MikeHughes

I bought this Bachmann Spectrum model of a Fairbanks Morse H-16-44 used on EBay a couple of months ago and it is straight DC.  There is not a lot out there on converting this model other than one post on here that has a few pictures, but not too much detail for someone attempting this without a lot of experience.  I’ll take lots of photos as a I go and do a detailed write up.

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[MRH%20Sig%202]Mike’s Index and Blog
Reply 1
MikeHughes

Disassembly, Frame Work and Base Installation

CPR used FM H-16-44 on Vancouver Island and in the Kootenays on Kootenay and Slocan Lakes.

With Rapido uncertain about producing this model, I keep my eyes open for used ones online in CPR livery.   

I bought this used model on EBay a couple of months ago (for a lot more than the original $26 sales receipt that was in the bottom of the box. Sigh) and accidentally shipped it to the farm.  Now home at the farm for a week, so have started the conversion.

It’s going to get:

  • A Decoder Buddy
  • The biggest speaker I can fit
  • A Soundtraxx TSU-21PNEM with Fairbanks Morse sounds
  • New LED headlamps front and back.
  • A rooftop beacon
  • Ditchlights 

It comes apart very easily by turning it upside down and removing two screws from the fuel tank, one coupler, and the four body screws in the bottom.  

Turning the model over at this point the innards fall right out.  Here is a picture of the inside with the 2 screws in the circuit board removed.  I’ve circled the nubs for these screws in red and will grind them off with my Dremel so they’re not in the way.

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Note the throw away lightboard!  Harvest a PC Tie or two and some diodes perhaps, otherwise, just clutter. 

The frame is reasonably hefty and held together by just three screws.  The frame halves are insulated with black nylon bushings where the screws connect the halves and two white nylon insulators in the fuel tank.  As well, the top of the trucks are accommodated in a recess in the frame and help keep the frame in alignment  

I did some probing with an Ohmmeter before going further.  Lots of potential decoder burnout pitfalls with this model.  While the motor housing ends are plastic and isolate it from the frame (I note broken and missing pieces on my model - at $89 U.S., I paid about $40 too much for this specimen) brass wipers on both brush contacts make contact for electrical pickup from the track and will have to be removed.  I’ve marked where I will nip them with a red line.   This has to be done to both brush holders, although I’ve only shown one side.  The objective is to have no electrical contact between the motor and anything else - it needs to be completely isolated and will get its power solely from the decoder via wire leads soldered to the brush holders. 

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Onto the trucks.

I’m not overly impressed with the brass wipers that make contact from the trucks to the frame. The part on the wheels is ok, but from there on too intermittent for my liking, so I will disassemble the trucks and solder fine wire onto the wipers and run those onto the Decoder Buddy. One could leave them in place I suppose, but then the frame is live and just asking for trouble given the tight quarters and as the contact did not seem that reliable in the first place versus straight to the wheel wipers I could not see the point.

Here I am using a small screwdriver to pry the side frame assembly and free the truck.
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Here, I have soldered a small wire to the truck wiper. NOTE that I took the small screw out and did the soldering with the wiper in an alligator clip.  This material is not pure brass (almost rings like spring steel?) and needs to get quite hot to take solder and I didn’t want to risk melting anything.  It didn’t seem to lose any temper heating it enough to bond solder.  Be careful with the trucks re gears falling out.  This one has enough grease for a Kenworth so everything stayed put.

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Here, an attached and a removed shot with the first wire soldered on before removing the frame wiper (confirming it would hold) and with red lines denoting where I will cut the frame wiper.

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Here, rail nippers cutting off the frame wiper. Eye protection a must.

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The fan housing on my model is an actual screen and I can easily see through it so I’ll mount the speaker forward under that.

Initial observation suggests that there may be enough clearance above the frame below the shell for the decoder and speaker but I will mill off some variability in the surface and some additional clearance for a proper isolation job.  The circuit board in the roof (photo up above a few pics ago) was attached to incandescent bulbs and had diodes for directional control.  This can be removed and discarded as I’ll be replacing the lamps with bright 2mm tower LEDs. 

So back at this today, I took the bare frames out to the shop for some levelling and shaving.  Probably about 30 thousandths as I didn’t want to completely shave the center screw hole.  I already knew things fit so basically just making a bit of room for the double-sided tape.

I bought this mill brand new about 1984 and it is dead true in every possible direction.  The power feed has a blown fuse or something I have to look into, but other than that it’s perfect and has done a lot of great work for me over the years.  It has a battle scar under the vice where one of my daughters decided to use it to drill a hole through some wood and ran the drill bit right through and into the table.  She said she didn't realize she was through and kept cranking.   Thats the thing about the down feed on a mill - it is very strong!  She got the "next time wait till Dad is home to ask and to guide" lecture and a hug.  There was a cheap drill press right next to it with a hole for the drill bit.  Lol. Kids  

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The lathe I bought the same day was always weak in the top slide, and therefore useless for parting off.  I also never really liked the thought of replacing a belt in the headstock if one were to break, so I sold it a few years ago and replaced it with a larger geared-head model that is a lot more robust (although it does suffer from a lack of a super slow speed). It's 12/16 " by 44" if I recall.  I have a little wee variable speed mini-lathe as well, which is all I would ever need for anything up to G Scale.  The lathe and mill are for my 3 1/2” scale live steam aspirations (have castings, but no time. I digress.)

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Here’s the frame with some 6-32 alignment screws, vised up and ready to go.  It doesn't look level, but it is - just camera distortion.  I have it resting on a parallel under the fuel tank block, I actually checked it with a quill mounted dial indicator in a few places and it was within a couple of thousandths  of level where it hits the body shell.  In general, I find N and HO frames to be flimsy for milling, and they can’t be clamped tight without a lot of fuss and bother, so I just take really light cuts (< = 0.005”) and watch for any kind of movement.  

The crew figures where there when I got it.  I have no idea if they are factory delivered or installed by a previous owner.
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This one squared up nice and the mill made short work of shaving 0.030” off.

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Note the porosity in the frame casting.  I would discover later that the frame is actually hollow.  Glad I didn’t decide to chop it an eighth or more.  Lol.  I cleaned up the sharp edges with a file so as to not cut/wear any wires later, and went back to the train room workbench.

If a person doesn’t have access to a mill, there are a bunch of equally useful approaches:

  • A suitable endmill can be bought for ~$5 and used in a drill press, with a decent vice and with or without an X-Y table (which I’ve seen at places like Busy Bee and KMS Tools fairly cheap, but only with very light cuts
  • A Dremel would work.  Actually a Dremel drill press would allow for a nice finish and with a vice, a nice level finish.  Just lower it 1/32” at a time and slide the frame under it on a flat surface on the drill press table. 
  • Another solution is a strong strip sander - they will rip metal off at an incredible pace.  Much cheaper than a mill!  If I didn't care about dead level, I would have just used this:

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Next up, I round off the nubs for the old circuit board very gently and carefully with my Dremel.  You can't see it well from here, but the fan shroud is a fine mesh screen and will let out plenty of sound.

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I test fit everything after soldering wires onto the brush holders on the motor to see where to locate holes for the track pickup wires.  I just realized that I never took a picture of the motor leads.  Basically I just soldered a couple of inches of orange and gray wire to the top and bottom brush holders respectively, and heat-shrinked the end near the motor.  There is room to run the bottom wire up beside the motor and they both fit nicely up between the frame halves. 

I meant to heat shrink the truck leads as well, but forgot, but they don’t appear to need it from my attempts to create a short circuit.

I had to scrub and file this frame a lot as there was a lot of mold inside it.  It came from the Deep South so perhaps it’s not uncommon to find this due to humidity and long-term storage away in boxes, etc.

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Next, I drilled 4 holes for the truck leads with a 1/16” bit in a Dewalt 20 Volt power drill. 

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These battery tools are awesome, have bright LEDs to light up the work, and allow super slow speed control. I started the first hole from the top, and discovered while doing so that this frame is actually hollow.  (Typical of this manufacturer, saving a few pennies and losing tractive effort while they’re at it). I finished it from the bottom, but on my second hole, I had already weakened the bit enough that it snapped off, so some caution is warranted drilling through both layers, or you’ll end up like me with a broken bit stuck in the frame!  It's in there forever as there is nothing to grab onto to pull it - oh well, it adds weight and tractive effort!  

Eventually, owing to the hollow center and the curve in the underside, I drilled the rest of the holes from the bottom towards the top on a square spot.

And here’s everything back together with all the wires carefully routed.  To me, this is a lot nicer than trying to squeeze wires between the frame and the shell.  They’re all safe and out of the way.  I made sure to leave ample wire when I snipped them so the trucks could rotate freely.

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Now, a wee bit of super sticky double sided tape … making a small channel for the motor leads ... which are through a mounting hole in the Decoder Buddy ONLY to hold the Buddy a camera pose!

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And now the Buddy is all safe and secure …

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And here is the progress so far with the Decoder aboard for a test.  All systems go - everything installed so far checked out perfect. Love these Decoder Buddies - they make for quick and very tidy work, and the onboard resistors and removable light board are fabulous.  I cut the rear track pickup wires really short and should have left a bit more length to aid in future truck removal.  As it is now, I will have to unsolder them from the Buddy if I need to remove the truck.  In that event, I'll install longer wires.

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Since I didn't have my laptop  in the train room, I was happy that I was able to do a fair bit of test programming (address, volume, prime mover select, etc.) directly via the Digitrax DT602D Throttle and new DCS240.  I’ll do the harder stuff (flashing ditch lights, beacon and Function Key assignments, individual effect volumes, etc.) with Decoder Pro once I get all the LEDs installed, but glad that Digitrax got it right with the big command station versus the Zephyr I constantly fight with in Vancouver.  It has proven useless in programming anything so I just don't bother.  My dealer said to bring it in so they can try it out as they don't believe the challenges I have with it, so I may take them up on that in the event that it’s got a hardware issue.

Here's a quick video of conversion in action before moving on to tackle the lights.

That’s a Soundtraxx speaker and baffle, but smaller than the 28mm variety I normally try and use, which is too big for this model.  I had this one in my parts bin and it sounds fine - I think it is the 20mm 3/4" job, but I didn't measure it.  I have done a test fit and the shell goes back on just fine and sits level without hitting anything.

Sadly, as you can see in the video, typical of most of the Bachmann stuff I own, this model has some quirks.  It runs very shaky at slow speed making one think the prime mover is missing all but one motor mounts. I think it is lash in the gear train on the front truck, but re-gearing articles so far seem to be hard to find.  It smooths out at about 9% though, so will be fine pulling a train at speed.  I had tested the motor earlier when I had it out of the frame and it ran super smooth on pure DC from my bench supply, so this why I think something is amiss in the worm gear/sprocket chain in the truck.

Digressing for a moment, a bit sad that this is Bachmann’s top end “Spectrum” level model.  IMHO that just means it illustrates the full spectrum of their design and manufacturing processes at the time this model was made.  Maybe they are better now, but I'm a skeptic based on a lot of experience.  I am hopeful that Rapido will produce their planned version of this model as I need a fleet of these as I am contemplating an expansion of my Field to Golden layout to include the next leg to to Revelstoke and then south to the Kootenays in my grand plan.

Like many, I have a love/hate relationship with Bachmann.  My first non-train-set locomotive was a
Bachmann 2-8-0 Consolidation, and I have several of their very nice On30 models - except for those crappy driveline parts of course, LOL.  Ah well, I can fix just about anything.  If anyone knows of a suitable gear train or truck replacement for this model, please do share the information here. 

Next up, lights!

Reply 0
MikeHughes

LIghting Her Up

To come.  I have been distracted with a fairly major move that will gain me some model railroad real estate to expand the B&H at some point.  All my models and tools are packed and being slowly unpacked.  I also have to finish building an 8 x 10 workshop / shed so all the tools that are now jamming my office/bedroom can be liberated.

The B&H made it with zero casualties.  debating whether "dropsville" will survive or just become part of a helix.  I am debating approaches to the whole helix question both location and radius.  I need to keep it tight and am cool with short trains. 

Reply 0
Boudreaux

Some still run

Guess I was one of the lucky ones.

Got my undec.#81201 Bachmann F-M  about 1996 and with minor maintenance ever so often.  Runs as good as most of my high end newer engines.

With just MRC pack and brass track,  It will crawl in my yard as nice as friends DCC units.

For the money,  hope you can come across another unit.  Lots of detail for the 1990's and price,  ($20.00).

Your install info will help my friends in the future.

Boudreaux,  B.C.E.  R.R.

Milwaukee Road unit 410 was painted and decaled with one plastic shell up date.  Exhaust stacks changed out to proto type.

 

Reply 0
Nick Santo amsnick

Whew!

Nice work and fine presentation!  I’m impressed!  The engineer and conductor never broke a sweat too!!!  I wish I had room for those tools.  I’m envious!  
 

Thanks for sharing Mike!  Thanks for the shout out too!

Nick

https://nixtrainz.com/ Home of the Decoder Buddy

Full disclosure: I am the inventor of the Decoder Buddy and I sell it via the link above.

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Shake, rattle, and roll...

Dear Mike,

Quote:

Sadly, typical of most of the Bachmann stuff I own, this model runs very shaky at slow speed. I think it is lash in the gear train on the front truck, but re-gearing articles so far seem to be hard to find. 

...which is because many modellers bypass B'mann, esp this production era of "pot-metal frame + high-mount trucks". (Those "bearing against the bottom of the frame halves" truck pickup plates were a kinda give-away/tell-tale....Ugh...).

FWIW, newer "Spectrum" models, IE the production runs with "DCC Onboard" and "DCC Sound Onboard",
are significantly mechanically-improved, making current-day B'mann a far-more appealing option...
(Just gotta overcome the "reputation damage" from the previous-era's performance limits, see above).

Blueprinting the trucks individually, checking-for and eliminating any degree of slop, binding, or restriction will definitely help. I have seen a number of these era "high-mount" trucks with visibly mis-mated casting-halves, which can render the shaft/bearing holes "dubious"...

...however, the real key to eliminating the "body shake" is recognizing the effect of having the truck<> frame mounting point (the "bolster" so to speak) up soo high,
(compare with an equivalent era Athearn or similar, the truck<> frame "bolster" point is much lower to the ground),

combined with having both truck-screws quite loose ex-factory. This is contrary to the commonly-held "3-point suspension" wisdom, and shows. As a simple test, tighten one only of the truck screws down so the truck cannot swivel (IE the loco can only run on straight-track), then slacken it off just enough that swivel-rotation is regained. The key is allowing "can turn a corner" movement while eliminating "frame rocks independent of truck" movement.

If the resulting unit runs nice(r) on flat-track, but experiences issues when transitioning from flat<> Up/Downgrades, then you may wish to investigate implementing something along the lines of Andy Reichert's "Car stabilisers" http://www.proto87.com/HO_Proto87_car_stabilisers.html

I'm sure you'll get the best out of this conversion, looking forward to the results...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
Mustangok

Workshop and willpower

Are you sure we couldn't just hand you a rectangular block of metal that you would make into a locomotive?

Kent B

Reply 0
MikeHughes

Thanks Professor ...

I will have a go with finessing that truck top mounting screw.  I may also switch the trucks to confirm my suspicions and given that Bachmann is generally really good with parts see if I can just order a new front truck, or cannibalize one from a non-CPR equivalent.

Reply 0
MikeHughes

@Mustang

Lol, beyond milling a frame, and turning some wheels, that would be a tall challenge.

The skill of tool and die makers in our hobby and the injection molds they can create are amazing.  There are entire towns in China devoted to nothing else but injection molding.  I'm convinced they perfected their craft on Happy Meal toys and then took over from the Japanese.  Kato used to hold the crown when I was younger, but the stuff from China on models from Rapido is yet another order of magnitude better.   

Reply 0
Virginian and Lake Erie

Beautiful work on the model.

Beautiful work on the model. If I missed it I am sorry but you made the comment regarding enough grease for a Kenworth regarding the trucks. I did not see anything regarding disassembly and cleaning of the gears and looking for cracks. I have found that some cleaning and relubing lightly makes a huge difference in performance.

Example, a high quality diesel unit HO scale ran poorly out of the box, and would pull about 25 cars. Disassembly, cleaning of the gears, reassembly and very lightly lubricating with labell grease with tft. Doing some other cleaning and lubricating on contacts with Atlas conductalube and some never stall. The unit then ran in a much improved fashion and could pull more than 80 cars up a grade a bit over 2%.

More grease is not better. In some cases some of the grease will solidify and there can be hard chunks in the mechanism. I have found the stuff in models very often to be low quality and excessive.

In looking at your excellent job on the model it seems a little bit of attention to the trucks might solve your issues and make all the previous work much more rewarding.

I hope this is helpful.

Reply 0
MikeHughes

@Rob and @Professor

Great advice,

I tried both cleaning the gears (but not with a total cleaning in a submersible bath - that will happen later when time permits) and re-lubing with Labelle 102 and  also “optimizing” the tightness on the top screws.  Both techniques yielded very favourable results.  The loco is now smooth at 3% (versus 9% before) and much better at 1%.

Thank you both for the suggestions.

I am now back in Vancouver and  brought it with me to finish here, along with the FB1 still waiting, and installing the replacement light boards Rapido sent me to remedy non-working gyralights and ditch lights on my RDC units.  That looks like a finicky job, but I like a challenge, and will document. 
 

And I have acquired three more of these as used models, so lots to do.

Reply 0
bobmorning

Can you recommend an endmill for a drill press alternative

Not have the space for a mill and I have been thinking for a while how to repurpose the decent drill press I have into something that can do basic milling.

Do you have any recommendations?  A URL link would be most appreciated!

 

Bob M.

Modeling the Western Maryland in the 1980's at http://wmrwy.com

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Reply 0
barr_ceo

Need to go the other way...

You're better off using a milling machine to double as a drill press than you will be using a drill press as a milling machine. The bearings in a drill press are not designed for side loads like you get when cutting a slot with a mill. If you only have space for one, sell the drill press and buy a milling machine.

 

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Reply 1
MikeHughes

@Bob re Endmill

Hi Bob,

Grizzly  imports is a great place to pick up endmills and metal working machine tools in general.  Here is a link  to a very economical  Endmill and another link to their vast selection of  Milling Machines

Four-flute endmills are not generally for drilling, only "shaving".  If you want to be able to drill down and then cut a slot, get the two fluted slot drills instead.  Not quite as smooth a finish, but more versatile.

Re barr ceo’s comment, technically, he is VERY right as the bearings in a mill are of a different type optimized for side loads, plus the risk of the chuck coming off taper noted below in red.  While a sturdy drill press can still take light side loads, I would limit your depth of cut to five thousandths of an inch or less, which is about all you want to be doing with flimsy locomotive frames anyways. These things are not made of meonite, cast iron, solid brass, solid aluminum, or steel.  The big risk with using a drill press as a mill is the drill chuck just falling out and ruining the job, and possibly worse, spinning a razor sharp cutter into your person!  A mill has a bolt into the chuck mount so it can't fall out.  Side loads contribute to the risk.  If you have ever popped a drill press chuck out of the arbor, you will see that it is only held in by friction.  A drill press works well on straight down jobs becuase then the load is pushing the chuck up onto its mount.  Put a side load on it and all bests are off.

You’ll need an X-Y Cross-slide vise as well - I would not advise trying to hold any milling job by hand.  The other issue with a drill press of course is figuring out how to raise the table in very small increments.  The simplest way is to deploy a magnetic holder and a dial indicator on the body of the drill press, registered against the table.  If your drill press doesn't have a vertical raise/lower mechanism on a crank (super small ones often don't) then this will be a non-starter.   

If you have the funds, then a small mill with an R-8 taper is a fabulous lifelong investment and includes a far more accurate table than you’ll ever get with a cross-slide vise, as well as a precise way of controlling depth, but you’ll also need a work-holding vice .    I prefer the R-8 taper in a mill, but MT is fine to.  I would recommend a Collet Set for more accurate work if you are going to be doing a lot of milling.  Much easier than swapping things out of the drawbar with every endmill change.

These Combo Mill-Drill machines are also likely ok for small work, but I don’t have any personal experience with them personally as they were far two small for what I was contemplating building when I equipped my first tool room.

They must be K though, because one of the finest metal craftsmen on earth, Kozoko Hiraoko, has written some of the best projects in Live Steam and I believe does all of his work on an Emco 7 combo machine (I've no idea if these are available in the U.S.)  His articles have been turned into books and are fabulous (Shay, Climax, Heisler, Pennsy A3, etc.)   Reading any of his books will teach anyone a monumental amount re fabricating and machining metal.

I was very fortunate as a young man that my Bride had befriended, through their weekly visits to her hobby store to get lottery tickets, a very fine English Toolmaker and his wife who taught me a great deal about metal and machining before he passed away.  He ran the main training school in London during WWII and trained hundreds of ladies (including one who became his bride) to machine weapons and munitions parts during the war.  His work was exquisite and often to tolerances of 0.0001”.  We often enjoyed tea and scones and stories of the war and his learning of his trade from the age of 13 onwards (as a child labourer) with them after a session of learning in Geoffrey’s tool room.  RIP Geoffrey and Marie Tuck.

Caution advised re machine tools: if you think you spend money on trains, you haven’t seen anything yet, and if you have to hide model RR purchases from a spouse, these are much harder to sneak in!  Thankfully, my Bride loves my hobbies!

I would budget as much for accessories (collets, vice, end mills, etc. as you do for the main machine too, bringing us back to your original question: buy a cross-slide vice and a couple of cheap endmills and see if that will meet your needs.  The cross-slide vice is super handy, even for drilling wood.  I have one on my big drill press most of the time to remove the need to cheat hand-holding a regular vice when needing to adjust a drilling job. I only use my mill for drilling when super precise layout of holes is required, simply because I loathe all the work removing the R-8 collet holder to install a chuck.

The only thing I yet covet is a Surface grinder.  Geoffrey’s was available to me when he passed away, but at the time, I was about 24 and I just didn’t have $1,500 to spare.  Lol, look at the price now, and I just know I’d end up getting a bigger one, and then there is another few hundred for a magnetic vice!  Come to think of it, a surface grinder would have been an awesome way to shave a few thou off that H-16-44!

Reply 0
Nick Santo amsnick

Although not as elegant

a number of people use a 1” belt sander with a pair of gloves to keep their hands from getting burned.  I’ve seen this method on the internet as well as in professional installation shops.  I think if you look up through Mike’s pictures in this post, there is one above too. 

Nick

https://nixtrainz.com/ Home of the Decoder Buddy

Full disclosure: I am the inventor of the Decoder Buddy and I sell it via the link above.

Reply 0
MikeHughes

@nick

Yes indeed, I am a big fan of the strip sander - it is easier, and a lot cheaper than a milling machine.  That said, one needs to be very light on the touch and cautious to get in any tight places with one.

Caution re gloves and sleeves [ and long hair as pointed out by Kregan below] though - caution around any power tool,  If the glove gets caught, your hand gets dragged in with it.  Losing a minor bit of hide is infinitely preferable to losing a finger, hand (or an arm, or your life with bigger machines, like lathes).  Now perhaps, not all that risky/dangerous with a strip sander, but I prefer to just be very careful and gloves interfere with "feeling the job":  If it's too hot for my fingers to hold, it's getting warm enough to affect the metal's properties as well. 

I was taught young that any kind of clothing on the arms or hands around a lathe was an especially bad idea.  The average lathe has similar torque ratings to a PTO on a tractor.  My toolmaker friend learned this the worst way as a youngster around a very big belt drive lathe before there was any real training provided to young child workers.  His right arm had a noticeable bend in it from being dragged into a chuck by the sleeve on a shop coat. If a colleague hadn't seen what was happening and clutched the belt, he'd have been killed. These were very large lathes. 

He told me they were planning to amputate it until the surgeon found out his profession and said, "well, we can't have any one-armed toolmakers, now can we" and did the right thing and fixed him up - giving him the opportunity to become one of the real masters of his craft and a serious aid to the war effort.  In addition to all the ladies he trained (somewhere if I can ever locate it, I must still have his course - five exercises on a lathe - mastery of which equips you for virtually any job). 

He had a fine old wooden box full of "treasures", he used to show us.  One was a reject of a triple-start screw he made for an allied sonar during the war.  It was out 0.0001" so he remade it, and brought this "failure" home in his lunchbox.  Lol.  About half a turn would move it a good foot. I have yet to master even the double start thread, but they are indeed very cool to see in use.

I digress ... to this day, I work in T-Shirts, bare arms and hands, unless I'm welding or using the plasma arc cuttter, and then a lot of leather gets donned.

I was taught many things by my toolmaker master around hand sharpening drill bits and frequent quenching was the norm.  It was amazing to learn from the guy - he could tell from a spark on a grinder the Rockwell hardness of a piece of metal and often told me stories about how some things were a lost art.

Following on this statement - open question - who makes the hardest steel on earth?  I know because he told me.  Does anyone else?  You probably can't guess  this one and you will be astonished.

Reply 0
Nick Santo amsnick

Hi Mike, Thanks!

My Dad was a tool and die maker and an experimental machinist.  He built machines that made capacitors that went to the moon and returned.  Many times I have wished that I could have been with him at work.  

Your digression is appreciated!  Thank You for sharing and giving me more insights!

Nick

https://nixtrainz.com/ Home of the Decoder Buddy

Full disclosure: I am the inventor of the Decoder Buddy and I sell it via the link above.

Reply 0
MikeHughes

@ Nick

A set of dies for turning blanks into Capacitor shells, especially in small sizes would be very interesting!  That's precision work.

Geoffrey used to talk about the various places he made machines and dies, etc.  He worked for Autowrappers for quite a while.  If you've ever wondered how they wrap Wriggly's spearment stick gum, that shiny foil and the individual sleeves and the overall package all get put on by machines that Geoffrey would have contributed to designing and making.

He also worked at Carter Carburetor.  He had a set of all 13 well worn dies that were used to gradually punch the spigot that the fuel hose fits over.  That part with the bulbous end that the clamp goes on behind. 

And then there were the molds for the plastic that surrounds the CRT on RCA TV's - he worked there to. 

He had so many stories.  I really miss him.  My first ride behind a live steamer was a Simplex that he had built.  My Bride and I have the picture on our family wall, on a trestle track in his back yard that we used to test it with him.

Sadly, he never did share the secret of making the "captive nut" he had made that was in his treasure chest.  Some people use camoflauged two piece trickery to make these.  His was a 2" diameter head bolt and a 1" shaft, cut from a single piece of brass hexagonal rod. All he would tell me was the trick was the making of a super hardened double edge cutter to bore the threads of the screw and the captive nut at once, and the job had to be done somewhat by hand with a slipping belt by hand, not under fully coupled power. 

He may have been pulling my leg. Hard to say, but if anyone could do it it would have been him.  I asked how  repeatedly and his typical reply, rendered with his typical British whit, always over tea and scones, all 4' 8" of him, was something to the effect of, "some things the master does not pass on to the apprentice.  They only show the result, and the apprentice must figure out how to produce it as a part of the right of passage to mastery".   Sadly, he passed before I could ever try to make one (out of brass of course, wood would be far to easy he said) and get stuck and seek out his help. 

Of course, in about 1983, Youtube was still a dream:

.  Maybe he just tricked me.

Reply 0
Kelly kregan

Please head the warning about

Please head the warning about gloves, long sleeves, and long hair around power tools be it hand held or large machine.

Reply 0
MikeHughes

Have acquired a small mill for decoder work

@Bob Morgan you had asked about these a while ago.

Busy Bee (Canada’s Grizzly) has a sale on and I’ve been procrastinating long enough. I’ve wanted a little mill to go with my little lathe for a while and being on sale for $999 Cdn, and in stock, i took the plunge yesterday.

I’ve discovered I enjoy doing decoder work and with always acquiring used DC locos, it will be very handy. Half of an HO H-16-44 locomotive frame is on the table for scale. I put it on a DeWalt mobile planer stand, and am hopeful the matching 7x12 lathe will fit on the other side of the mill.  This way I’ll have a full function portable machine shop.

48C3A0F.jpeg 

Still removing shipping grease, oiling and dialing it in, so I haven’t cut anything with it yet.  Soon!
 

Reply 0
MikeHughes

@Bobmorning

Not sure if you read my anwer to your question about endmills a few posts above, but I found this very handy list of “equivalent” micro milling machines on  Little Machine Shop.  

  • Bolton XJ-9510 Mill/Drill
  • Clarke CMD300 Milling Drilling Machine
  • Grizzly G8689 Mini Milling Machine
  • Hare & Forbes HM-10 Mill/Drill
  • Princess Auto 8507667 Powerfist Mini Mill
  • SIEG X2-MT3 Mini Mill
  • Micro-Mark 82573 MicroLux Milling Machine
  • BusyBee CX605 Craftex Mini Mill
  • Cummins (Tools Now) 7877 Mini Mill
  • Eastwood 32498 Mini Mill
  • Harbor Freight 44991 Central Machinery Mill/Drill
  • Homier 03947 Speedway Mini Mill
  • Northern Tool 49657 KLUTCH Mini Mill
  • Penn Tool Co XJ-9510-1 Precise Mini Mill
  • SIEG X2-R8 Mini Mill
  • Travers Tools OT2213 OTMT Mini Mill
  • SIEG X2P Mini Mill
  • LittleMachineShop.com 4962 SIEG Mini Mill
  • SIEG X2D Mini Mill
  • SIEG X2L Mini Mill
  • WEN 33013 WEN Mini Mill
  • BusyBee CX705 Craftex Lathe Mill Combo
  • Grizzly G0516 Lathe Mill Combo
  • SIEG M6 Multi-purpose Machine

They carry quite a selection of mills, accessories and add on parts. 

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Proxxon MF70?

Dear Mike, Bob,

Mike, that's a pretty extensive list, you may also want to add the Proxxon MF70...

https://www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/27110.php

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Seriously considering a mini mill after picking up a fleet of Tichy flatcars for a fleet conversion project,
and finding the guide articles reccomend a mill for repeatable deck-component mods...
(surely the concerns about side-loading the bearings on a drill-press or Dremel in "milling" tasks evaporate when the material being milled is styrene?)

Reply 0
barr_ceo

Yes, you should be able to

Yes, you should be able to "mill" polystyrene on a drill press without issue...  you'll still need a feed table though, and you'll want to keep the speed low... probably as low as the press will manage. You don't  want to risk melting the plastic, then having it seize on the tool and fling your part across the room.

Read my Journal / Blog...

!BARR_LO.GIF Freelanced N scale Class I   Digitrax & JMRI

 NRail  T-Trak Standards  T-Trak Wiki    My T-Trak Wiki Pages

Reply 0
MikeHughes

@Professor, Re the Proxxon ...

The Proxxon is a completely different machine, and it may be fine for it's intended purpose, but it isn't compatible with the list of machines provided.  

The list I provided is a compatability chart for an aftermarket belt drive for a series of virtually identical models of small milling machines, ALL of which are more or less identical and manufactured by Sieg, but white-labelled under a bunch of different names.  

My own is a Craftex CX605 sold in Canada by Busy Bee Machine Tools.  About all that differs on any of these is the colour of the paint.  The original Siegs are Red. Princess Auto sold them at one time and they were a great deal there.

The Proxxon is more like a Dremel with an X-Y table and with a minimum spindle speed of 5,000 RPM, more suited to engraving, but way too fast for milling.  I can't see an endmill lasting more than a few seconds at that speed.  I doubt I have ever had any of my mills over 200 RPM.  Big industrial CNC machines go faster but they are massively strong and costing $100,000 or more with analgous costs in tooling.  

The Proxxon seems to me to be far too fast for styrene.  I suspect it will melt more than it cuts - just like a Dremel does at higher speeds.

I think if I had a Proxxon, I'd either put a speed controller in it that goes to zero, or put an AC rheostat on the power supply to drop the minimum RPM to 30 or so.  Google being my friend, I found this article re modifications to the onboard motor control circuit for regulating the speed of the Proxxon MF70 down to about 100 RPM:  Proxxon Speed Controller

As well, I think the table travel on the MF70 is severely limiting.  Here are the specs:

  • Speed : 5,000 - 20,000rpm ; Volts : 110 - 120V AC, 60Hz
  • Table Size : 7 7/8" x 2 3/4" (200 x 70mm) ; X-Y Travel : 5 17/64" and 1 13/16" (134 and 46mm)
  • With X-Y travel, 5-17/64-Inch and 1-13/16-Inch vertical travel 2-3/4-Inch
  • Vertical Travel : 2 3/4" (70mm) ; Footprint Size : 5 7/64" x 8 55/64" (130 x 225mm)
  • Height : 13 25/64" (340mm) ; Weight : 15.5 lb (7kg)
  • Max. Power : 1/8hp (100W)
  • ~$500 Cdn

Contrast this with the Sieg and clones:

  • Motor: 1/2 HP, 110-V, 4.5 Amp
    Drilling Capacity: 1/2" (13mm)
    End Mill Capacity: 5/8” (16mm)
    Face Mill Capacity: 1-1/8” (30mm)
    Spindle Taper: R8
    Head Tilt: + - 45 Degree
    Number of Spindle Speeds: Variable
    Range of Spindle Speeds: Low: 0 – 1100 RPM, High:0 - 2500 RPM
    Max. Table Longitudinal Travel: 8-1/2” (220mm)
    Max. Table Cross Travel: 4” (100mm)
    Maximum Spindle Travel: 7" (180mm)
    Number of T-Slots: 3
    Net Weight (approx): 50 Kg
    Warranty: 3-Years
  • ~$1,000 Cdn
Reply 0
MikeHughes

Mini-Milling machine posting moved

Movd over here:  Model Railroad Hobbyiest Machine Tool thread. 

Reply 0
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