Pictures or it didn't happen

On some layouts the bench work craftsmanship is so good it seems a shame to hide. Not mine. I have zero carpentry training, no skill, and limited tools available. The main tools I have been using for layout construction:

My thinking on bench work is I want to hide it. Valance, fascia and skirting will cover it up. Bench work should be strong but does not need to be attractive - save resources for things that are going to be seen.

Phase 1 initial framing in:

I initially attempted a different technique for the upper deck, using brackets. Not good enough. I decided to go with a method similar to that used for the lumber rack. The result is better than with my brackets. I still wouldn't jump up and down on the upper deck like I could the lower deck.

I'm learning as I go. More pictures to come...

Deck Height

During this initial phase I need to make a critical decision that will affect the entire layout: deck height.

The floor of the garage slopes considerably (around 1% but inconsistent) toward the door -- but the decks are flat. Therefore, how high each deck is depends on where you stand. Mock-ups either sat on the floor or were not large enough to get a complete picture.

Plan assumed 60 inches from the floor for the upper deck and 40 inches for the lower deck (20 inch deck separation) but these were placeholders because I knew floor would create a challenge. I want: the lower deck as high as possible, the upper deck as low as possible; and the space between decks as big as possible. Compromises.

I targeted the middle and mocked things up at several different heights, yet again. I finally just went for 60 over 43 1/2 in roughly the middle to see how it looked. After living with it and testing reach in and mocking up track arrangements for a couple weeks, I decided the the upper deck had ended up too high and I lowered the upper deck.

After living with the adjusted height for a bit, I've decided to stick with it. Upper deck subroadbed now ranges from about 59 ³/₄ to 57 ³/₄ inches from the floor, add roughly 1/4 inch for roadbed plus rail. The height of the lower deck subroadbed ranges from about 44 ³/₈ to 42 ³/₈ inches from the floor, add roughly 1/4 inch for roadbed plus rail.

Main concern is adequate deck separation, now set at 15 ³/₈ between the decks. A two inch fascia / light valance will result in 13 ³/₈ deck separation. This seems to look fine and putting tracks in with cars on them, everything looks great. With this type of decision it is hard to know if there will be some unforeseen problem waiting ahead. Checking to see what others have done, I note that in the 2007 issue of Model Railroad Planning, Tony Koester (the same guy who wrote a book on double deck layouts) discusses double deck layout heights. At the end of the article he states: "...aim for 14" to 16" of separation, especially in HO..." I ended up at 15 ³/₈, near the middle of his range. Guess I'll just hope for the best.

A couple planning points to note, in the long term plan:

• Most switching on the lower deck will be closer the higher height (lower floor) and most switching on the upper deck will be closer to the lower height (higher floor). It's not much but I am able to use the sloping floor for some advantage (its a major headache for construction).

• The peninsula has deeper top decks (Deer Park might have as much as 24 inch reach in) and narrower lower decks. The outside walls have deeper lower decks (Kettle Falls yard might have up to 30 inch reach in) and a narrow upper deck. The intention was not only to avoid having switching areas on both decks in the same standing space - but also avoid deep scenes (and difficult view angles / longer reach to the lower deck) under a full width upper deck.

More to come...

Backdrop, Risers and Subroadbed, oh my

When people post things like "I should have taken more pictures" I always wonder if they actually messed up somewhere and had to fix things. In my case, I messed the upper backdrop and therefore... I should have taken more pictures...

A new backdrop material for me is vinyl flooring. I quickly learned the vinyl flooring is great against the wall but not so good on the free standing frame.
    
My problem stemmed from a lack of planning. The deck height discussion above is important because the garage door limits the upper deck light valance height. I measured the garage door multiple times, I measured the door when it was open and closed but not in between. I failed to consider the door tracks on either side, which bend starting lower than the door height.

For all the planning I did its almost embarrassing that I missed this one. No plan survives contact with reality. My initial solution was to bend the backdrop forward towards the viewer. Bending the backdrop forward over the layout was a neat idea and if I had planned for it, it just might have worked. I ended up with a compound curve that created an unacceptable lump in the upper backdrop. Needed to fix it before pressing ahead. Two steps forward, one step back.

Backdrop, Risers and Subroadbed for phase 1 are in. The upper backdrop still needs mud and to be sanded smooth at this point.

Storage shelf over the upper deck installed on the light valance also. Staring to look like a place to build a model.

I am sure I will make plenty more mistakes as I go. Back to sanding...

Lights

I got some LED strip lights. This thread was particularly helpful.

I started putting lights in while waiting for the mud to dry. This requires soldering wire to the LED strip and connecting to the power supply. Haven't worked with these before so a little learning curve involved but not hard. Interim picture here:

Room lights are about 4k. The LED deck lights are about 3k. I think the combo looks great in person.

Not sure why I'm sanding the backdrop smooth, I intend to add photo backdrops that will cover it. I want the lights working before playing with photos.

All caught up for now. More misadventures to come in due time. Thanks for reading.

Looks good to me

I've never built a double deck layout, but have 1 question.

If you put in your upper brackets before finishing the lower deck and back drop, have you created a constant source of places to bash your head?

I have found 13-15" of

Well doesn't that depend somewhat on how deep the decks are? What is your depth limit for that, Joe?

Looks like the OP has up to 30" wide lower decks on the sides. 

Looking good...

Looking good, nice to see somebody building and not suffering from paralysis of analysis.  

Keep up the progress! 

Randy

Generally limit width

You generally want to limit the upper deck to 24” max with 18” width ideal, and 12” wide quite workable for rural scenes. If you do need the upper deck to be wider than 24”, try to keep the extra wide portion very short, a run of 4 feet max and topping out at 36” wide — like if you’re doing a full roundhouse or such.

If you make it any wider, you will find reaching all areas to be impossible and you will need to add popup access somehow.

Thanks for the comments

Thanks the comments everyone!

It is good to hear that your experience suggests my deck separation is adequate.

I admit saw your posts on lighting and generally copied your solution. I also am going for a warm summer morning type look. I've only installed the first ~16 feet or so (one strip on each deck), thus far looks great!.

Yes. Thank goodness I have a thick skull. What is "finishing"? 

Given the sloping floor, I could not figure out deck heights without installing the framework for both decks. The upper deck is recessed considerably in this scene (and around the outside walls). If I find issues working on it, I'll know better for phase 2.

Photos here show a 12" to 14" inch wide upper deck over a 12" to 24" inch wide lower deck - generally recessed.

The Kettle Falls yard scene on the lower deck (other side of the room) is planned for a longer reach in. The upper deck above it is planned for a 12" to 14" inch depth rural scene. I wanted to avoid a long reach in under a full depth upper deck. My max reach in on the upper deck is set at about 24" inches, I also have a 18" inch max reach in for scenes under a full depth upper deck. Check my design thread for more details.

I have a spreadsheet with view angle calculations based on Jack Burgess' article here.

Thank you for all the comments. Glad to be able to share.

Colville Roadbed

Roadbed for the Colville scene has been proceeding. After the subroadbed was in I had my lovely wife craft some paper buildings to the rough dimensions of some anticipated main structures in town. I put the paper models in their general locations and placed some old pieces of track on the layout. A little bit of fiddling with the scene and checking clearances. Looks like this:

I've got a roll of 1/4 inch cork flooring underlayment, it's 4 feet wide and 50 feet long. Can cut 4 foot strips any width. I experimented with trying to cut a bevel in cork strips with a utility knife. Not easy for me to get a 4 foot straight cut plus a bevel. I decided to experiment with ballast to see if I needed to bevel the cork. I took some extra ballast from a prior project and tried to ballast some unbeveled cork. A few minutes later I had this:

Not a good job at shaping the ballast or anything. I put it all back in the can. I decided a bevel was unnecessary and proceeded without beveling. So I cut strips of cork for the roadbed, using a simple jig:

Not all sections of the layout need roadbed. Colville in 2015 from Bing maps: 

The track in the foreground is the branch line "main" while the track with the Vaagen lumber loads is the house track / siding / run around.

I did spend energy trying to measure the height of the roadbed. It varies. I think 1/4 inch isn't too far off. I finally decided I only have 1/4 inch cork so I'll just use that.

I need transitions between the cork and the plywood for the sidings here. I glued down cork strips to the point where the transition would end, then carefully used a disc sander to form a ramp.

For the transition, I used about 18 inches. Lots of measuring and holding flex track flat on both ends over the transition area to look for low points and flat spots, then hand sanded those out. At the plywood end of the cork gets too thin to sand, so a little drywall compound was used to smooth out the end of the transition.

Here, I'm testing with some passengers cars to ensure the transition will work with anything I might run. Its a bit tricky to make sure the transition is not only even vertically but also stays level horizontally.

Still putting in track, so cannot comment on how its worked out yet, but fairly confident at this point.

2 tips

1) A belt sander is a better tool for this than a disk sander (if you have one...) ... and work downhill rather then up.

2) Cut your cork for the ramp section in quarters, and put bits of balsa 3/16, 1/8. and 1/16 high between them. Sand till you reach the balsa. This will help gauge both the lengthwise and side to side  levels, and help keep them true.

Bevel...

Lay the 1/4" cork, then take a rasper to the edges.  It gives you enough bevel and is quick and easy. 

Randy

Track & Electrical

Some of you chiming in have done this before and really know what your saying and I appreciate the input. These are simply great tips! I have lots more to build over time, so thank you very much!

To continue with the misadventures, I finished up the track work and electrical a while ago but just getting around to posting.

Here is where the layout as is currently:

Colville:

Dean Station & Mead Siding

A couple cars on the tracks for scale prospective. The photo backdrop is under development, but I put up a couple samples for fun. You might notice the frog juicer attached with high strength velcro.

None of the track is actually glued down yet. Plan is to run trains for a while too make sure everything is running smoothly. I'm feeling confident thus far but want to continue testing until warmer weather to monitor for any expansion problems. May even wait to glue in place with ballasting.

More to come...

Track, turnouts & mechanical

Micro Engineering code 70 flex track. Code 70 rail is a close match to the weight of the rail reported on the profile. I considered hand laying the track but my assessment was that flex track was cheaper, would be easier to install and would look good. I'm not sure how closely the ties match the prototype but I think the spacing and size looks fine.

Turnouts:
Hand built using Fast Tracks jigs. I only have #6 jig thus far. The full layout will need over 60 turnouts. Considering the cost, reliability, and maintenance - I decided to see if I could learn to make my own...

I had not previously built my own turnouts. I also wondered if I could enjoy the process. I watched the entire Fast Track video documentation series several times before taking the leap of faith that I could get these to work and not hate it. The Fast Track video documentation is really good. I follow every step as best I can and I go slow.

I've soldered before but never really enough to get good at it. I find the small diameter solder to be really helpful. I had a few failures mostly around the throw-bars but the installed turnouts all seem to be working okay for now. That said, I fully suspect these first attempts may become problematic over time. The crossover in Mead was my first crossover ever and a bit a hack job but seems to work just fine. I've identified several techniques to improve. I do not hate making turnouts yet - which is good because I have many to build still.

Ground Throws:
I prefer manual turnout control to tortoise motors while operating. I had Peco finger flick turnouts before and I like the ground throws better. Maybe someday the appearance will bug me enough to try something else, but for now I'm going with these. As an experiment, I painted the ends of the handles: green for the main track and orange for diverging (GN paint scheme). May rub off over time, just an experiment.

More to come...

That's coming along nicely

  Can you run trains on the unglued track? .....DaveB

Electrical

I have an older NCE DCC Power Pro plus a wireless throttle. Envision adding an ISE ProtoThrottle eventually. The long term wiring plan is for each scene to be on a separate block. This should allow for adding boosters in the future as needed.

I try limiting soldering on the layout, so I build these at the work bench:

Then wire up the tracks to the bus:

Bus wire is 12 gauge stranded, feeders are 22 gauge solid. Wago 221-413 lever-nuts 3 conductor connectors and XHF 221-415 lever-nuts 5 conductor connectors.

This is why the track is not glued or spiked down yet. The wiring holds things in place.

Frog Juicers
The section of a turnout where the rails cross, it looks a bit like and called the frog. This section of track needs to be electrically isolated and change polarity with the direction of the turnout.

I took Joe's advise from the the August 2020 issue of MRH and installed Tam Valley Frog Juicers. I'm striving for an operating layout that consistently runs well. I wanted a single source solution from an established company with a reputation for good customer support. I've got enough other projects to work on.

A big advantage of these, is the power to the frog is completely separate from the mechanical construction of the turnout. When building and installing hand laid track for the first time these help. Diagnosing a problem at the turnout is simplified, is it mechanical or electrical. I really like these.

No frogs were harmed in the making or wiring of the turnouts.

Can you run trains on the

Absolutely. I'm using my shortest engine to test electrical and longest passenger cars to test mechanical. Seems to be running just fine so far. A tiny bit concerned I'll goof it up in the process of gluing it down.

Thanks for reading!

  A tiny bit concerned I'll

Hi Steve, I'd think you don't really need to disturb it to glue it down. You could probably squirt some Ca glue between the ties at a few spots to hold it steady then let the ballasting do the final glue job. For a long time it was common to nail down flextrack instead of gluing it,a tiny brad in a drilled hole is hard to see after ballasting so you could add a few nails here and there if needed. It might be worth experimenting on an out of the way area and see how hard it is to ballast without taking the track up to reset it in glue....DaveB

Track Glue

Hi Dave-
Thanks. Yes that is basically the plan: either diluted white glue, a couple drops of Ca or maybe a few temporary spikes until ballast goes in or some combination of the above. Likely wait for summer while I run trains in various temperatures and weather this spring. Currently experimenting tracking painting... among other projects.

Layout Update

Been a while since I posted an update. Track was caulked down and painted and the plywood got a coat of paint:

The ground paint is a light grey maybe like dry summer ground. Probably should be a little darker and/or more brown, will serve as at least a primer. I need to run more tests before getting too far into scenery.

Some photo backdrop progress has been made:

Getting the trees in front of the sky to work was a challenge but I think I've got that figured out now Still experimenting somewhat and having trouble with sticking - mostly because I still need some flexibility in placement. I have more backdrop partly completed (and files saved), but a couple areas I'm still having a challenge getting the picture color temperatures to work together.

The steam loco is from an old layout and the most prone to derail that I have available, so I use it to test track.

Much progress has been made on the Little Spokane River Bridge scene:

Initial test fit:

Mostly done now, still needs to be weathered. The track works:

The backdrop photo started as a google street view not too far away but needed some modification. The bridge was based on, and inspired by, the actual bridge over the little Spokane river:

I got a little confused during the build. All the other pictures I have are after the late 80s refurbishment but I'm targeting this one in '70s. Several mistakes were made (hybrid bridge?). I think it still looks okay in person.

This was my first scratch build project and my first bridge, gotta start someplace. I figured if I did not get this one built early, I would procrastinate building it for years. I enjoyed learning how to build this type thing and the process of building it. I may rebuild a more accurate version someday.

Most of these two scenes are basically ready to start scenery now. This was the main goal of phase 1, start small and learn and how to build this thing.

Rather than start scenery at this point, I think next step is to build phase 2 to this level (scenery ready). Sawdust and major construction are not scenery friendly. Phase 2 is Kettle Falls Yard on the lower level, plus Loon Lake and the Deer Park siding on the upper level. Phase 2 is about double the size and complexity (about 25 turnouts) of phase 1. Given what I've learned I expect it will go faster. Time to get busy...

Steve

Your layout is really starting to shape up! The bridge scene on the Little Spokane is exceptional.

 Have fun!

River Supports

Thanks Rick.

I was looking at the pictures and wondering why there was so little room for the slope when I realized I installed the river supports on the wrong side. Duh! These supports ensure the river bottom stays level as compared to the track. They are not really critical and an easy fix:

Quick check to make sure everything is still aligned properly, and now much better!

Edit: another photo of the actual bridge: