N scale Option

This image is a possible N scale option. Same room and benchwork layout. It is based on The BTR rr that MR mag published way back and is designed for a HO 5' x 9' table. I put it on the peninsula in the bottom center. It is about 3' x 5.5'. I have laid out the track and it fits pretty well it seems before laying it for real. The idea is that where the 2 lines coming off the plan near the bottom center, will eventually work their way around to the door. 

There would always be a loop available for rail fanning.

 So I'm looking for ideas, thoughts or whatever on either possibility.

At this point the thought of trying another lift out or swing bridge seems pretty frustrating. So what all do you think?

Jack 

If seasonal changes were the only real issue ...

Then I’d just build your door bridge(s) out of something less subject to variation. Aluminum perhaps.  A wide enough C-Channel, or 1/4” plate plus 1/4” thick side rails to protect trains.

Or use wood but leave more clearance and make adjustable joining track sections. 

Anything seems like a lot less work/cost than starting over or switching scales. 

Maybe another option is either remove the door or change the hinges and have it open outwards and just have a duckunder. That could get you a bunch more space as well.

Connecting bridges; use aluminium tube

.

I have done one for a friend with a double track.

This bridge was necessary to go from  one room to an other and was placed in a 45° angle traversing the door entry and reaching  the opposite part of the layout l in the other room.

His original one was a sturdy piece of plywood assembly but has several issues about track laying adjustment  probably because of the 45° angle  and the nature of wood

The one I build was done using a rectangular tube of aluminium, the double  track was glued in place using caulk glue and safety side added.

The two approach on each part of the layout where also done in aluminium with a pin connecting sytem for the bridge, power was provided by a connector and the two approach side track where protected by a contact switch which cut current over 40 cm from the approach.

It take less than a good minute to put the bridge in place

The metal bridge and his approach where very durable because I build them in a same assembly and because the nature of the aluminium the assembly has never need any adjustment again.

Since these kind of bridge need to be moved often, I think the aluminium approach is a good way because it very stable and durable.

I will use a similar system for my layout because I want the possibility to have continuous running all over the room for my N scale layout.

One long bridge is also in mind crossing my fictitious Maclau river and for stability and rigidity because of the planned 4' length  the longitudinal body will use a square aluminium tube clothed with ME bridge parts.

This was already often used by several modelers and there was a article about this use in MR by Tony Koester

Just an idea

Flexible bridge?

Seasonal changes are more likely to be in the layout and perhaps even the room itself than in the bridge, simply because those are dimensionally longer than the bridge.

One possibly way of dealing with that might be a flexible bridge, designed with the track on a curve.  A flexible bridge could be made with a spine of relatively thin plywood under the track centerline with ribs attached to it and perhaps foam between the ribs to make a flat deck for the flextrack but allow the whole assembly to change radius a bit.  If you clamp both ends to the layout, the middle will flex to fit the space.  I’ve never tried it, I don’t know if it would work in practice.  But if you’re otherwise satisfied with your current layout and scale, it’s easier to try than a rebuild.

On the other hand if you’re looking for an excuse to try N scale and aren’t all that happy with your current layout anyway, go for it!

Continuous run, no bridges

I doubt I am telling you anything you haven't seen before, but the examples at this link provide for continuous running without bridges across a doorway; if those are the main issues. 

https://www.layoutvision.com/why-waste-the-space-on-a-4x8

Applicable to HO or N.

Check out Ken Patterson

On his What's Neat monthly videos through MRH . I started to watch these as I was recently recovering from some surgery. In a couple of episodes he makes a removable bridge using magnets to hold them in place, I don't recall the episodes, but he has an index on his website that you can look up this information.

Espee over Donner

Thankyou

There are some good ideas here which is why I asked. My wife just asked if I had any reason to go to Menards. So The answer is yes, so I will check out their aluminum tubing.

Magnet bridge sounds interesting.

Ken I tried the flex idea on a previous layout and part of the issue is the track itself and how much it can expand.

I'll keep this thread updated with how this plays out.

Jack

Wood movement

Jack

Seasonal wood movement will always affect solid lumber more than manufactured products such as plywood or MDF.  However, as MDF is heavy and prone to soaking up water if not heavily protected.   For those reasons I tend to avoid using MDF on my layout.

Plywood tends to be the most stable and can be laminated into multiple thicknesses to produce quite strong beams that are still relatively light.  I have one of these laminated beams as lift out on my layout and have had zero movement in the five years it has been up.

Some have suggested using aluminium tube or plate.  Another idea is to go to your local aluminium joinery shop and ask for an off cut of door stile.  All fabricators will have an off cut bin that they will either give you a piece or sell to you for scrap value. If you ask nicely they may also cut it to exact length and angles required ,  Conversely aluminium profiles can be cut quite safely on any drop saw so long as one end is well clamped.  (I used to own a joinery shop).    You end up with an ideal size rigid beam that you can then screw ( 5mm {3/16"} thread tap is ideal) a sub road bed to.  

By cutting large dovetails on either end of the lift out you can have a perfect and repeatable join at each end.

If you have a look at my blog you can see the two lift outs I made here:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/the-redwood-sub-12202602

Peter

Took a look at your blog and the lift outs. I have some excess 1/2" plywood and with any luck, patience and some planning should be able to do something similar.

Thanks, Jack

Lift Out Made

The lift out came out pretty good. I made that shortly after the last post in May. I picked up a piece of steel angle. Looks to be 1 1/4' wide on each side and is 3' long. Put that in place and slid the lift out back in place. Works pretty well.

I had pulled it out about a week ago as it was becoming a bit irritating to crawl under it. At 70 yrs old I consider that a miracle that I still could!!!

Lift out has 2 layers of 1/2" plywood and the top is some stuff called Insulboard Siding. Something like that. The only place I have seen it is Menards. Around $12.00 for a 4x8. Similar to homosote, but doesn't seem to have the warping issues. Holds spikes and track nails really well.

Down side to the whole thing is that when I slid it back in place the track ends on one end were about a 1/16" too long. Not an issue yet as I was able to pull a couple of spikes and put a bit more bend into the 4' of track leading up to it on the same side. Room temp difference the cause???? The room next to it has about a 4 degree temp swing in 24 hrs. I put a thermometer in there to see what happens over the next few days. Humidity is steady since we have the AC on 24hrs a day at this point.

Going to be a 3-4 month test to see how all this goes in the long or short run.

Jack

Other Solutions

2 ideas put forth earlier were to use adjustable or a few different track sections that can be swapped out as the track adjusts to temp swings. A very definite possibility and one I am considering.

The other was to use a couple of balloon loops at each end instead of a lift out. Yeah maybe. Makes for a pretty long reach in, crawl in duck up into an access hole, and some extensive benchwork rebuilding. Min curve radius is set at 22"R because I have a MDC 2-8-0 which I enjoy running and because it is a simple mechanical design is probably the most dependable loco I have.

Jack

Jackh, all plywood is not the

Jackh, all plywood is not the same. Some is more stable than others. If you are talking CD grade or some other sheathing grade you will find that voids are allowed in the veneers used. For something as important as your bridge I would consider using Baltic Birch or a hardwood like oak or maple veneer plywood which has more plys and no voids. Many woodworkers use Baltic Birch to make jigs for cutting or assembling furniture because it is so stable. After building the bridge sealing it before putting on track or hardware will help with reducing moisture fluctuations.

Hope this is helpful.

Lift out problems

  Hi Jack,  I started with lift out sections but after using them a while I switched to hinged lift up bridges, one across my room entrance and another where a branch line diverges across an aisle. Mine hinge upward and are secured in the upright position with magnetic door latches so it's easy to raise them for room access and lower them to run trains. I find them  trouble free, they are located on straight sections of track so a bit of expansion /contraction doesn't matter much, the seasonal changes are so small that the train wheels have no problem running over the gaps. My lift up bridges are about 30 inches long by 8 inches wide, topped with 1/2 inch plywood and framed with 1 by 3 pine. I power the lift up sections with flexible wire on the hinged end. There are photos of them in my CCT in S scale blog....DaveB

Plywood and Gates

The plywood is a pretty decent grade. We bought it almost 6 years ago to use as a work bench for my wife's craft stuff. It needed another home so I used some of it for the layout and some more for the lift gate. It is stained on most of it's surface and what little there is could use a coat of something too.

Using a hinge is still a possibility.

Jack

Flip the door !

Sorry did not read the whole thread but at a first glance no one suggested flipping the door, so it opens out.

Most people do not consider this option, despite it being there in plain sight and solving a dozen problems.

Yes, someone might complain that it's "backwards", but the door is not going to be used for major traffic, and even then it's not an issue, so whether it opens in our out is irrelevant.

It could be a DIY project for a day, and takes no materials, just couple of tools at hand.

If it can be flipped,

Then it can be restored when you move out.  No biggie.  Flipping a door can be done the hard way, by cutting new hinge recesses, new latch recess, and re-hanging the door, or the easy way - remove the trim, pull or cut the hardware holding the door frame in place, reversing the whole thing, then re-mounting it.  Not a trivial job, but hey, if I can do it, most thumb-fingered people can.

But it really depends on what's beyond the door, doesn't it.  If flipping the door puts it into the 'active space' at the top or bottom of a stairwell, it's probably a bad move.  If, on the other hand, you can swing the door out so it nestles against a blank wall, it's a great solution.

Blair

Flipping the Door

There is no longer space for the door to open to the outside of the room. It's a very short hallway and has shelves on one wall that would definitely get in the way. I would take a picture except that it is pretty typical of what my wife and mother in law have requested to be able to display their stuff. There are shelves every where and stuff displayed on just about any flat surface. So moving the shelves to some other spot is out because there is no other spot left. And yes I have asked them to thin it out. Not happening.

It is part of the reason why I put up all the benchwork. Laying claim to the train room.

BUT Thanks for the suggestion because when I read these 2 comments I realized that if need be in the future I can take the door off and stuff it into the back of a closet when no one is around to catch me doing it.

Jack

Barn door

I would recommend removing the door and hinges to use with some sliding door hardware along the face of the wall - like a barn door. You will need to leave a couple inches behind the layout to open the door. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/Smartxchoices-Sliding-Hardware-Single-Stopper/dp/B07ZTDY3YS/ref=asc_df_B07ZTDY3YS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416925992790&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7556757326519524612&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032751&hvtargid=pla-903039814961&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=94306392632&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416925992790&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7556757326519524612&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032751&hvtargid=pla-903039814961

Barn Door

Thanks Neil. I don't really need a door on the room. It came with one so it's there. Unless I need to access the tail track I put up behind it I don't have a reason to move it.

Ok short subject change here.

I tried making a new post/new topic and even tried to edit this one. Couldn't do it. Clicking into the subject line didn't work. I suspect I filled up the allowable number of posts I can make, so need to clean out the cache or the number of titles that are stored up under my name.

Used to be a paint brush that did this and now there isn't. So how is it done or is it something else???

I'm surprised I could do this post. It is the 2nd time this week.

Thanks,  Jack