Dan S.

I am in the process of trying to design my new layout and i am finding myself suffering from a little analysis paralysis. For a long time now i have wanted to design and build a prototype layout of Sand Patch Grade in Pa. however i have always been limited in space and had to settle for a much smaller free lanced layout. A recent move Interstate has landed me with the ideal layout area to now maybe have this dream layout realised. I am very much interested in the mainline operations of the area especially the helper operations but my major concern is that if i dedicate myself to modelling this reigon, should my focus shift to more operation possibilities i would be some what limited in switching operations and the such other than if i model around 1990 when csx was operating the Blue lick industrial track near meyersdale to serve the mine on the old WM. This will still restrict me to coal operations only. I would like to get some input from others that have been in my situation and how they have reolved the design conflict. is the answer to proto freelance and "introduce" other operating potential or...  i have no idea what else to do. i feel that route will detract from the reason i wish to model that area. please give as much input... harsh or constructive to snap me out of this lull

 

Thanks

DAN

 

Reply 0
rickwade

One man's opinion (subtitled "My 2 cents worth")

Dan,

First of all, I am NO expert on this, so I'll just give you my personal view.  I believe that you should do exactly what you like and don't worry about following any strict set of guidelines.  Even guys that claim they are (100%) prototypical are not.  I've never seen a real railroad use HO scale (or any other scale than 1 to 1) equipment.

I spent a great deal of time where your are trying to decide how to go.  What helped me is to put it down on paper as this helped me to see it more clearly.  I just took a legal pad and started writing.....things like "lots of hills & scenery / a freight yard / a nice town or towns".  I quickly filled up the sheet and then I quickly saw that I probably couldn't do everything I wanted.  I then went back through the list and tried to put items in order of importance (one thing was it HAD to be the L&N!).  Next I closed my eyes and tried to visualize what the railroad would look like, and how I would interact with it.

For me, I ended up with a freelance layout.  I've since added something to my list that wasn't there originally - operations.  My next expansion will allow for operations while "staying true" to my original basic ideas.  The main thing is to create a layout that will be fun for you.  I hope that this helps.

Rick

Rick

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The Richlawn Railroad Website - Featuring the L&N in HO  / MRH Blog  / MRM #123

Mt. 22: 37- 40

Reply 0
LKandO

Givens and Druthers

Agree with Rick. Make your Givens and Druthers lists. Analysis good, paralysis not so good. G&D lists will remove the paralysis.

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
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Chris VanderHeide cv_acr

Compromises

Well, ultimately any layout brings in certain compromises for space...

I'm not real familiar with the Sand Patch route and the actual operations around there. If you widen your search around the area, are there any spots with similar scenery and features but a little more operational potential? And it's worth it to consider what type of operation is most important. Heavy mainline traffic, helper operation on heavy grades, or the possibility of lots of local switching with some through traffic?

Even a location where there is a junction of a couple of lines can be a great operational point, if there is a yard at the junction where blocks of cars for different routes get set out and switched.

The area that my club models is a pretty great spot for operations, as it is on the CPR's main transcontinental route, so lots of straight through traffic, but the centrepiece of our layout is at the junction of two additional routes and also supports some local industry (mining and forestry/paper products). So the yard remains pretty consistently active, as mainline trains drop cars for the other routes and for the local traffic served out of the yard, and there are at least half a dozen local trains based out of the yard (although with large parts of the layout as yet unfinished, we're only running about 3-4 of them.)

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wp8thsub

Another $.02

I'd suggest preparing a list of the attributes you would most like to have in a layout, and rank in order of importance.  Compare the list to a range of potential prototypes and see how well each one fits.  Such a list can include availability of equipment and structures as well as scenery and operational criteria.  Bernie Kempinski created a decision matrix in one of his articles on planning an N scale layout, in which he decided to model the D&RGW Tennessee Pass line (I think).  If you have that available it might help (a Model Railroad Planning issue maybe?).

For what it's worth, I chose to proto-freelance because I couldn't find the ideal combination of operation, scenery and so on that actually fit in my space satisfactorily.

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

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Dan S.

Focus shift

i have decided after following the excellent advice that you  guys have provided, after completing my givens and druthers list the sand patch area just does not fit the bill. i have since set upon another game plan. i have shifted the modeled area to west virginia as operational potential and scenic attributes are more conducive with my goals. i have since designed a twice around type layout with a 2.5% grade in either direction which will satisfy the heler operations part of me. there are also some rail served industries which include a mine. Instead of filling all the availible space with railroad i decided to  also include a completely isolated coal branch just like Tony Koester did on the AM with the coal fork extension. The idea behind this is if i wish to have helper operatins i can as well as those time i want to slow it down a bit and just run the mine run. i feel this may be the best of both worlds for me as i really enjoy both. the mine run will stop just short of the portal to get clearance to run down the branch. this will enable the operator to move to the branch side of the layout to resume opertains, much like on the AM. i am very tentative to post a version of my track plan but i need to have a thick skin as the more input i get the better my layout will be. The advice given so far has been fantatstic so here goes.

Another advantage of the separate branch is that i can dissasemble it and take it to shows.  The plan is not complete and there may be some errors but i wanted input before going any further. Note the mine at the bottom right is to represent an abandoned  mine that is no longer connected to the main. the 2 unconnected hidden tracks lead to a hidden 3 track staging yard.

DAN

 

 

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Reply 0
mecovey

Sand Patch modeling

Hey Dan I appreciate your situation. I had also planned to model Sand Patch from Hindman to Myersdale so on a vacation to the area I decided to railfan the grade. It was July and being a flatlander from Illinois I had no idea of the density of the vegitation until I saw it. It kind of reminded me of Deliverence where Burt Reynolds was trying to find the river and couldn't because of the trees. I was within yards of the railroad several times and couldn't see it. Anyway I finally found Mance, Manilla, Fairhope and Myersdale and got to spend a very enjoyable 2 hours in the tower with the operator who was very friendly and in need of conversation. Obviously this was in the 70s before Al Qaeda et al!

Two things were readily apparent - The only thing that happened was trains rolled through wihout stopping so I had better view myself as a "railfan" if I wanted to model the grade and the second was the rocks were RED. Since I enjoy switching it became apparent that this was not going to fill the bill  as a prototype spot for my railtroad even though I'm a died in the wool "Beano" fan.

My solution was similar to yours - I moved the railroad from Pennsylvania to West Virginia and freelanced M&K Junction at Rowelsburg. I have a branch that goes to two online tipples and interchanges with the B&O similar to the Morgantown & Kingswood..

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Reply 0
Russ Bellinis

I like your track plan.

Some others may see some short comings that are not apparent to me.  The question that pops into my head is that you are going to ned to get under or through the railroad somewhere to get into the central operating pit.  How high is the benchwork?  If the benchwork is high enough in some spot, a "nod under" is not too bad.  If you need to get on your hands and knees to crawl under, that could get old fast, and it gets "older" as you get older if you know what I mean.

Reply 0
Dan S.

lift out

as the layout is modular there will be a removable section. i am not fond of duckunders so i try to avoid them.
the plan is based on an approximation of the area i wil have but the layout size will be confirmed at the end of next week so i may end up with more space and a different plan. i have several hypothetical plans based on different size areas as this has all i have been able to do for the last month as i do not have a current modelling area.

Reply 0
Russ Bellinis

I would recommend Bragdon's Geodisic Foam Scenery.

It is an extremely lightweight & strong method of building scenery.  It is more expensive than some of the more conventional methods of construction, but for the lift out, at least, I don't think you will find anything as strong or as light weight.  I went to one of his clinics at a train show a few years ago.  He had loaded his materials, a tool box, and a few demonstration modules that he had built in a van to drive from the San Francisco Bay area down to Orange County in So Cal.  It was about a 400 mile drive, and the tool box that weighed between 50 and 100 lbs fell on one of the modules on the way down and rode with one corner of the tool box trying to dig into the module.  He discovered the problem when he got to the show and started unpacking things.  There was a bit of dirt and debris off of the tool box corner where it rode on the module, but he cleaned off the dirt and there was no other evidence that anyt5hing had happened.  A 2 x 4 foot module built with his materials weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 7lbs!

http://www.bragdonent.com

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