I have had a long hobby

I have had a long hobby "career" in model railroading. I have build hundreds of locomotives and freight cars. I have written many magazine articles that were published. I have helped many model railroaders with their hobby. I these ways I thing I have accomplished a lot.

However, I am not yet where I want to be. I want to have a finished layout that operated and looks great. One that I can have plenty of fun with by having a few friends over to operate it with me in a relaxed way. I am not there yet and am not sure I will ever get there. I think about this a lot.

My layout was about half done when we had a basement "water" problem this past summer. That "event" set me back a lot. I still have to remove half the layout and rebuild the train room before moving forward. I did not need this problem. Obviously I am not where I want to be.

Jim Six

Interesting question.

And timely, in my case. For you see, I'm somewhat at a crossroad.

I'll try to keep this brief...

For several decades, I've had a desire to model a freelanced 19th century Colorado layout. ALMOST took the plunge back about 18 years ago with Sn3. Wienie'd out, and returned to diesels (again), eventually selling all my Sn3 stuff.

I'm now poised to start my fifth, and (what I supposed would be) final layout. (I'm 66.) I fully intended to take the 19th century Colorado plunge, this time in HO standard gauge, and have the freelanced theme concocted, a "start here" track plan, along with enough equipment that's functional (but not finished) on hand to start construction (even have the first batch of lumber stacked on the floor), Then two stumbling have reared their heads:

1. Can I paint a "good 'enuf" (to me) funky fantastic Colorado inspired back drop?

2. What is going to be like to deal with that tiny (HO 19th century equipment is TINY compared to HO diesel era equipment) if/should my dexterity fade significantly, as well as my eyesight? Increased magnification perhaps can help the latter, not much will help the former.

As an example of just HOW TINY HO 19th century equipment is, take a look at this 19th century steam engine sitting amid MODEST sized HO diesel era models:

(Typical 19th century boxcar of my chosen era is about 30' long many were less!)

With these concerns coming to the fore, I halted going forward on the layout as I have been deliberating the implications of these two uncertainties.

At this point, I have decided that the idea is on hold until I can determine whether I can paint an acceptable (to me) backdrop. Here's an example of such an attempt from back during my Sn3 days:

I'm now in the process of revisiting the attempt to paint Colorado. The past week I have purchased a 24"x48" canvas, primed it, got the basic blue onto it, have painted onto it some clouds, and I now have the base coat applied for some distant mountains. Shadows and contours on the distant mountains are next. Then it will be time to create an intermediate mountain range, followed by foreground w/trees.

I "THINK" if I can at least produce what I created some 18 years ago (above) WITH some changes and improvements... well... perhaps there's a chance.

BUT, IF, when I finish my painting attempt, I simply cannot abide by my results, then I'm pulling the plug before I ever start cutting lumber and will look at my Plan B options. IF I can accept my results, then I will move onto the next phase, which is:

2. Build only ONE wall of the proposed layout, get some track in place, and get the track up to the "functional" (wired/etc) state. I will then try switching cars and such with the tiny equipment to see what it's like to live with it at my age/dexterity NOW, and then try to imagine what it will be like 10 years from now when my hands may not be as steady/etc. IF the small equipment seems too finicky and piddle prone to me NOW... then it won't stand a chance being acceptable when I'm in my mid-late seventies. I would end up hating the thing.

I figure I'm looking at least it being 1-2 years before I'll be able to make a final decision. IF it's a "no go", then I'll have to decide on what Plan B will be. IF I have to develop a Plan B, then it will be simpler and more accommodating to aging, and Plan B will be the direction I will go.

Much to be decided in the next 1-2 years.

So, yup, that's an interesting question.

Andre

Make it Movable

I had my water problem in 2015, I viewed it as an opportunity.

Consider the change

The idea of a "finished" layout is an interesting concept.  First comes the question of whether any layout can ever be "finished".  Second, a "finished" layout would seem to mean switching the hobby focus from building to running and maintaining.

If that logic is correct, then the goal of a "finished" layout means a large change in one's hobby endeavor.  Continuing on the building track (pun intended) would require either constant change on an "unfinished" layout or starting a new layout.

So, my layout will never be "finished".  There are enough envisioned projects of all types to keep me busy and happy on a "final" layout.

Ups & downs

 Yep...pretty much the same issues, (except for the liquid problem). Two previous incomplete layouts built, and down (1988-1995). Stuff was in cold storage for several years (1995-2008). I thought the house we bought would work, guess what it doesn't (only 223 sq. ft. area to model in). I'm Still struggling to find a track plan that will work, in the space that I have. I know what I want to do, it's just a matter of getting it to fit in the space. 

  Since 2010 I too, have had some major medical issues to deal with, which still increases, almost daily. But I keep at it, or at least try to. I just seem to keep running in road blocks. Not to mention being forced to medically retire from employment, and the loss of funds needed.

 Sure it would be nice to have some of the fancy do-dads, to make things for the RR. So when the Micro-Mark catalog comes in I can only sit there and turn the pages, and think to myself..."Oh that would be nice to purchase, I could do this, with it, and that." Until I look at the price. "Nope not gonna' happen, not at that price". So I look for other ways to get there. Which of course, just hasn't worked out in the long run.

 Same thing applies to just even simple rolling stock at today's prices, I've got to look long and hard at the item, and ask myself "Do I...?" Sometimes yes sometimes no."  DCC way out of my price range".  There are just to many things in the way, of getting to where I want my RR to be.

 That and my wife has kept me on a very tight budget ($100.00 a month). So I try to recycle things to get stuff.

Charlie

Unfinished, not really too....Jim....

Jim, for sure you are not alone, but even if my big initial project is unfinished, I'm proud of my modeler life

My Maclau River is a long project, which I begun around 1979 when I was 20 with the help of my late father.

Now at nearly sixty; well, I'm far from the end, even forty years later.

When I begun the big project, I envisaged to have a good place to build and put the layout.

But the course of life is not always what you have dream about.

I lost two wifes, I move severals times because of my work, difficult for a modeler.

The first victim, if I can say, is my layout project because I never had in fact the place to put the layout and work continuously on the project; some years where heavily productive, but others really not.

Dad convinced me,  to buy the layout in big modules; he was a civil engineer with a big industrial background, may be the reason he envisionned to build the layout in big modules, I must say in a TOMA way but this was 40 years ago !!

I could never thanks him enough for his concept, because this has saved the layout and what was already build during my quiet turbulent life.

Five of the eleven modules which are needed to build the full project, are finished, these modules of around 1.25m by 2.50m have move severals time but are all salvaged and stored ( modules of around 4' by 8')

Two where show intensively at train show with some sucess.

I have change my vision of the layout and also the basic plan during this 40 years but the basic idea is still alive.

The dad concept has allow me to build and follow the project during these 40 years, and because of the concept, my modeler life never ended, but the Maclau River is unfinished and the golden spike miss me really.

But life is an constantly evolding thing, and the future seems take a big turn in a way I have never think about.

Things are able to change extremly quickly in life, beleive me !

When I lost Clementine  8 years ago I also changed my work from ironworker to consultant in a multinational.

In a few weeks my real life will change probably a lot, the sky is really blue.

My actual girlfriend and me are working in a big multinational company; a few weeks ago she has received  a proposal; the opportunity to have a new job with big responsability in the company but...in Canada Québec near Montréal.

Because we are living togheter, I also received a proposal from the company to work in Canada.

This "small country" is only 5.750 km from Belgium......but we have accepted directly without any regrets.

My girlfriend which encourage me a lot for my modeling projects,  convinced me to bring the Maclau River with us.

So my  American layout build in Europe,  probably will come in 2019 in Canada for ever, because we probably stay for ever in Canada; we really don't want to come back in Europe for many reasons.

 I hope to put this golden spike in Canada, the possibility is really great and I feel the "force" to do it.

In conclusion, yes I'm far from the end, but I remember 40 years ago, I was ready to push this layout project during my life, so time is coming to finish it and in a country I have never think about it  !!

Y'all have some interesting

Y'all have some interesting stories. I do want a complete layout. Building layouts is not my dream. Operating a finished layout that I build is my dream. So, I will continue working towards that goal. I can see myself with the completed layout and spending my time doing tow things. One is building new freight cars and locomotives, and the other is operating them on the finished layout. This photo pictures my dream very well. A near finished layout and locomotive and freight cars that I prepared myself.

Jim

Where am I ?

  I've decided to stop overthinking it and just build something before it's too late. I realized it doesn't matter which of the many way to proceed I choose now as I'm likely to change my interests down the road anyway. Trying to hit a moving target is too much work for the reward gained, might as well just pick the low hanging fruit. So now I've got benchwork up and can work on anything I want when I go out to the layout room,track laying, backdrop painting, scenery, buildings,rolling stock, etc. . Finishing any of it is not a priority, just enjoying each hour of  hobby time is the goal....DaveB 

Interesting Question

I have 2 main loves in MRing and they hold equal attraction. City- industrial, brick canyons, victorian business areas, and waterfronts. That is in progress on a 10x10ft layout. Track is down, don't need any more locos or cars. Buildings are being restored or built after going through 2 moves in 2 years. Time period is 50's-early 60's.

Other big interest is NG logging and or mining from 1900+or-. No locos and the few cars I have date from almost 50 years ago and are in pretty rough condition. I also enjoy standard gauge from the same time period. I have about a dozen cars from that period and a few steam locos that would need some back dating. I need a space of about 12x12 to do what I want. If and when the home situation changes I may just dive into it.

But you have to be careful with what you ask for right. A few weeks back I posted an inquiry about where to get some cyclone vents. Ordered some through the LHS and went over to pick them up this afternoon. Owner of the shop has a table in the front piled 2 or 3 deep with some old freight cars that most of us would be happy to sell and some of us would see them as major bash jobs. I spied a narrow white box under 2 other boxes so like any self respecting MRer just had to see what was buried and discovered a very old version of a LA Belle HOn3 D&RGW coach kit. and siting next to it was a La Belle standard gauge kit passenger car. I opened up the HOn3 kit and it looks complete??? Well maybe. Owner comes over to see what I'm looking at and says, "take it, it's yours" How do you pass that up? I asked him to set the other kit aside and that I'll be back to get it in a couple of weeks. So now I'm a couple of cars closer to a goal that is mostly a figment of the imagination. Well I'm having fun getting to where ever I'm going.

Jack

Jim, that explains a lot

Jim, that explains a lot regarding your desires. It also points out some subtle distinctions between many of us. I suspect it would be quite possible to put a fine line on the layout tasks and divide it into many categories. But let me just say for this discussion there are two. Those of us that would be pleased with a layout that is bench work and track complete or mostly complete and those that want the layout and scenery complete with the focus on ops and the occasional new piece of rolling stock.

I appreciate your view on this and if I got to that point I would still be happy running trains and building freight cars, (my favorite activity). I also really like building the rest of it, so for me that is also an enjoyable activity that I would not feel in a rush to complete. So where ever I am in the journey will be fine with me. For you what you are advocating makes perfect sense and for anyone else with the same desire.

Another great topic for discussion. And something that each modeler might want to look at for himself, or herself as the case may be.

do you know what there is?

tomorrow you may discover or better understand some aspect of the hobby which changes your perspective and goals.

i recently retired and started helping others with there layouts and understanding their goals.   I'm learning much more about operation and am able to better appreciate what i've read about operation.

operation requires an appropriately designed and sufficiently built layout.  It doesn't require scenery or structures.

maybe this just changes the priorities of what gets accomplished.   But I think having weekly operating sessions with a group of guys who've helped build the layout is a lot more encouraging than working on completing a scenicked layout you hope to operate some day.

@andre

Re: #1 - is it essential you paint the backdrop YOURSELF? There are some fine artists around...

Re #2 - This is an issue for many of us. As you know, Sn3 has more mass and is easier on the eyes. And On30 has some nice locomotives that might be workable for you. Unfortunately, i don't know of anyone offering the kind of basic loco mechanisms, sideframes, wheelsets, etc. PLUS quick-to-build customizable superstructures for those of us in somewhat of a hurry to see results.

I think there's a number of people in a similar position. I don't YET see a supplier stepping forward to supply this market.

Right where I'm supposed to be

...though not necessarily where I WISH I was!  It would take a full-size novel to recount my 40-year mrr journey, so I'll have to give an executive summary.

As I've shared in another thread, my current [and probably final] empire is more than I ever dreamed of during my hobby "infancy".  It is a trackwork-completed, partially-scenicked industrial switching layout that fills a two-car garage, has enough different operating scenarios that would take me ~8 hours if I did them all myself end-to-end - and I host op sessions a few times a year.  I arrived here in fits and spurts, buying motive power and rolling stock during brief periods of having enough disposable income, then long periods of not really doing much.  I've had to negotiate my way into each incremental bit of mrr real estate, the last one being that I had to surrender a workshop adjacent to the downstairs family room in exchange for the wall where my auto assembly plant now sits. So now my trainroom tends to be either in "workshop" mode, or "operations" mode.

A downside is that I was pressured by circumstances [when we first moved into our current home] to construct my benchwork in a semi-finished garage - i.e., there's enough sheetrock on the walls and ceiling to make the space fully climate-insulated - but there are no baseboards along the floor.  Between that and the fact that the vehicle doorways and racks are still exposed, dust and spiders [with their cobwebs] are a never-ending problem which make my layout a high maintenance pursuit.  I would have to completely tear down the layout in order to properly "finish" the space, and I'm absolutely NOT ready to do that!

Another obstacle to full enjoyment is that I have seasonal affective disorder (i.e. depression from lack of sunlight) during the winter months, which are supposed to be the most active time for model railroading.  This condition robs me of much of my enthusiasm and energy, especially on weekday evenings [I'm not retired yet].

All-in-all though, with an operational layout and a loving wife who fully supports my hobby, I think I'm in a pretty good place.

Mark...

First off, thank for taking the time to share your thoughts.

You said:

"...is it essential you paint the backdrop YOURSELF?"

Very insightful question there. I had to give that question some thought. My answer...

For sure, there are some FANTASTIC artists that I could commission. I see painted backdrops here at this site that are very impressive.

In my warped case: I "THINK" it's because when it comes to all aspects of a layout, I want it to be MY EFFORT... for better or for worse. I don't really know why that it is... but over the 50+ years I've been into model trains, it's always been the case. Since early on, I've always wanted to do all the work on all the equipment, and all the aspects of the layout, on my lonesome. Thus if its successful in conveying my vision, then I've succeeded. Conversely, if it isn't successful at conveying my vision, well... that's on me too. I can deal with that.

You also observed...

"As you know, Sn3 has more mass and is easier on the eyes."

It is a nice size. The downfall of Sn3 was that there was no easily attainable equipment for 19th century Colorado. EVERYTHING had to be craftsman level kits (such as the Railmaster C and D class locomotive kits), every piece of rolling stock had to either be sractch built, or heavily scratch-bashed, kit-bashed, etc. I simply grew tired of the constant tedious work the equipment was requiring. I think I recall 60+ hours in assembling this (picture below) Railmaster kit, half that already in engine #2... and I needed a half dozen engines for my layout theme!!

Rolling stock was pretty much the same way, except no actual kits were available, so even common cars such as gondolas had to be scratch-bashed:

And, I needed more than a dozen or dozen and a half of them, as well that many (or more) boxcars, flats, etc. Very little was available for the chosen era.

So that's what happened to Sn3: The modeling intensity level it required killed it.

"And On30 has some nice locomotives that might be workable for you..."

I took a very serious look at On30. I didn't like the coupler height compromise, and i didn't want to set in and have to modify any and all On30 piece of equipment a standard coupler height. (Which would have been a pain in the behind for the On30 2-8-0 C class I had purchased for a look see, etc.) So, I tossed the towel in on that idea before it went very far at all.

You also correct that modeling the TOC19 era isn't for the faint of heart. As I mentioned in my original post, my problem this go around isn't the intensity level (though I'm having to "fix" just about all the equipment to make it acceptable)... it's the tiny size now.

I've woven a very tangled web.

I have about 1-2 years to sort it out. The outcome will be one of two events:

1. I'll see that the painting OR the tiny trains AIN'T for me on the long term, and I'll make the needed change within 1-2 years. (Earlier if the painting kills it.)

2. I'll decide it's do-able for the foreseeable future, and try to get as far as I can before my dexterity and/or eyesight gets to the point that it's simply no longer fun (10 more years?) to fart with such tiny trains. At that point, provided I have enough stamina to take the next steps that will be required, I'll chainsaw the TOC19 Colorado layout, build simplistic shelves around the wall... and make a 3-rail layout to finish out my life with. Given the VERY forgiving nature* of traditional 3-rail, I "THINK" I can handle it until I'm at the "drool n' diapers" stage... at which point it won't matter.

* Forgiving nature: Easy to put on the rails and/or re-rail, large enough to handle easily, no delicate details for unsure hands to damage when equipment gets knocked over/etc, easy to work on, forgiving couplers that are large enough to actually make manual uncoupling do-able (if I don't want to avail myself of the electro-magnetic features), and such things as these.

Yes, a move to 3-rail would change my theme (would go back to urban double track main w/industrial siding/spurs), but if it comes to that, so be it. Traditional 3-rail is would still be miniature trains running on miniature tracks, in a world that I created which (to me) would be better than no trains and no layout. In other words, sort of like what is in this picture that was taken during some experimentation along these lines some time ago:

Of course, I would want a more finished look: Weathered (and closer spaced) track, weathered equipment, cinder ballast and yard, bushes, weeds. vegetation, etc... but you can get the idea from what's above. I could be okay with the above... but I really do think I need to see where I'm at on my desire for TOC19 Colorado layout.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. As you can see, it made me think!

Andre

scenery stage

I wonder what percentage of layouts never get past the scenery stage. I don't have artistic talent, and I sort of dread the whole scenicing aspect of the hobby. I suspect that if I ever get a layout built to operation, it may get stuck at that level while I enjoy running trains on it and imagining the scenery. It's partly because I doubt I can do anything that satisfies me.

The issue of a realistic colorado backdrop is one I relate to, except I have no hope of painting anything like even the first attempt shown. I recall my first drawing lesson in primary school. The teacher put an apple on her desk and we were to draw it. She said, start with a circle. When time expired, 15 minutes later, I was still trying to draw a round circle, with my paper almost having holes from repeated erasure. So much for art.

I went on to a decent career in engineering. 

When it comes to backdrops, I'm interested in the kind you make by taking a picture, the kinds you buy pre-made and stick up, the kinds you get by hiring someone to paint it for you. Failing all of those, there's the kind you make by painting the drywall sky blue with a roller.

So if I ever get space for a layout, will I even get to where I'd like to be? No, I'm far to limited artistically. But I am pretty good at imagining things, and might be pretty ok with a sky-blue backdrop and a lot of 3-d printed trees.

"But I am pretty good at

  A blue backdrop and Woodland scenics trees is pretty simple to put together  and once in place makes one forget about the backdrop and just  enjoy the trains ....DaveB 

Not there yet

Having to make an unplanned move in retirement, I hope to start the layout this winter.  My goal by spring is to get the bench work up, main line track laid and wired, and the terminal at one end of my point to point built.  After that I'll work on the other track.  That will put me where I want to be.

With trains operational I'll work on final buildings (place holder buildings will be used initially).  While I'll do some initial/basic scenery (grass mat type) in the beginning, detailed scenery will come last - if that doesn't get finished I'm okay with it.

I'm 71 and the layout will be 17x40, so I don't really expect to finish.  But once I'm running trains with some rudimentary scenery and buildings, I'll be happy.

Paul

This tread gets me thinking about stuff

I've been into model railroading pretty much constant since about 1972 when I was 12. During those years I have had 5 different layouts....1 shelf switching layout....a couple of 4x8s and 2 room size layouts. Out of the 5 I managed to get 3 to a point of being able to run trains and 1 to a point of scenery going on. A lot of the reasons for not 'completing' a layout is that I have moved around the country quite a bit and every time I moved the layout gets the chainsaw treatment. Now life has changed for me...I have no intention of moving again until I reach retirement in a few years and maybe not even then. So I am now working on my 6th layout which when 'finished' will fill up a small extra room (11x15). I am not very far with this layout yet but am almost ready to lay track on the first couple of modules (using a modified TOMA concept for construction). So I suppose I am where I feel I should be at 58...Building a layout that has operations and scenery with the outlook of getting it to an appearance of completion...I say appearance because I agree with those who think a layout is never really finished.

Less and Less

Jim,

This is a timely topic for me.  I am in the process of ripping out my first railroad which I would deem a failure.  I have given thought to why so.  Basically I tried to things that were above my skill level.  A second problem was I let other people have too much influence on what I was doing and had more track and industries then what I needed.

I am getting ready to start my next layout.  I  think Lance Mindheim has a good point in starting with what you want when you get finished.  I don't want an army to run the railroad.  I will mostly be a sole operator with a desire to operate in 30 minute to an hour increments.  I have a L shape area 26 X 12.  I am looking real hard at modeling the Kendallville Terminal Railroad in Kendallville Indiana.  One big customer, Kraft plant.  Corn syrup tanks and sugar in.   I have a track plan and what I like about it is that it spreads out the scenes for good composition.  Last week I was lucky enough to pick up an undecorated Proto 2000 SW8 as a good starting point.  Have not started yet, still in the ugly destruction mode.

DaveB

Dave, you brought up a point that in all of my messages for the past years I have not mentioned. That is, we are shooting at a moving target. For most of my life every time EMD or GE released a new locomotive I shifted my modeling to allow it. Every time new, better models came available I adjusted my modeling to include it. This seemingly went on forever.

Finally, I came to realize that I was indeed shooting at moving targets and that I had to STOP. This only happened when I had open heart surgery four years ago. That "event" gave me plenty of time to re-think what I was doing. During the months following the surgery I thought about the entire hobby, what I like most and least. I re-evaluated what I was doing (mid-1950s) and decided I no longer liked what I was doing.

So, I chose a setting that could NEVER CHANGE. By going back to the 1920s there could be no changes. Those years were what they were. PERIOD!!! It took a couple of years to narrow the 1920s to just one year -- 1927. That is the year that allows the most of what I like from the pre-WWII era, so I settled on it and have never looked back.

Jim Six

gregc

Hi Greg,

What you say does not really work for me. I am not "normal". For more normal folks what you suggest should work very well and makes perfect sense. In my case, I don't function well in close  groups -- like basement operating sessions in close quarters. Its an Aspergers thing.

For all of you "normal" folks, read Greg's words and digest them. They are words of wisdom.

Thanks Greg,

Jim Six

Ken Larson

IMO, where you are in the hobby is the envy of the majority of model railroaders! Thank you for sharing,

Jim Six

JackM

I like what you wrote Jack. You know where you are at and where you want to go. You said something that has real meaning to me and should for others. That is, you wrote, " I let other people have too much influence on what I was doing".

This words hit home for me. For far too ling I let other drive my modeling. No more. I do what the hell I want to do now, and if anyone doesn't care for it, too freaking bad! They are the one with the problem, not me. Now that I am modeling for myself and not to please others I am having more fun in the hobby since I was a young kid!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Jim Six

The sweet spot

Jim,

 I'm in my sweet spot. Totally immersed. The only thing that can make me a little concerned at times is that I have been here before and slipped into boredom after three to four years which resulted in total abandonment of the hobby.

I believe that we are pretty close to the same age (9-21-48) so priorities now are quite different than in years past. For me, identifying what REALLY engages ME in the hobby is the key to continued immersion. I'm on my longest continuous run right now and hope it lasts until I am unable to do the kind of things I enjoy. That being said one of the keys for me has been the freedom of abandoning the expected norms of the hobby and concentrating only on what I want to do.

 Anyway, rather than chronicling my entire journey, here are pictures of my periods of full immersion. Each one was a huge learning experience and a whirlwind of enjoyment.

The start in 1962

First big rebuild. Approx 1964.  torn down about a year later and "hobby" turned to girls, cars and all the trappings of later teen years.

Restarted in early 1990's.  The spaghetti bowl just before I realized that there was no room for scenery.........chainsawed but good learning experience. 

Modular club 90's. First attempt at painting clouds.....yikes. Lesson learned. After receiving a rejection letter from MR mentioning that they found the clouds distracting I took off the backdrop and shot the module in front of  the basement  layout below and got my first photo published. From that point on photography has remained a big part of the hobby for me.

Right side of module using basement layout as background.

The "big" basement layout. End of 90's era. Sold house and left hobby. 

Restart again about 5 years ago. Current smaller layout during photo shoot.