest prototype with more interchanges and less focus on numerous industries. But instead of proto-freelancing a fictious branch, I'd try to model the real thing. I've been surprised that there is so much useful information on the internet. The research part thrills me more and more, and is not difficult, at least not for such a big railroad during a popular era.

To speed up the - in my opinion - a bit boring and difficult construction and carpenting phase, I'd go for a layout with less grades than I have now, maybe extruded foam instead of L-girder and risers.

Then there is the everlasting question: Should I build bigger to include what I lack on my present railroad (i.e. more staging, longer mainline run, a few more stations, a passenger terminal, make the classification yard double ended) or should I try to minimize my dreams into a well balanced little gem that won't be a forever plywood prairie?

/Erik Wejryd, Linköping, Sweden

http://www.catskilldivision.com

If I was starting over...

I wouldn't have such a difference in the elevation of my track.  I wanted a trestle and designed the layout with eight inches of difference which made some very steep grades.  If I started over I would drop the benchwork to accommodate the trestle.  I was working as a "lone wolf" back then and didn't know any better, so the second thing I would have done was get involved with a group of modelers before starting the layout.

Rick

Next time....

.... I will stick to the time-honored K.I.S.S. principle!. Less stuff, but better detailed. Less track, but to higher standards. No rush. It is supposed to be for MY own enjoyment, so, while eager to learn from others, will do things my own way (even is not 100% right). Scale HO or larger. Good looking and performing sectional track. Decent (but not top of the line) cars and locos, no point on spending money on detail that will not be seen from 1' away. 1 level around 55" from the floor. May join a modular club. VERY casual operation, not looking for MORE stress.

I may change scales and move

I may change scales and move from HO to O. Easier to see. I also enjoy the look and feel of the large O scale cars.

Starting now

It's been 25 years since I have built a layout. My last one was based on Malcolm Furlows  San Juan Central. A layout published in Model Railroader magazine. I built it without changing the trackwork or design. It was  a pretty cool layout and I did get some mountains built up. This time around I'm going to design a multi-level design and keep it in a room 16'x17' with a helix in another room. I have a 2000 sq ft basement but decided to use only a small space because of time restraints. I stay quite busy with my work and dont expect to have a lot of time to devote to the layout.

I have been building the room for several months and its going a lot slower then expected. So I would say most importantly keep it manageable.

Rob

Rob, now that's wisdom!

Rob,

You said at the end of your post: "So I would say most importantly keep it manageable."  That's probably the best advice I've ever heard!

Rick

Where to begin...

I have now been working on my current layout for almost 20 years, and I have been working on the rolling stock and structures on the layout for almost 30 years. If I was to start over again, there are a number of things that I would change, in addition to some that I would keep.

I would stay in HO scale. I have never considered nor been interested in larger scales, and while there have been incredible improvements in N-scale over the last 20 years, my eyesight hasn't been as fortunate.

Hidden staging should never be hidden. In another area where it's readily accessible and easy to get to- yes. Hidden- no. Those lift-outs made from styrofoam panels that I used to access the hidden staging tracks worked great- until they were covered with scenery. And yes, there have been some good articles on building lift-outs, but they are still a pain to use. I would also avoid long runs hidden by anything.

I would use the largest possible radius for my curves. I considered 30" to be more than adequate when I began, and it works well with 6-axle diesels and 50- 60' freight cars. But 85' passenger cars and inter-modal flats just don't look right to me on curves that tight. They might work ok, but the appearance really suffers. I would look to some of the insights in MRH regarding minimum radii for whatever lengths of rolling stock I planned to use.

Hand-laying track and turnouts is something that I have always enjoyed. If I was starting over, I would probably use a mix of commercial track and hand-laid turnouts using CV ties. It would certainly speed up the process of getting the layout up and running, and with a little paint and weathering it can look better than hand-laid track.

I have always enjoyed scratch-building and kit-bashing structures, and there's something about having a structure that no one else has that has always appealed to me. I would continue along this path, even though it takes longer to get scenes completed.

There are a number of people on this site who are building layouts and it's clear that they have spent a lot of time and effort in the planning process. There's a good reason for this, and I suspect that some, if not most, of them have built layouts previously. I jumped in and started working on the bench work as soon as the drop ceiling was in place and the backdrop was complete. I hung a few fluorescent lights around the layout with the thought that I would come back later and install single tube fluorescent around the edge of the bench work behind valances. Installing the single tubes after some of the scenery was installed was a real pain. And I never did get them to line up the way I wanted because of the method in which I hung them from the drop ceiling. And the valances didn't quite cover the lights the way I had intended. There are a lot of good reasons to think these things through before you begin construction of the layout.

I'm not sure if I would stick with proto-freelancing or pick a specific prototype. I have thoroughly enjoyed the creative side of coming up with a plausible location, operational characteristics, time period, paint schemes (both current and past) and all the other attendant pieces associated with a building a believable model of what might pass for a real railroad. But I have also started collecting steam engines and rolling stock of the C&O, and I have long been deeply interested in the coal operations of the C&O and Virginian in West Virginia. Perhaps now that the kids are in college, one of their bedrooms will be confiscated for a brief foray into prototype modeling.

One of the biggest mistakes I made was violating the "pass through each scene once" rule. In order to maximize the length of the main line, the track currently goes to the end of a peninsula, enters a tunnel and then comes back out on the same side of the peninsula while gaining elevation. When the main line gets back to the base of  the peninsula, it goes into a tunnel that goes through the backdrop to the other side. You can watch the engines enter the tunnel, but you better make tracks if you want to see the engines come out of the tunnel portal on the other side of the peninsula. If I was starting over, I would seriously consider a double deck layout with shallower scenery in order to avoid this mistake and have a longer main line run.

I've rambled long enough. Suffice it to say that the most important change I would make would be to take very seriously the recommendations and advise of others who have already been where I plan to go. In a lot of instances, I thought I knew better, or that my design/concept/idea would work out just fine in spite of advise to the contrary.

Tom Patterson

Well said

That's about as well said as any advice I've heard on the topic.  I hope somebody listens - and that somebody includes me!