For Starters...Space & Track plan

The space I have to work with for my new layout is roughly 23' long, 10.5' wide on the left side, and 13' wide on the right side.  Here's what it looks like from both ends.

A number of months ago, many of you provided great input as I designed my track plan for the new Pokey 3.0.  I've made a few minor tweaks to that plan since then, but nothing major.  

The layout as designed has four decks:  a lower staging deck, main deck, upper deck, and valence staging deck. 

For the benefit of those who might not have seen the plan, here it is again.  I  hope this will put things into perspective for you as construction progresses.

Lower staging deck:

Main deck:

Upper deck:

 Valence staging deck:

And So It Begins...Deck Heights

In a few weeks we are going to be putting new carpet in the basement, which includes the railroad room, so I'm somewhat limited as to what I can do right now.  But eager to get started, I've begun to attach the mounting blocks on the wall that the support joists will be connected to.

There will be more support blocks mounted on the far wall.  Prior to mounting those I was going to draw a level line for the upper deck location, when I realized the deck height I had planned wasn't to my liking.

To fix that I adjusted the track elevations on the the left side of the main deck mainline. This allowed me to raise the helix that leads to the upper deck slightly, and place the upper deck at a level that was more to my liking.

With those revisions my planned deck heights are now:

Lower staging deck:  22" from floor

Main deck: 39" from floor

Upper deck: 56" from floor.

I'm still debating about the height of the valence staging deck, but right now I have it set at 74.5" from the floor. 

These deck heights are probably a little lower than what most people use, but I'm only 5'6", and found on my last layout, these heights worked well for me.  Some of my taller friends who are over 6' may not particularly like them, but no one ever complained when they came over for an op session.  So, either they were just being polite, or the deck heights were workable for them as well. 

Looking forward to it!

Congratulations Paul on the new start! Remember what went on with the previous layout, I am going to follow this with a lot of interest (I still remember the nice helix with viewports!). The trackplan looks like it provides nice scenic variety and ops.

Thanks for posting!

Yannis

YeeHaw!!!! The Pokey rides again!

Paul, 

Both the space and the plan looks fantastic. It's a real breath of fresh air to see you starting a new adventure that we all know will be another beauty of a layout.

No Being "Pokey" Anymore...!

Great to see you back here Paul.  Am very much looking forward to the new build.  And I must say I don't recall seeing that style of benchwork anchoring before.  Most all I've seen use a ledger board attached to the wall(s) as opposed to your blocks system.  Other than the savings on lumber, is there an advantage to this?

Software

Paul, what CAD program are you using.  Is it Cadrail?

Glad You're Back

Paul,

I was beginning to wonder what was happening. I'm glad to see the Pokey is coming back and I'm looking forward to the progress. 

Don Trettel

Replys

Thanks for all the well wishes everyone! It's great to start a new layout knowing others are already cheering you on for success!  

Jeff - You asked about my mounting system. On the Pokey 2.0 I used an L girder mounted to the wall, and had joists mounted on top of it. For this layout my initial plan was to have everything cantilevered off the wall.  I was going to use aluminum angle brackets on the wall to accomplish that, since I thought that would be more sturdy.  Currently that's what I'm planning to do for the upper deck and valence staging deck.

Since the main deck and lower staging deck are able to be supported by legs on the aisle side though, I decided aluminum brackets wouldn't be necessary.  The idea for using 2x2 blocks came from an article I read by Charlie Comstock about spline roadbed.  His system looked simple and best of all, inexpensive. So, I decided to give it a try. 

Neil - All three of my Pokey layouts were designed using XTrackCAD planning software.  I started using that since it was a free download.  It takes a little getting used to, and probably isn't as sophisticated as other software you can buy, but it meets my needs, and I've been very happy with the results it helps me achieve.

Great to see the first steps to the physical Pokey 3.0

Paul,

Great to see you're taking the first steps to the realization of the Pokey 3.0 in the real world. The back and forth we did on your plan helped me finalize my dream plan (Chesapeake Western & Kankakee) in XtrackCAD, write up the background research and operational portions and get it published in Running Extra. It kept me busy while you were remodelling in your new house. Part 2 of the article is coming November 2020, part 1 was in the October 2020 edition (https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/running-extra/2020-10/cw-k) and mentions your design thread for inspiration.

I'll be following along this build thread for sure!

Great news, Paul! Let me know

Great news, Paul! Let me know if you could use a hand.

@ Yaron

Well I'll be! Glad to hear the inspiration you gave me for my layout rebounded to help you with the design of your own layout.  What could be better than that? 

Maybe we'll be posting construction updates together as the layouts progress! Wouldn't that be cool?

@ Milt

My layout is no where near as big as yours, so it's a little easier for one guy to tackle.  But your offer is deeply appreciated. I'll keep it in mind for future reference.

I'm looking forward to the next time I have the chance to come to your place for an op session and see the improvements you've been making as we weather out the pandemic!  It's been a long time since I've been able to run trains, and I'm having serious withdrawal symptoms! 

Construction Considerations

As I wait for our new carpet to arrive, I continue to debate a construction question I've been wrestling with for a long time now.

On my past layouts, I always used plywood subroadbed with cork roadbed under the track.  The problem I see with that for this layout is that the layout shape doesn't seem conducive to that.  It looks like a lot of sheets would be required, with quite a bit of waste. Besides that, the cost of good plywood sheets seems to have gone up quite a bit since I built the benchwork on my last layout 5 years ago. 

Given that, I've been considering masonite splines for this layout, using 1/4" masonite ripped into 3/4" wide sections. I've read splines make for some quiet track work, have virtually no waste, and it appears would be cheaper. If I rip 45 degree angled splines for the sides for the ballast shoulders, I can mount the track right on the splines a la Joe Fugate's Siskiyou RR and forgo using cork roadbed as well.

Another advantage I see is that the upper deck and valence deck will have cantilevered supports.  I think using spline roadbed would be a lot lighter than the plywood, and put less downward stress on the brackets.  

If any of you have some wise words of wisdom to share with me as I make my final decision, your advice would be greatly appreciated. 

Paul

Glad you are back at it. You have a good plan and based on past write ups you definitely enjoy modeling the Pokey. Where in Minnesota are you located now?

While I have not done the spline roadbed at home I think it a better use of the resources as plywood has definitely climbed in prices. You need a good table saw, nice straight lumber ( I prefer pine over Masonite) to cut and a good partner. Have fun. 
 

Tom in Wisconsin

@ Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the input.  You obviously favor spline over plywood for all the same reasons I've been thinking about.  I'm curious about your choice to use pine over Masonite though.  What prompted that decision?  I haven't priced pine, but I thought Masonite would be the cheaper option, without any drawbacks that I can think of. 

As for location, I used to be located about 30 miles West of Minneapolis.  Now I'm about 15 miles south of Minneapolis. Thankfully it wasn't too drastic of a location change, so I can keep in touch with all my Minneapolis railroad buddies.

Pine

Paul, I belonged to a club many moons ago and the old guys then (probably my age now) didn’t want all the Masonite dust flying around. The club had a great table saw and 1x6 pine was easy to handle, cheap and straight back in the 80’s. It was easy to slice up and glue together with just a few screws to hold the splines together. We did use cork though for the road bed glued to the spline. Very little sanding was needed to get the top level.
 

I also was with a group of guys not a club in Central Wisconsin that used 1/2”x 1/2” x various lengths of Frame extenders in pine from a window manufacturer we all worked for. That was great but needed supports every 12”. 
 

Maybe because that is the only way I have personally seen spline done is why I mentioned it and have heard or seen written a few issues having to sand the tops level. I know whatever you do will be fine.i am here for the ride and it sounds like you maybe 45 minutes closer to me now in Wisconsin.

I am looking forward to this build

Tom

Vertical Supports

Finished installing the wall supports for the lower staging deck and the main deck today.

I also knocked out the vertical supports for the two free standing peninsulas on the layout.  right now they are just leaning against the wall. Unfortunately I can't install them in place until the new carpet is laid.  Stinking carpet, slowing up production!!! 

As you can see in the picture, the bottom of the vertical supports have two adjustable bolt "feet".  These will be placed on 3"x3" plywood bases over the carpet. I wanted the thickness of the support wall to be as thin as possible for track planning purposes, so I mounted the 2x4s perpendicular to the support feet. 

To make sure there was a solid connection between the upright 2x4 and the foot base, I used #10 x 3 1/2" coarse thread drywall screws for mounting.  Driving such long screws can be rather difficult, even with pilot holes drilled to avoid splitting the wood.  Many of you probably already know this little trick, but just in case you don't, wetting the screw then pulling the threads across a bar of bathroom soap to coat the threads makes driving the screws in a LOT easier!

The peninsulas are attached to the wall at one end, and the supports for each peninsula will be tied together with plywood stringers. But the aisle end of the peninsulas will free float, so to speak. With no place to fix the exposed end of the peninsula, I'm a little worried about the whole peninsula getting bumped out of place during/after construction.  I'm not sure if this will be necessary, but the only solution I can come up with is to cut the bolt head off the adjustable feet, and grind the bolt to a dull point. The point will then dig into the 3"x3" plywood base, and the friction of the base against the carpet will hold the partition in place...I hope!  (Edit: Another option I thought of after posting this was to just counter sink a hole into the 3x3 base that the bolt head can fit into. Then the friction of the block against the carpet holds things in place as before.)

Spline Material Choice(s)

Hi Paul - glad to read that you are back at it?

There are quite a few discussions here on MRH regarding spline sub-roadbed and what people used. You may want to consider taking an evening to search on "pine spline", "homasote spline" and "masonite spline" and read through all of the various threads those will produce.

I am personally familiar with homasote spline having helped build my friend's Deepwater Division of the Virginian here in the greater Cincinnati area. It's a fabulous material for splines but one that comes with a whole bunch of dust when you cut the splines from a 4'x8' sheet. It really is an incredible amount of dust....

I also know of quite a few layouts that used pine for the spline. This to me seems a better option over masonite because it will take track nails/fasteners better/easier than masonite. Masonite works, I just think it's harder to work with than pine.

My 2-cents.....

@ Paul

Glad to have you following along with the new Pokey!

Thanks for the advice about searching the site for other spline posts.  I've done that before, but maybe there are some new ones out there I should check out. I'll especially look for ones talking about pine splines now.

You are right about the dust involved with cutting Masonite. To avoid that I was planning to put my table saw in the garage, and do the cutting outside as much as possible. 

That's a good point about pine taking the track nails easier.  That would certainly be a benefit. 

Just out of curiosity, when you used pine for the splines, did you laminate the pine strips together, or use spacer blocks between the strips?

Grinding bolt to a point?

Paul,

Why not use a wide or spade drill bit to make a divot in the plywood that fits the head of the bolt? It will keep the bolt head in place and saves time grinding the bolt head to a point. If you are worried the plywood base might still move, roughen up the side you are placing on the carpet side a bit to help increase the friction.

legs on carpet.

Check out some speaker stand spikes. They are sharp and go thru the carpet to stabilize the legs on the solid floor below.....DaveB

@ Yaron

I thought of your divot idea in the plywood base after I posted my comment and added that as an edit before reading your suggestion.  I guess great minds think alike!  

 I didn't consider roughing up the bottom of the plywood base however. That's a good suggestion, and one I will most definitely use.

@ Dave

Funny you mention speaker legs.  I have some speaker stands that have those exact legs on them and thought about using them as you suggested. 

The big snafu here however, is that I made the mistake of mentioning that idea to my wife.  Guess what she did? She exercised her veto power in less than a nanosecond!  Guess I have to learn when to keep my mouth closed!

Back at ya'

FYI - Randy over on his Cincinnati West Blog has some great comments along the way on how he handled his "wife unit" when various potentially controversially issues came up....

I have personal experience with homasote spline - not pine. Yes, we just glued the splines together with diluted white glue. On the RR's I've seen that used pine spline, they all made use of spacer blocks and used homabed on top.