No - at least not yet

Craftsman kits are very interesting, but not a lot suit my era/locale.  Regardless, I like them so much, I will buy at least a few and if they don't get on the layout, they'll be in a diorama.  I really like what I've seen from all those you list, but we'll see what I end up with in the end. 

In the Future

Joe, I will build a craftsman kit sometime in the future. Specifically, a coal tipple for my representation of Mettiki Mine. It is a key signature LDE and so is deserving of a craftsman kit. I love the look and detail level. But for now I am not yet that far along. Ask me the same question 2 years from now.

I have one or two Campbell kits that I picked up years ago.

I think I got them at a train show, but I don't remember for sure.  I don't think they fit my modeling plans since I changed my mind on what I want to model since buying them.  I may build them and if they come out well, throw them on Ebay to see if I can pick up some spare hobby money.

Having a kit that closely replicates what I want to build is the primary consideration that I would make when deciding whether or not to buy a craftsman kit.  The other issue would be price/value for the money compared to the cost of dong a scratch build or kitbash of something cheaper.  If I can buy the styrene, lumber, etc for less than the kit to make the same product, I wouldn't buy the kit.  In some cases the details might make the difference, but most craftsman kits that I have seen just don't fit into any layout I'm considering building.

Yep!

About a year or so ago I had asked on the forums what designates a kit as a "craftsman" kit and received a lot of good info.  Having never built one, I wanted input from forum members before I plopped down $300.  I did lots of research and ultimately bought an 8 structure kit from Sierra West.  It fit the era I was modeling, but most importantly because of the company's reputation for including a very detailed construction manual with the kits.  I followed it to the letter and here's how a few of the buildings turned out:

Now, I'm addicted to them!  I have a couple FSM kits and another Sierra West kit on my shelf.  I just recently picked up one from Rusty Stumps and also an out of production kit from FOS.  I've purchased some of them because I liked the look of the structure.  But when you take that part out of the equation, the most important thing I look for is a kit maker that puts out a good instruction manual.  Detailed directions, plenty of "in progress" pictures, supplemental color photos, a list of suggested tools, adhesives and paints, tips & techniques on weathering, detailing and scenicing-- all these things are important to me.  Since Rusty Stumps is on the list, I can tell you the Tie Hacker's Cabin is a challenging model.  It's basically a box of stripwood, roofing material and castings.  However, it includes a 130 page manual taking you step by step through the construction process.

None on this RR

I'm modeling the RGS RR and I'm trying to stay true to the prototype. Banta is the only Craftsman Kit company that caters to the RGS (Rio Grande Southern RR) they produce more than a 30 RGS Track side Structures. So far I haven't found any body else that produce 1920-1950 ERA structures for the RGS and for the D&RGW (Denver & Rio Grande Western RR's) I have looked at all of the sponsors products & most cater to newer Standard gauge structures in assorted scales that I have no use for.

Dan

Hi Joe

Hi Joe,

Before departing, I purchased kits from a number of these suppliers, as well as from a couple you didn't list (Walthers and Dallas Model Works - they were able to provide Cambell and Branchline kits, neither of which as you know are direct sponsors of MRH).

My decision to purchase a "craftsman" kit is wholly dependent upon my need, and the model.  For instance, I have seen some new mine models advertised recently, yet as I have no need for a coal mine on my layout, the odds of me purchasing this type of kit is minimal - despite the fact they are great looking kits.

On the other hand, I keep looking at the Ravenwood Leather Products HO Scale Background Kit from FOS Scale as that's model I may actually have room and purpose for.

Other "craftsman" kits are simply too expensive for my needs The limited run models that are retailing for $200+ are amazing looking, and I'm sure well worth the cost - but only to the modeler who needs a structure like that on their layout.  Note this equation changes when it's pertinent to my needs - I ordered one of the Concrete Central Vermont Coaling towers from Alkem models, not because I needed it right away, but I am hoping I might down the road.

My long point is that the decision to purchase a "craftsman" kit isn't that straightforward. There are number of contributing factors at play, and as these normally end up costing a few bucks, I think taking some time making the to or not to purchase decision is worthwhile.

None for me, thanks!

Like Dave/Skiloff, craftsman-style kits don't fit my era or locale either. Not only that, but I find them to be either too whimsical (Bar Mills) or too "Western" in nature (almost everybody else) 99% of the time.  I'm not adverse to building one mind you, but there is but one maker of kits that would even come close to fitting my era or locale (Stella Scale Models), but they are not an MRH sponsor. I admire those who like to build them, but for what I need to do, I can only kitbash or scratchbuild things, as there aren't any commercial NY Harbor pier shed manufacturers out there as far as I know!

RAH

Why?

I touched on most of this in the other thread, so as to why I bought a craftsman kit?

Mainly for the experience.  I didn't buy the kits for my layout specifically although I'll likely try to use a couple of them on it eventually. 

I've always admired the kits I saw advertised and decided to buy a few to put in a drawer for later.  I wanted to support an MRH sponsor with my purchase and at the time FOS had a special on, so I went with them.

Once I have completed the kits I already have, assuming the experience is a reasonably good one, I would consider buying a kit from any of the sponsors mentioned but any future kits will be chosen based more on specific needs, than on a whim.

I'll be looking for kits to fit a roughly 70's-90's urban/rural prairie setting.  I'll want both foreground structures and background flats.

I wonder which, if any of our sponsors make a farm yard kit with a classic red barn and a two story house?  What about a grain elevator?

Yes, but VERY rarely

This is some interesting market research you are doing Joe!

I own one craftsman kit (and didn't  think of it until Ralph mentioned it above) and that is the Martin's Creek Station that I plan to use as a yard office on my layout.  My reasons for not using them (excepting this one) are a combination of what has already been mentioned above

1.  They don't fit my era/locale (mid 70's NYC)

2.  For the most part I think they are "too cutesy".  Most of them seem to be the same New England clapboard sided mill buildings that are picked more for the character than for a unique or realistic look.  I have a friend with a beautiful, I mean beautiful layout with 30-40 craftsman structures on it that look great but most of them are smaller than the single 40' boxcar that serves them.  You have to really be in to the look of the structures to get past that anomaly I think and I'm simply not there.  I see that Doug Foscale put out a modern kit early last year that I think is interesting as it is a different look from what you see from the rest of that end of the market but I wonder how it sells for him.

3.  They cost too much.  As Scarpia mentioned unless it's something I really want I don't see why I should spend $200+ on a limited run kit.  My suspicion (further affirmed after a conversation with the owner of Stella Scale Models at Amherst) is limited run kits tend to be purchased by the same people year in and year out.  They are at a different of the hobby than I am.  I would like to think of myself as a model railroad operator; I think they would identify themselves more as model builders.  Their joy is building the structures; my joy is creating an environment that "lives" and "works".  Nothing wrong with either and they are by no means mutually exclusive by are at different ends of the spectrum.

~rb

Rich, well said

Like you, Stella's Martins Creek yard office model will eventually find a home on my layout too, even though it's an "incorrect" prototype for the LVRR. It's just too cool of a well produced and easy to put together kit too pass on!

But like you said, I guess the reason they almost all seem to be of a wooden clapboard-style is I guess because in the end, they are made of wood! But laser cutting technology HAS to be able to do other things besides clapboard, as I know Stella uses a lot of styrene and resin in their kits (in fact, the aforementioned yard office is almost 100% a solid resin-type casting!).

And your take on "model builder" as opposed to "model operator" is spot on, but that's because we both are biased that way, I'll admit that. But it is very true regardless of that, if you stop and think about it. Heck, I guess it gives us guys something to admire at NMRA conventions, am I right? To me, I think the whole  "caracatchure" aspect of a full-sized factory building is another thing that as an "operator" (and one who models the "big city" to boot), is what turns me off to them - I just have a problem "believing" that the "typical" craftsman kit industry would actually be found on a real railroad somewhere. I know, there's always that "exception", and you should "never say never". But again, I am speaking from a purely prototype model railroading viewpoint, and that's just one subset of this big hobbby, I realize that.

In the mean time, I think I will check out Doug F.'s modern kit, just for ha-ha's and see just how modern it is, as I am intrigued.
RAH

Craftsman Kits

 Joe:

I have bought and built many kits from Bar Mills and FOS for my own MR as well as reviews. These are both high quality companies withl well thought models and excellent instructions. I am sure that other manufacturers feel the same way about their products. It's just some of the interesting and different kits these two companies provide that keeps me coming back.

Dick Foster

Great feedback - what about these vendors?

Great feedback, but I haven't seen these vendors mentioned ...

-Imagine That
-LaserModeling3
-Paw of a Bear
-RS Laser Kits
-Sidetrack Laser

What would it take for you to be interested in a kit by one of these guys?

SoCar Floater after this statement

So you are Building a 120 foot X 120 foot layout with with a single track running through it and about28 - 4 foot square 20 foot tall buildings to keep the RR to scale so it won't look like a Characterization of the real thing?

Unless your modeling in N scale or Z scale your going to need Gym size building to represent your Concrete Jungle of NY and then not much track still unless your modeling subways. and then only the above ground sections of track will be visible. sorry but you will also be building a cartoon version of your railroad due to the actual space required to build a Model RR,

At a NMRA show 20 years ago a guy built a dock with a cargo Ship in HO the dock was 4-1/2 feet tall 12 foot long and the ship was about 8 foot long it had two Cargo loaders 3 foot tall the whole thing was an exact to scale HO Dock and ship. Is this what your saying you want to build?

Personally I'll stick to the Characterization of actual size to provide more room for operation and visual enjoyment. Who wants to look at a smelly old concrete dock anyway?

Dan

water tower

I've got from a friend a Campbell Water Tower. It was fun!

And I've build a few LaBelle cars for my narrow gauge Silver Valley RR.

Yes, I will buy  a craftsman kit. But first I have to save my money for the Blackstone C-19.  And so long I scratch build.

Wolfgang

Caricatures

Dan sez:

"Personally I'll stick to the Characterization of actual size to provide more room for operation and visual enjoyment."

Depending on what you're doing, sometimes that approach works, but other times not so much.  I have several industries that occupy spaces from 3-6 feet in length on my HO layout.  Some of these are "interesting" from a visual clutter standpoint and others are pretty plain (e.g. prefab concrete and metal).  For certain industries a big boring expanse of wall is exactly what's needed.  More often than not right now, modular or easily kitbashed plastic buildings fulfill such roles in a cost-effective manner.  Some craftsman kit makers are acknowledging this issue, as with the big auto factory from Imagine That Laser Art and the "cube" modular system from GC Laser.  I'd like to see more craftsman kit offerings for modern industries so I can get finer details, especially windows, than are available with the plastic kits.

Since you asked.  From your

Since you asked.  From your list I'd probably eventually get a facade kit from Paw of the Bear and probably going to use some Rusty stumps shingles.

I've never had the time to do justice to a craftsman kit.  Though I do have the following:

from Magnuson:  Burned Out's Warehouse

Freight Station

from Fine Scale Miniatures: Freight Station

from Campbells: Supply Shed

Campbells Supply

Brett's Brewery

Kiowa Junction

from Timberline:  Idaho Springs Mine

from American Model Builders: Springfield Depot

from Historical Miniatures: Ophir Depot

They all came from Ebay.  I paid $120 for the FSM kit and $41 for the Timberline one.  All the others were less.  $200 just seems above my comfort level for a structure kit.

Seems to me people need to rethink their business plans.  There's got to be about a dozen guys with CNC laser cutters cranking out miscellaneous sheds and oddities that are indistinguishable from the other guys.  The SRMW stuff is fabulous if you model New England. George Sellios can sell anything that he produces.  The Sierra West stuff is the epitome of the craftsman kit ideal and the themed approach leads from one kit into another.

Rob hit the nail on the head...............

Instead of trying to infer that I am "slamming" most craftsman-style laser wood kits, Rob has instead correctly ascertained my particular modeling situation and opinion based on my modeling needs. I mean, why would I want to purchase a model of "Uncle Joe's Cariage Works" when there was never a real one (let alone one on the LVRR) and is to boot, if I may use the term without upsetting anyone, a "fanciful" building creation. That's what I mean - It's just not fitting for my needs, but bravo to somebody who DOES like that kind of a model.

And I'd like to also say "thank you" Rob, because I would have never looked deeper into Imagine That or GC Laser's product offerings if you hadn't specifically mentioned them, though I have seen Imagine That's booth at the National Train Show, so I do know what they are capable of. I really like the "cube" system by GC Laser. I still will probably not end up purchasing any, but the fact is they are neat!

RAH

Craftsman Kits

While your general craftsman kit does not fit my era or region (Mid-Willamette Valley Oregon, 2005), I have bought a couple of kits from RS-Laserkits. They only live about 10 miles or so down the road from me, so I see them at all the local swap meets and shows.

While I model HO scale, the kits I bought were Z scale - I will be using them as atmosphere for my "amusment park riding railroad" that is tucked into a corner of my layout - it uses Z scale equipment.

One thing I will say... Z scale was probably the wrong scale to start with in building a craftsman kit. Not only was I having to deal with entirely new modeling techniques, but I was doing it in the smallest scale out there. Not a recipe for instant success.

But I am learning... and Alpine models does have a few warehouse style models such as their recent Orange Vista packing house that look like they have possibilities in my area.

Modern Structures

Ralph "Car Floater" Heiss sez:

"I really like the "cube" system by GC Laser. I still will probably not end up purchasing any, but the fact is they are neat!"

I'm trying to set aside a place to use one or more of these.  It will be a nice break from the typical tributes to Walthers and DPM that our industrial areas all to often become.  Plus I want to show support for a manufacturer for creating a type of kit that fits well with what I'm modeling and that I've been clamoring for (i.e.putting the money where my mouth is).

What would it take for you to

Simply put, they would need to make a product that suits my needs. For example, if one of them created a $200 kit of the CV station in Waterbury VT, I'd probably order one tomorrow. 

I don't, however, expect them to cater to just me.

I hope you won't lose them as advertiser's Joe. I know these are small(er) shops, but they must realize that the value of the advertising dollar goes much further than the immediate sale. Getting your name and product out in front of people is one of the keys for long term success and growth.

This Statement Made me laugh out Loud!

Because it is EXACTLY what my layout is slowly turning into!  I'm looking at the cubes to build a concrete block extension to one of my factories. 

It's far better than having people come over and say "wow, how you repurposed that State Line Farm Supply into your engine house is really cool!" but then again I see the craftsman guys checking out each others layouts and saying the same thing about the craftsman kits they are all using so maybe we are all in the same predicament.

For all of you that think all Craftsmans kits are make believe

Go to the following site called Banta Modelworks. Every one of their Craftsman Kit models in all scales are exact to scale reproductions of Real Structures that once existed and some still exist.  http://www.bantamodelworks.com/

I wish MRH would get them as a sponsor they are a company that reproduce real Buildings and structures that served the RR industry for years. and they make over a hundred Craftsman kits and produce them in "O","S","HO" & "N" scale.

The models I build for my RR are not reduced in size and every angle of them have something of interest to see other than a concrete wall.

For those people modeling present day bland concrete models all the power to you. personally I see these models as the easy way to fill space on a model railroad. I figure if I wanted to see concrete buildings I'll drive through down town. All you city kids need to get out into the other 80% of the country and see just how many of these Character structures do actually exist in the actual size. Most all Craftsmen kits are based on real structures that do or did exist somewhere in the country each one unique and different than the next.

There are many cheep plastic kits that are made up to represent buildings that never really existed. If you do a little searching you'll find Most Craftsman Kit are True to scale copies of real structures and Yes some are general reproductions of many actual older Railroad structures, stations, and shanty's that dotted the country along the RR right-of-way during Railroads Hay days. Now the structures along the RR are the same as the next just a concrete wall with a steal door every few feet that's a tough model to build when it takes longer for the paint to dry than it does to assemble.

Dan

Banta Model Works

I fell in love with the HO mill the moment I saw it. $500 ouch. But what a gorgeous focal point structure it would make. Thanks for the link Dan.

LKO

if you do buy the model I can promise you the finished product will be well worth the money. I have bought a few of his models over the years and have not found many to compare in detail and quality of craftsman ship.

I can't say for a fact but from the other models I've seen by Banta at Railroad shows where he has reproduced a building or structure that I have visited the original, I believe he goes out and measures the original buildings and then builds them as models for the public to buy.

Dan