J. M. Loll

I am in the midst of building my portable layout benchwork. The size of the layout is approximately 3'x5'. I've opted to use 1x3 Poplar for the frame members, and 1/4" Maple Plywood for the table top. I estimate that as is, this combination weighs about 20 lbs. Ideally, I would carry the layout by itself, but if it requires two people, that's okay.

Is that too heavy?

What is a reasonable weight limit for a small, portable railroad?

 

I appreciate any suggestions you all have. Thank you.

J. M.

Reply 0
pierre52

OSH Standard

In my part of the world,  max lifting load rules for one person is 15kg or  33lbs.  For railroad modules, dimensional sizes often become an issue long before weight does.

Peter

The Redwood Sub

Reply 0
ctxmf74

What is a reasonable weight limit for a small portable railroad?

  I think it depends on how old and how strong the folks available to carry it are?  As Peter noted the size is just as important as the weight. How big a vehicle is available to carry it and how wide the access doors etc. Everyone needs to asses their own abilities, resources, and layout goals.....DaveB

Reply 0
Benny

Anything longer than 6' and

Anything longer than 6' and taller than 2' is going to cause issues...Tell me how I found out...

--------------------------------------------------------

Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits

Reply 0
dark2star

Casters and a handle

Hi,

when I was younger we had a haunt where we used to move sofas around according to our momentary needs. Those sofas were not very heavy, but they didn't have handles, so it was not possible to move them alone, even though they were light.

My own layout is of similar size, but I split it into two sections (approx. 1x5 and 2x5 ft.). That is possible to handle alone, but even then it is difficult, in my case because there ain't no handles nowhere in sight.

The common consensus for module sizes seems to be maximum 4x2 ft (1.2x0.6 m) or thereabouts. Which seems to be reasonable. As stated above, weight is usually secondary to size. Please think about how to handle the layout when moving it (handles, casters) and sizes of doors, stairs or even cars.

Have fun!

Reply 0
ACR_Forever

Handles

Can be as easy as a rectangular cutout at an appropriate place, which actually lightens the load(a tiny amount).

Blair

Reply 0
David Husman dave1905

Construction

I had a portable staging yard for my previous layouts.  I built the frame out of 1/4" plywood  cut 6" wide and 1/2 x 3/4 " wood pieces to the edges, that gave me nominally a 1x6.  Top wood piece was set down from the top edge so the 1/4" plywood table top could be recessed below the sides.  I used 3/4 ply or 1x4 at the end plates.  There were 1/4" plywood cross braces that were 4" wide.  I glued a piece of the 1/2 x 3/4 wood at the joint between the cross brace and the sides.  The cross braces were only 4" deep to allow the 2x2 legs to fold up below the cross braces.

Girder.png 

The staging yard pieces were about 16" wide and 66" long and could easily be picked up with one hand.  They were 66" long because the legs on my permanent layout were nominally 6 ft apart and that let the staging yard pieces easily fit between the legs of the layout for storage.

The 6" depth allowed for folding legs on the section, plus wiring plus under the table switch linkages.  

The staging yards were put up and taken down at each operating session and ended up being recycled as a temporary staging yard for my new layout for the first 5 years (until phase II was built).  I still have them stored under the existing layout.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index:  Dave Husman Blog Index

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

And it depends on the material.

I build my shelf layout, 12" by 24'. Made out of 2" pink foam, but to 12" by 8' lengths. Mounted on metal brackets ONLY. Just a little bracing where actually needed. The boards are adhered together on ends with a caulk that is not permanent. (DAP Alex white/the cheapest) So - if and/or when I need to move the layout, those 8' boards will snap apart/naturally, you need to cut the rails. And it is very easy to lift that board, At one point, when I had those boards laid out with roadbed and 'some' track, I needed to lift it. I was able to lift the entire 24' by myself. (At that point, I had not adhered the foam to the brackets. Later, I did so with caulk. Again so that it could be moved.) So, all I'm saying here is that you can do a lot of things different than the "usual" plywood, homasote, 2x4's and such. L girders are great, but are not conducive to moving or disassembly.  

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
Oztrainz

A lightweight worked example

Hi J.M.

For comparison purposes, here's one of my 4' x 2' modules upended on a digital scale, displaying 12.6kg or just under 28 lb 

1180797a.jpg 

This module was built light by design, with aluminium module frame, 1/2" mdf baseboard and white bead foam as the scenery base.  At the time it was flipped onto the scale it hadn't grown any fragile scenery. This would have added another 2 lb at the most. Your layout at 1' longer and 1' wider will be at least 1/3 heavier. And at 3' wide your layout will not fit though a standard door unless it is tilted with the legs removed. 

Yes I have other modules that are only 4" longer, but that extra 4" of module weight added to the far end of the module makes them a far more difficult one person lift. Especially if you have to lift them from one end and keep the layout flat during the lift.

Lifting layout lumps solo also becomes far more difficult if you have fragile scenery close to where you are lifting. This can force you to lift at less than optimal lifting locations to avoid damaging your scenery. Been there, done that, and had to replace some trees that didn't survive the lift. Thankfully it wasn't damage to model buildings that would have been a lot more difficult to fix.  

For these reasons alone I'd recommend getting the assistance of an extra person for any moving of the layout. It is just so much easier with a second person if you have to move a "layout lump". You really don't want to get yourself into hernia and possible back injury territory. 

Regards,

John Garaty

Unanderra in oz

Read my Blog

Reply 0
AlexW

That's light

Even modules can be significantly more than that. In the US, a healthy adult is expected to be capable of lifting 40lb, but a lot of modelers are older, and modules can be really awkward. I wouldn't go much higher for a show module that is transported regularly, but for a sectional layout where two people move the modules on a infrequent basis, I wouldn't have an issue with them being upwards of 100lb.

-----

Modeling the modern era freelanced G&W Connecticut Northern

Reply 0
Pennsy_Nut

Remember...

It's not just the weight. It's the length, width and height. If you have a finished module, with all the structures, etc. on, it's going to weigh more than just the base. As for what a person can lift, yes, 40 lb is about the limit. But if it's a 4'x8' plywood, it's going to be a lot harder to lift. (I don't know what a 4'x8' plywood weighs, so this is hypothetical.) What I'm saying is: One person lifting a 4'x8' plywood is not easy. Whether it's 40 lb or more or less.

Morgan Bilbo, DCS50, UR93, UT4D, SPROG IIv4, JMRI. PRR 1952.

Reply 0
ctxmf74

One person lifting a 4'x8' plywood is not easy.

It's an age thing, when I was younger it was no problem. Now I drag them around :> ) .....DaveB

Reply 0
anteaum2666

Switching Layout

I have a timesaver switching layout that is about 14" deep and 8' long.  It's built in two 4-foot long sections.  The sides are 1x3 pine covered with masonite, and the top is 1/8" hardboard with 1" foam on top of that.  The two pieces stack on top of one another and clasp together.  An engine, 6 cars, foam buildings and a power pack fit inside.  Then I put a handle on it to carry it when closed, like a suitcase.  

It started out light, but it's gotten pretty heavy.  I'd have to weigh it to get an accurate weight, but the older I get the heavier it gets, and I wish it was two 3-foot sections instead of 4 foot.

So, the point is, you will add track, wiring, scenery etc, and go beyond that 20 lbs.

At the last train show someone suggested I put a handle on one end and wheels on the other, so I can roll it around like luggage.  I may do that!!

utnamCo1.JPG 

Michael - Superintendent and Chief Engineer
ndACLogo.jpg
View My Blogs

Reply 0
dkaustin

When I did N-Trak...

When I was heavily into N-Trak, I had a standard module as far the table top dimensions, BUT it was a 2 foot deep module that included the mountain line.  It was a canyon module.  During that time period computers came shipped in a soft grey foam.  I used that to create the walls of the canyon.  It was published in the N-Trak magazine.

Weight is only one thing mentioned,  The one thing not mentioned so far in this discussion is the awkwardness of moving a module around.  You don't always know what you are going to run into at the site setup.  We setup in malls, schools, churches, club houses and our monthly setup was in a training room at the local fire academy. Double heavy doors with a post between them?  A flight of stairs or two go up?  You might be able to handle the module yourself, but what about the obstacles getting into the setup area?

The idea of making the module like a suitcase on wheels is a good idea or make a container that can protect the module in transport.  Make your structures removable.  I had a folding two wheeler to move my module from the wagon to setup room.

 

n1910(1).jpg 

     Dennis Austin located in NW Louisiana


 

Reply 1
frwright
For a 3' x 5' "module" count on needing 2 people to carry or move it.  We found that a single person's arm comfortable arm stretch to pick up a rectangular module (we range from 12" to 36" wide with the standard interface at 24" width) by the ends was LESS than 48".  Note that if you use a single person to lift across the sides, your arm will be moving across scenery.

40" became the maximum length for my modules as the longest length module I can comfortably pick up by the ends.  Most of the club uses 36" modules.  Modules that are 48" or longer ALWAYS need 2 people to carry or lift into place.  We use handholds cut into the end plates.  The leg assemblies are detached and independent from the module which makes it very nice to set the module on top of the legs when the legs are assembled (or lift off the module when legs are being disassembled).
Reply 0
MikeHughes
Foamcore is your friend!
Reply 1
Oztrainz
Only if you build the modules foamcore modules fit-for-purpose and "robust enough" to be able to handle movement and reassembly as and when required. 

Yes it can be done but it requires the correct decisions to be made at the design stage. Trying to retrofit sufficient stiffness to do the job after the event is an unnecessary design fail. 

This has been discussed on here by both myself and Prof Klyzlr in the past -  See http:// https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/foamcore-vs-wood-price-comparison-case-study-12198136?highlight=%22 $100+module%22&pid=1331093070   for a worked example of a fomcore sectional build with backscene.

Design your  layout sections with enough strength to to the job "plus a little bit extra".  Skimping on layout section rigidity when using light-weight materials can come back to bite you big time unless you really "know" the limits of your materials. 

Regards,

John Garaty

Unanderra in oz

Read my Blog

Reply 1
jimfitch
Benny wrote:

Anything longer than 6' and

Anything longer than 6' and taller than 2' is going to cause issues...Tell me how I found out... [smile]



I build my layout sections in 2x8' and was able to handle them ok.  I moved them out of my townhouse basement up stairs that turn back halfway up.  Ask me how I know!   I re-used those 2x8 sections on the new layout.  Case in point.



The pieces with the Homasote  are 2x8' section I moved and integrated into the new layout.

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
David Husman dave1905
Depends on you intend to move them.  I built a previous layout in 30"x72" sections, then put two sections facing each other and connected the two with 1/4" plywood end caps and 1/8" hardboard on the edges to form a big box  it took 2 people to move it up the stairs,  it would fit through all the doors, and once it got to a level area was easy to wheel around on a hand truck.  Those sections were moved several times with no significant damage and could be stored/stacked flat, on end or on their side.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index:  Dave Husman Blog Index

Reply 1
Benny

I build my layout sections in 2x8' and was able to handle them ok.  I moved them out of my townhouse basement up stairs that turn back halfway up.  Ask me how I know!   I re-used those 2x8 sections on the new layout.  Case in point.

In my case, I had an immediate turn into a hall.  If the layout had been flat, it might have fit.

I have been shelving up all the L-girders the club used under the old layout and I have noted they're all 72" in length.  96" would obviously be nice, but I have to remind myself most doors are about 78" tall and 30" wide and good luck moving a module with 24" of topographic relief!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------

Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits

Reply 0
Oztrainz
Perhaps some people are missing the point - The OP asked specifically

Quote:

Ideally, I would carry the layout by itself, but if it requires two people, that's okay.

Is that too heavy?

What is a reasonable weight limit for a small, portable railroad?



Moving stuff solo is a whole different ball game than if you have 2 people for the lift.  I don't care how rarely or often you have to do the move.  "Two-person rules" do not apply when there is just the one of you.

The game "gets even more interesting" if there is JUST you and the layout section has scenery on it or has a pelmet with lighting that requires the layout section to be moved while it is relatively horizontal. Then you need all aspects of lightweight layout design working for you to achieve a "manageable" layout lump that can be moved as and when required. 

If you don't want to listen about the experiences  of one who has had to do it solo, then that's fine by me. There is far more to the problem of of moving module sections solo than just the weight of the layout lump. Myself and others have pointed out shape and lifting constraints that are being studiously ignored by some posters. See "awkwardness factor".

I don't know if the OP's planned layout ever got built, given that it's now several months on. 

Regards,

John Garaty

Unanderra in oz

Read my Blog

Reply 1
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