Passing along an observation

There is a small online mag that comes out once every 3 months. No idea what the name of it is at the moment. 

One of the writers is a track planner with what is suppose to be a decent reputation.He made an interesting observation that layouts that are just made to watch trains run have a very short life span measured in months. This applies even if scenery is gotten to and completed to a degree where it looks done.

Turns out boredom sets in and the layout comes down and something else is started.

Unless operation of some sort is allowed for and then incorporated and then actually practiced the layout just doesn't hold interest for very long.

I remembered a layout I saw on a tour one time that was a very well done layout. Great scenery, weathered cars and locos and it represented a part of the SP in CA just west of the bay area where it went through the coast range, I think it was Niles Canyon. Had about 5 or less small RR associated buildings on it. Not sure there was even a passing siding. Once I figured that out I lost interest. The scenery was repetitive and There wasn't really anything to hold ones attention other then the train itself.

Jack

Modular

I'd only consider to build a layout like that if it was utilizing one of the modular standards (Free-mo etc) and planning to bring it to modular events. That way you get to model it and use it in a larger (temporary) layout each time you bring it to a meet. Many modular layouts welcome the use of modules that are nothing but "through track" to create distance between switching location. And since it's modular, you could set it up in your house from time to time and rail-fan some trains, use it as a diorama etc then put it in storage when done.

There are a good amount amount of modelers that do this. They typically have no permanent layout in their home, just storage and a workspace for the various module sets they create. They setup what they want to work on and store it away when done (which still can mean modules are setup for weeks on end). They might have some basic yard or loop modules/planks they can attach to the modules being worked on to run trains for testing or mini operating sessions. But that's it. They mostly enjoy bringing the modules together at an event and run their (long) trains and switch varying industries. It's like going to an ops session and not only bringing a train to run but bring part of the track and scenery as well.

Prime example: the nearly 25ft long 1:87 replica of the Tunkhannock Viaduct (aka Nicholson bridge) module made by Andy Moniuszko. It has been to several events where it has been admired by many as an awesome model. In most home layout spaces it would dominate (eye-catch) and at the same time limit the other operational options you could build unless the space is extremely large (think of needing at minimum a 3 car garage type space).

A layout with no on-line switching?

  I could make a nice  Tehachapi layout with no industries, just lots of long trains meeting at sidings, and helpers going back down creating even more meets. For the dispatcher and crews it would be fun operations, and for the  engine and freight car modeler it would be a great place to showcase their work......DaveB

One of the writers is a track

This makes perfect sense to me.  I have plans for online industry and switching for that very purpose.

A display layout

A layout with excellent scenery and no operations might be OK for a display layout for a hobby shop, toy store or train shows but as Jack mentions it would soon get boring for the owner.  Great mountain scenery would probably be a requirement and of course a tunnel.  Sand Patch?

How about a display layout in a pediatric dental office?  Ever been done?  I've heard of G scale trains running near the ceiling.  

Robert

Just to clarify, the thought

Just to clarify, the thought I'm kicking around here would be a layout that could be operated in a very prototypical manner, with some operational interest.  Sand Patch's east and west slope require helpers and there was a slew of interlocking towers between the two endpoints, with 3 of them lasting into the 80's (and 1 until 2001).  

So I don't think the idea was one of watching trains run, but one of prototypical operations devoid of on-line switching and little yard switching.  Think the V&O, but mainline only.

No industries?

Does no industries mean no yards?  How about passenger terminals?

I get the feeling the intent of the question is nothing but mainline.  If so, I think it would get a bit boring for the operators, and quite possibly even for the dispatcher (limited potential for the sort of problems to crop up that can make dispatching more interesting).

I’d never build a layout with no industries for myself - just not my cup of tea.

How about the flip side- would you build a layout with no mainline? Only a yard, or an industrial track serving an industrial park or something like that?

I have, and I will again.

Describes the La Mesa layout

While they have built some industrial areas around Bakersfield, for the most part the La Mesa Club's massive Tehachapi layout is just what you describe.  A long mainline with very little in the way of industry.  I don't know if they've built the cement plant at Monolith yet, which is the only significant industry on that line.

A lot of the western mainlines are like this, with long distances between significant towns and industries.  If said mainline is double track, the operation aspect would get pretty boring fast.  I'm afraid the same could be said for Sand Patch.

Scott Chatfield

Would I?

My answer is no. The reason for the NO is I want to be involved driving the locomotive and to just kick back and watching it run has not much appeal to me. I am not saying it’s wrong but it’s not for me.

Tom

Does no industries mean no

So in this hypothetical situation, there wouldn't be much in the way of yards.  One end at Cumberland is way to big to model within reason.  Connellsville at the other end is more manageable.  Passenger trains by the 80's had no stops in the middle of the division.

On the flip side, the layout I am in the process of starting is a switching layout based on a short piece of a Conrail secondary.  Maybe not quite an industrial track, but close.

I would

A few of my never past paper ideas was to do the Curve, Altoona to Conway. Those yards would be staging. Basically just three tracks of fast action and helpers. 

I think the space needed to pull that off and for it to feel right and not get boring would be a very very large space. 

A lot of the western

Yea, Sand Patch is double track.  There are probably some better single track options on the same concept.  The WM line that parallels it is an obvious example and I'm sure there's many more in coal country

But hey, who says double track mains aren't interesting 

 "There are probably some

Saluda might be an interesting spot for an eastern(southern)  line, very steep with special braking / train control rules . As modelers we could increase the traffic levels to suit our preferences....DaveB

Someone was asking about yards. I think the only yards a layout of this type would need are staging yards. I'd shoot for a double ended yard seriving both ends of the run to simplify staging and operations....DaveB

I thought I started one. I

I thought I started one. I researched some Navy photos and Sanford maps and I was recreating, if not slightly compressed--downtown Indiana, PA. But then I remembered the coal distributor, and the ramp where new cars were offloaded, and the food distributor and well, I think there were 12-15 industries in a few square city blocks. 

So I guess the answer is really no. 

Re: Describes the La Mesa layout

La Mesa's Tehachapi is, as described, essentially a long mainline that also has a long helper grade.  To update the industries, Monolith has been in operation for several years although there are no structures as yet.  Edison, which will be a prime agricultural shipping area, has track laid and the electrical work started.  The summit town of
Tehachapi has a few spurs, again mostly for agricultural shipping.   Elsewhere on the main line, a few towns have spurs that are mostly used for SP business but also see some commercial traffic. 

(See Jason Hill's blog -- http://nightowlmodeler.blogspot.com/2020/-- for more details on Tehachapi and other aspects of the club's freight ops.)

Two branch lines also afford switching opportunities.  Arvin has almost 100 spots dedicated to reefers.  Across the aisle, Taft has a few industries including some that serve the area oil fields.  Both are within Bakersfield (SP) Yard limits.

In progress

My mainline has no online industries save the interchange. Trains go from staging to on stage then off again. Some stop and pick up the cars left from the branch and others may drop a cut for the branch. The upper deck, under construction will be all switching. So, imo, the best of both worlds. 
 

The staging has only for tracks so there isn’t a lot of variety but I enjoy watching the different consists parade from one direction and come back later. At some point JMRI will automate the sequence so I can run trains for visitors or work the branch line. Maybe a webcam would allow some railfanning from a distance as well. 

A layout with long runs

A layout with long runs to.... nowhere?

Nobody would wanna come run trains on it but once (and even then, only if it looked really cool).

You could do it if you had a passenger station and a yard at each end, then run locals out to switch the areas around those yards, and have people running the long haul trains between those two points, then rotate in the next iteration(s).

One thing is for sure, that'd run very contrary to the overall concept many (if not most) model railroaders have, to put as much track into a layout as possible (sometimes to the point of looking comical).

I would not personally

Switching goodness...

Twelve feet of switching goodness!  That's what I'm talking about. 

When I began planning for my layout, I was originally going to model the C&O of Indiana. It passed near where I lived and I went under it many times as a kid. But, as I researched it, I found there weren't that many industries along that line. So, I went the other direction down my street as a kid, to the Ohio River. There I found switching Nirvana. Industry after industry all along the river, and not one, but TWO railroads!  I knew I'd found my prototype. Two huge industries too, Monsanto and Seagram's.  Each of them runs the length of the 33' wall on which they're located. 33' of switching goodness!  Twice!  

Large industries are where its at. 

No way I'd ever build a layout without industries to work. 

Randy

no switching

It depends on your goals for the layout.

Personally I like switching operations, but a layout built for mainline operations, with enough mainline distance and passing sidings to get multiple trains running and challenging a dispatcher, with branch lines where trains can enter or leave the district, and grade helper operations may not provide major industrial operations, but a whole different type of mainline operations that isn't always focused on.

If there's even one small yard or transfer point though that can add to the interest, giving an additional wrinkle for a dispatcher to manage while a train stops to switch blocks at the yard.

switching or mainline?

When I was a kid I hung out in the SP yard watching them switch but now that is all gone. Nowdays I'll go watch trains at Tehachapi, Cajon, Donner, etc. and see very little switching. How many folks today see enough switching action to want to model it, versus how many see mainline operations?  It probably depends on the era one wants to model, present day railroading is more mainline oriented with little loose car railroading so modern era modelers are more likely to model the modern traffic patterns( to showcase  their efforts more realisticly) than they are to model operations from the old days ....DaveB

La Mesa

Several people have mentioned La Mesa, and yes, they have interesting operations that are primarily mainline, but they can do that because they have an 8,000 square foot layout where trains climb 8ft+ from end to end, and are 30 years into a 50 year construction process with 100 people working on the layout. They probably have tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment on their layout, some of their benchwork is welded steel... They also are modelling a prototype that has been basically run near or at capacity on a single track bottleneck for most of the past century.

So the real question pertains to a mainline operation in a home environment... maybe. I'd much rather have some industries to serve, but if you design a layout for it, you could have enough space for TT&TO or even CTC mainline operations with little to no switching if you used a multi-deck design, it would just be boring. But for a double-track prototype, it's not going to be fun to operate at all.

  "But for a double-track

I guess it depends on you definition of fun. I've spent many happy days watching train go around Tehachapi loop so I'd enjoy a layout that showcases long trains of nicely built realistic models coming up and down the hill with meets at the loop and maybe Woodford and Marcel if there was enough room. Watching three cab forwards take on water could be very interesting.I could probably come up with a plan for a double car garage that would capture the essence of the scenery and operations, especially if using N scale. ....DaveB

Switching is not everything!

Just as an observation, switching is very much part of the US hobby and reflects what goes on on US railroads. However, it is not the only approach. In the UK and much of Europe, passenger operations are still a major feature of the prototype. If you take a layout to an exhibition, more paying visitors will be attracted to the layouts that let them watch some trains go by. Building locos and rolling stock is also a major part of the hobby, so a layout that lets you see your models in action has an appeal. An example is Tony Wright's model of Little Bytham, a location on the East Coast main line, when almost all trains were steam hauled. His greatest interest is probably in building locos and his layout allows him to run a schedule with much of the day's activity on one of the busiest trunk routes. He has a correspondingly large staging yard! 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=little+bytham+tony+wright&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dlittle%2bbytham%2btony%2bwright%26qpvt%3dlittle%2bbytham%2btony%2bwright%26FORM%3dVDRE&view=detail&mid=2BB4E099EBA22F41452A2BB4E099EBA22F41452A&rvsmid=60E5B14DC27A816073B560E5B14DC27A816073B5&FORM=VDQVAP

Pendon is another good example

https://pendonmuseum.com/tour-introduction

Best wishes 

Eric