Hard Luck and Bankrupt RR

This Look ok?... I made these as ground cover for my hillside on my layout and was wonder if they looked ok, I like them, but....I'm still very new at this and don't have the experience you guys have.

Thanks so much for your feedback.

ains_025.jpg ains_027.jpg ains_028.jpg 

Yeah,  I'm new at this... is it that obvious? lol...

Reply 0
kleaverjr

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish...

In his book on the Allegheny Midland, Tony Koester discusses some of the scenery techniques, which included modeling a "forest" but not trees.  For trees that are on a hillside that represents the first of many distant hills/mountainsides, he stressed you wanted a more uniform color because you are not trying to model individual trees but fool the eye into seeing them as a canopy of trees.  When you look at photos of hillsides (In Appalachia at least) the colors do look rather uniform because of the way the distance and seeing through "air" which tends to homogenize the colors of the trees.  So if you are looking for a result of modeling a distant hillside, having the brown mixed in with the green defeats that goal.  On the other hand,IF your goal is to model individual trees for this scene to attain your final goal, they look very good.  Again, it depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the scene.  It's hard to tell by the photos with it's proximity to the backdrop, if you are trying to convey some distance of the mountainside from the rest of the scene, or if you intend for it to be more a part of the foreground.

Ken L.

Reply 0
LKandO

Since you asked...

Looks too compacted to me. Even dense forested areas have some separation between trees. Keep in mind my tree observing is pretty much limited to the Midwest US.

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
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Reply 0
kleaverjr

Excelent Point Alan!

MUCH depends on what area of the country you are trying to replicate.  Trees and Forests will look signficantly different throughout the world. 

Ken L

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Hard Luck and Bankrupt RR

Thanks all

I guess I'm trying to make a low tree cover for my hillside, the trees will go around the rock faces so they stick out.

I live in the South East and have seen what I am trying to reproduce.

I will try to space them out more, but i am affraid the hillside will show....maybe if I added some short trees to the mix it would look a little more forest like....

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ernest

Yeah,  I'm new at this... is it that obvious? lol...

Reply 0
rickwade

Good feedback

The guys that have posted thus far to your question gave good information.  Did you see the MRH video primer on forced perspective?  It talkes about trees.  You can see it here:

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/mrht_forced_perspective_primer

Rick

Rick

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The Richlawn Railroad Website - Featuring the L&N in HO  / MRH Blog  / MRM #123

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Reply 0
Hard Luck and Bankrupt RR

Thanks

Rick,

 

  As always the guys here have been a GREAT help. I appreciate all of the comments and advice. This is why I come here, because of the advice and experence of the people here. I can't thank them all enough.

 

Many thanks,

 

Ernest

Yeah,  I'm new at this... is it that obvious? lol...

Reply 0
ocalicreek

Just say NO to puffballs...unless...

Well, since you asked, I have to say no, it doesn't look okay.  But that's because I really don't like puff ball trees.  Since I first saw them I have never liked them.  Sorry.  If they look good to you, go for it, but here are a few things to consider.

Let me make this as constructive and helpful as possible.  I was born in Virginia, grew up in Florida, and spent alot of time traveling around the southeast, so I 'studied' Appalachian forests like most people know art - they may not know anything about it but they know what they like.  It just has to have a certain look.  Puffball trees never seem to do it for me.  They're too dense and compact, too uniform, and too often are placed on a layout in such a way that the aforementioned forced perspective is not used to full advantage.

But then I actually learned more about why I like the look I do, and why puffballs don't work (for me).  First, trees have trunks and branches, and they rarely produce a manicured, round blob of foliage except in public places where they're trimmed or city parks where they can grow full and round - if the variety naturally makes that shape.  Many varieties in appalachian forests, if left standing alone in an open field, would NOT make a simple round shape, but more of a spade or triangle or lumpy oval.  Grown in a forest they would definately not make a vast carpet of evenly spaced bumps.  So the argument about "this is just a canopy" just doesn't hold water in my book.  To my eye it should be less round and more pointy.

Also on trunks - at the edge of the forest, especially along railroad cuts, fence lines, etc. You can see trunks.  The 'canopy' should not just roll down onto the ground.  The smaller trees and shrubs that take advantage of the extra light a forest edge allows are a different look from the canopy.  Also the full vertical aspect of the tree is more easily seen at the edge of the forest.  Even if you only put a few trunks under the edge of the canopy, it'll still be an improvement to suggest the illusion that this is a forest, not a shrub farm.

Density - shrubs are dense, trees are airy.  Again, this is just my opinion and how I perceive a big appalachian forest look.  Poke some holes in that fiber and stretch it thin.  This will create more relief texture for a closer forest.  Of course there are exceptions to that rule like many rhodies & mountain laurels are spindly and scraggly while others are dense and round naturally...but these are forest floor shrubs, not canopy trees.

Color and texture.  Joe has some good words on this subject in his Tenmile DVD series.  I think you're already off to a good start using the leaf flake foliage and the variety in color.  Again, personally, I prefer brighter greens; Woodland scenics colors are a little too muted for my taste and I usually end up spraying them with a brighter shade..  I think there's a negative connotation with these bright greens for many modelers because some poorly made toy train set trees that look far from realistic were painted in these colors.  Just a guess.

I could probably go on and on about trees, but this is enough for now.  I hope this helps provoke some thought.  Like I said, if you're happy then great, but there are many options for modeling forests convincingly.

Galen

Visit my blog, Gallimore Railroading, at ocalicreek.blogspot.com

Reply 0
DJDeno

Hardluck,I like where you

Hardluck,

I like where you are going with these puff ball trees.

You have a nice variation in the colors, and some different textures as well.

IMHO, I think the problem you are having is in the size of the puff balls.

If you like the look of puffball trees, I would stay the course, and use the same technique as you used in these, only I would try making them smaller.

Your backdrop is pretty close to the track in this area, and the size of the ones you have in the photo, portray thick bushes or brush, rather than distant trees.

Now, I have never used this type of tree, but if I were to do them in the application you have here,

I would do a short foam cut out of the distant ridge line and paint it black.

Then, I would cover that with these puff balls, but I would make them much smaller.

The balls you have in the photos look to be about 2 to 2 1/2 inches?

I would try them at somewhere closer to 3/4's to an inch in diameter.

Try a mock up of about 6 to 12 inches in length, and place it up on the ridge to see if you like it better.

The ridge behind the track can always be sculpted, and you can place some brush, rocks, logs and grass in that area,and perhaps drop the rear edge of the ridge area, where it would meet the tree line, to give the impression that the tree line is further back in the distance...forced perspective.

Something like this.....

 

 

 

That's my 2 cents, worth the price charged.

Dave

Reply 0
Hard Luck and Bankrupt RR

Thanks Dave

Thanks for the advice. I have updated the area and I hope it looks better now. I am using the puffball idea for bushes more than trees. Kinda like overgrowth, hanging over a rock sided cliff. Please let me know what you think of the new pictures below.

Many many thanks for your help.

 

Ernest

ains_010.jpg ains_012.jpg 

Yeah,  I'm new at this... is it that obvious? lol...

Reply 0
Hard Luck and Bankrupt RR

Thanks for the reply

Galen,

Thanks for the reply. Like I said before I am new and appreciate all the feedback I can get.

I saw the puffball video on Model Railroader mag, and thought I could make them into low lying bush like coverings. Like you said with my track so close to the hillside, I thought that overgrown bushes would look good. On a visit to the mountains here in NC, I stumbled across some old RR tracks and followed them to an old small yard/siding and this is where I saw the hill side with the brush growing over the top and down the sides in spots. I guess this is what I am trying to do.

Thanks so much for your help,

 

Ernest

Yeah,  I'm new at this... is it that obvious? lol...

Reply 0
Chris VanderHeide cv_acr

Trees

Hard Luck:

Also not a real big fan of the puffball technique in general, but what you've got looks pretty good for that style.

However they look great for bushes and low ground cover, not trees. The problem we have with trees is they tend to be so much larger than we ever model. Your "trees" on the top of the embankment are barely higher than the roof of the boxcar, when trees should really tower over the train. (But then, like I said, trees on model railroads are always too small compared to real trees, because full-scale trees would often overpower the layout.)

Reply 0
Hard Luck and Bankrupt RR

Thanks

Chris,

 

  Thanks. I like them as bushes as well, I have some Woodland scenic trees I am building now and they are much taller than a box car. Are those the trees you are talking about? I will try to post some new tree pictures later in the week. Right now I am working on the yard in front of the bushes and rocks.

 

Thanks,

 

Ernest

Yeah,  I'm new at this... is it that obvious? lol...

Reply 0
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