joef
On other thread, quite a discussion about RailPro vs DCC came up. Rather than hijack that thread any further, let's move the discussion here. To start with, we'll copy in a few posts to get the discussion going.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
TwinStar

Why I prefer RailPro over DCC

I would recommend that newbies to this hobby skip DCC entirely. The number of articles are almost limitless concerning the complexities, limitations, poor user interface of, and 'how to fix' DCC. It was great 30 years ago but there is so much better now.

Anyone new should consider RailPro and not any of the DCC systems.

  • RailPro requires no programming,
  • requires no programming track,
  • requires no programming track booster,
  • requires no JMRI,
  • has no speed steps,
  • has no CV's,
  • requires no interface to get their DCC to talk to JMRI,
  • can be used with Keep-Alive tech without communication issues,
  • will continue to respond to command signals if it runs off the rails with a Keep-Alive,
  • doesn't have address duplication issues,
  • doesn't have speed matching limitations,
  • does have bidirectional communication,
  • does have load sharing tech,
  • does not have the complexities of getting the correct headlight on
  • does not require an extensive wired command network,
  • does not rely on clean track for command signals,
  • does not require expensive proprietary boosters and command stations,
  • has universal throttle use,
  • can be used in DCC mode,
  • can have sound volumes changed on the fly,
  • does have color touch screen control,
  • does allow saving a pic of your locomotive,
  • does have load feature,
  • does have the only Direct Radio+Network,
  • ... and frankly I feel it's just easier to use and cheaper to buy.

This was a great article covering the limitations of the beginner DCS50 (I used to own one) and one of the numerous complexities in 'fixing' DCC. While useful for someone who already owns this it would be bewildering why someone new would buy one or even one of the newer DCS51s with additional slots.

DCC can only ever operate DCC and can never achieve bidirectional communications allowing locomotives to talk to each other and load share like RailPro does and real locomotives do. However, RailPro can always be put into DCC mode if one needed to ever go back that route.

So why spend twice the money on something so complex with half the capability?

And yes Joe, we are already working on getting you some experienced RailPro contributors lined up for the new column. 

Reply 0
Logger01

Hummm? ... easier to use and cheaper to buy.

We have done comparisons before, but one more time.

Quote:

... easier to use and cheaper to buy.

N Scale (or smaller):

  • RailPro a NO GO, so essentially impossible and making DCC infinitely better (a thing divided by a non-thing approaching zero)!!

Basic HO, S, O Scales:

  • Basic RailPro system $399 and three LM-3S modules $300 for a total of about $699.
  • Basic DCC++ with RPI $45 with JMRI, Arduino with motor Bd $30, power supplies $10, three Econamis with CurrentKeepers, $285 and an old iPod Touch $25 for a total of about $395. Not simple but an H___ of a lot cheaper.
  • Basic NCE Power ProCap system $125 and three Econamis with CurrentKeepers, $285  for a total of about $408. Add a wireless conversion set $230 for a total of about $638. Simple and cheaper.
  • Basic NCE Power Pro starter system $379 and three Econamis with CurrentKeepers, $285 for a total of about $664. Simple and cheaper.

Large Scales:

  • RailPro HC-2 Throttle $300, power supply $45 and three LM-3S-Gs $540 for a total of about $885.
  • DCC++ with RPI $45 with JMRI, Arduino $10 with driver $15, MERG 10 Amp Booster $35, power supply $45 and three Econami Large Scales $360 for a total of about $500. Not simple but an H__ of a lot cheaper.
  • Train Engineer Revolution set $260, MERG 10 Amp Booster $35, power supply $45 and three Econami Large Scales $360 for a total of about $700. Simple and cheaper.

Ken K

gSkidder.GIF 

Reply 0
TwinStar

Ken and costs

Ken:

You won't get any argument from me about the lack of N scale availability from RailPro. Supposedly it is coming but you are correct in that it is not available today. Our N scale brothers are limited to DCC or DC as BlueRail won't fit into an N scale locomotive either.

On costs, you need to do an apples to apples comparison. To that end, you can't start listing MSRP prices which no one pays. Numerous retail outlets sell RailPro products at a discount and I'll use my favorite as an example, which is Precision Design Company (I have no affiliation with them and am just a satisfied customer).

The 'basic RailPro system' which comprises the HC-2 (throttle and a 'command station') and a PWR-56 (think booster), which also acts as a repeater for the 'Net' part of Direct Radio+Net is available for $299 all day long, with free shipping, and not the $399 that you list.

The LM-3S (sound 'decoders') that you list for $100 are available for $73 and, again, with free shipping. That's $518 for your component list verses the $699 that you quoted. This is cheaper than every system you listed save for the DCC++. I will admit that I know nothing of DCC++ but if it involves an Apple product then I'm out. I'm sure others will love it.

You are correct in that if someone is going to convert an existing DCC Sound fleet to RailPro there is going to be considerable cost. I know; I did it. However, if one is starting from scratch or a small fleet the cost is comparable, if not cheaper, than DCC Sound.

Where RailPro really excels on the cost comparison is when it comes to 'boosters'. A typical DCC booster (Digitrax DB-210 is $124 from Yankee Dabbler and a PS-615 is $65 from the same) is $189 for each power district. Compare that to a RS-75-15 Mean Well Power Supply 15V 5A which is available on Ebay for $20.15 with free shipping. Let's compare a 5 power district DCC layout versus a same with fixed DC. Your DCC layout will cost $945 (not including a command station, DCS 240 @ $335 with PS-615) whereas my RailPro layout will cost $100.75. That is a significant difference. I also have radio built in whereas you may or may not have to purchase additional simplex or duplex equipment to get wireless capability. And given the unreliability of DCC wireless you'll need to factor in the costs of UP-5 ($15 each) or equivalent connector. And if you're running Digitrax you'll need to ensure the Loco-net is stable and will need at least two if not more LNRP's ($61 each) and a power supply (PS-14 @ $12 each). Don't forget a PC to run JMRI (which you probably already have) and a programming track booster ($100?) and a bridge between your favorite DCC system and your JMRI ($50?). You'll also need some new boards if you plan to run a Keep-Alive as well and I don't want to look the cost of those up.

Does it make sense for a convert to go whole hog? Probably not and I've never claimed such. What I did say is that a 'newbie' would be throwing good money after bad to go DCC. Again, any current (see Joe?) DCC can ONLY RUN IN DCC whereas RailPro can run as RailPro or DCC. Kind of like the old VHS and DVD players when we were getting way from 'be kind and rewind' and moving to DVD's.

On the G scale you may very well be right. I really don't pay attention to much other than HO. I will need to limit my comments to HO scale issues in the future and I really do apologize for any confusion. I don't discount the other scales but I do find myself focused on my HO world. Three LM-3S-G are actually $447 and not $540. But hey, if you can run G scale you've got money to burn, right?

RailPro has all of the advanced capability of the Direct Radio+Net and it can run with and as DCC and it does so at a cheaper cost (save for the above referenced DCC++) while eliminating every single headache associated with DCC. So, why would a newbie go with DCC?

Reply 0
Benny

...

Add a wireless module to our DCC circuits wired into the power wires and you can have bi-directional wireless in every single DCC equipped device we have...Railpro is nice, but it's not mandatory to advance.

--------------------------------------------------------

Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits

Reply 0
TwinStar

Add a wireless module to our

Quote:

Add a wireless module to our DCC circuits wired into the power wires and you can have bi-directional wireless in every single DCC equipped device we have...Railpro is nice, but it's not mandatory to advance.

 

That could work but remember that DCC isn't set up for bidirectional communications. As such, you'd have to modify every piece of hardware. Command stations, boosters, throttles, decoders (too which there is already limited room in the shell), repeaters, antennas, UP-5's, etc. It would be a monumental task to do such. Not impossible, but very difficult. I would compare it to converting a 2 wheel drive truck to a 4 wheel drive. It would be much cheaper and easier just to buy a 4WD. 

You are absolutely correct in that it is not necessary to advance. One can stay as static as long as they choose until the ground calls us. Let's look at just the LM-3(S) (the 'Decoder' in DCC speak). It costs $73 for the sound version ($46 for non-sound), can be run with either Direct Radio+Net via either a HC-2 (throttle), or with DR+N with a CI-1 (USB antenna to use with a simulator off your PC), or it can be run in DCC mode with the DCC system of your choice. So, if you were going to convert a DC loco or to install a 'decoder' into a DCC Ready Loco why would you choose one that can only run in legacy DCC and why not one that can run in both DCC and Direct Radio? More capability that can run with legacy equipment and for the same money? That just seems like a no brainer to me.

Let's look at just three features of RailPro that solved two very irritating problems with DCC.

Address Duplication of Locomotives: With DCC, if you 'address' your locomotive 4354 and I address my locomotive as 4354 and we're on the same layout either of us can control the other's. If I command mine to move then yours is going to move as well whether you want it to or not. Or, if someone accidentally selects 4354 while trying to operate 4454 then you're going to move as well. Having been a Free-mo participant for the last decade I've seen a runaway locomotive at every single setup. 

Conversely, it is impossible to have the above with RailPro. There are no address limitations or duplication issues. If mine in 4354 and yours is 4354 them mine, and only mine, will ever move. We assign road numbers in the locomotive file on the HC-2 for our convenience but it doesn't matter what we call it. Each LM has a unique 16 digit address (assigned by Ring; similar to LCC if you're familiar) and that is the 'address' that the commands are sent to. We can have 20 different 4354's on a layout and it makes no difference. I can have two 4354's , say a RI 4354 and a BN 4354, on my HC-2 and it doesn't matter. It's just a file name. You also have the capability of setting a password on your LM if you choose. If so, even another RailPro user can't acquire and operate your loco(s) without your password. If you take an hour for beans you can rest assured that unless someone 5 fingers your power that it is going to be exactly where you left it. 

 

Speed Matching of Locomotives: While this was a huge advancement over the old days of hoping two DC locos would play together it is important to understand that speed matching is a compromise due to the limitations of DCC and not a goal. DCC decoders are blind and dumb. They cant' give feed back and they don't know if they're alone or MU'd. One locomotive by itself will behave no different than if it's MU'd to 4 others. Since DCC decoders can't communicate with each other or with the command station the only option was to allow the speed steps to be changed and to get them close, or speed matched, so that they ran together similarly. As such, a DCC consist doesn't share the load but they merely pull and push against each other.

With RailPro, the locomotives communicate with each other and to the throttle. Each new LM goes through a 2.5 second motor load current test when installed to set its 'power'. A Kato might be 240 ma while a Genesis might be 320. This information is saved and each LM knows the power available to it. When I MU locomotives together each LM knows who it is linked to and they communicate, varying the power between them, as the locomotives begin pulling or as they crest and descend hills. The locomotives will vary their pulling power in order to equally share the load of the train. Where this really shines is in operations that require DPU's. Put power in the middle or the rear of your train from different manufacturers and don't worry about it. The locomotives will vary their power to handle the train. Have a hill on your layout? Just like the real thing the lead locos will decrease their power as they crest the hill while the rear units will increase theirs while climbing it. 

 

F0. This is really irritating but generally the first indication that a locomotive consist is being operated by DCC as all the trailing headlights are on as well as the lead. That doesn't happen with RailPro. We select which headlight we want on for the lead locomotive and only that headlight comes on. There also isn't the ping-pong effect of the headlights as we reverse direction. 

 

RailPro isn't another version of DCC as it is so much more advanced and capable. The end result is that our trains move down the rail like DCC but the simplicity and capability puts RailPro in a whole other category. A 19" cathode ray tube TV will still show you the news but it can't compare to a 4K 60" flatscreen. I wouldn't recommend nor expect guys to start ripping our $100 Tsunamis and chunking them but I do have to wonder why a new install or a new modeler wouldn't go with the most capable and simplest option available. 

Reply 0
joef

That should get things started ...

Okay, these posts should get this new spinoff thread started. I will add my comments later on, but go ahead, please! Just play nice ...

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
PeteM

I like a lot of things I read about RailPro

but how is the sound for Diesels in terms of audio quality, options/features, range of locos etc., when compared with say Loksound and TCS WOW?

Thanks,

Pete

 

Pete M

Frying O scale decoders since 1994
https://www.youtube.com/user/GP9um/videos

Reply 0
RSeiler

RailPro's biggest hurdle...

The biggest hurdle for RailPro to me is the inability to buy off-the-shelf ready-to-run locomotives. I can buy locomotives with DCC and sound all day, in all sorts of varieties, new and used, but I can't really buy a RailPro RTR locomotive.  

Randy

 

Randy

Cincinnati West -  B&O/PC  Summer 1975

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/17997

Reply 0
Chihuahua-Pacifico Chepe

Third option?

Really appreciate a new thread started on this, I've put off buying a DCC system for years because frankly my hope was that the industry would get its act together and make decoders work well on straight DC. Soundtraxx econamis do fairly well there. TS1 and 2 not so well. 

I had considered RailPro but frankly when a sales pitch says "don't buy that" I tend to look at that other option even more. The missing slot article was nice and it cemented my belief that Digitrax won't be the go-to system for my power. With a dozen engines w/decoders and straight DC numbering a hundred it becomes an expensive proposition to get RailPro. IF manufacturers had it installed in a unit at the same price as DCC equipped power I would consider it almost a done deal. The mental switch between NCE and RailPro has been going back and forth for days until now.

 

 

"Chepe" Lopez-Mateos

Reply 0
George Sinos gsinos

Well, now that I have a Proto

Well, now that I have a Proto Throttle every DCC decision starts with - does it work with my PT? gs

Reply 0
Skeleton

Eh...

There is only two big flaws with Railpro that will turn people away and that is the chip size and the handheld controller itself. Railpro's programming is top notch. Running Railpro is easy and requires no extra programming and no extra hassle. The problem that Railpro has is the hand held controller itself being bulky. It's so oversized it's frustrating to deal with. A smartphone has touch screen and all kinds of other gadgets and is practically thin as paper, yet for some reason in 2018 the Railpro controller is the size of a brick.

As far as the chips go I am starting to run into limitations. The chips take up so much space in the locomotive, that a good portion of my fleet can't use it due to their thin bodies. I can't mill out the frame just for the chip, so most of my fleet will have to be DCC. So now I'm left in the dilemma of I am going to have to go to DCC even though I hate it. Railpro is great, but until it can actually fit in the damn locomotives without endless amounts of modifications to the locomotives, then it will continue to be a niche market.

DCC will always win because it has a gigantic MOD community of people modifying it and trying to make it better. The industry will forever stay stuck in the past and continue to use DCC even though there are better options out there. And DCC chips continue to only get smaller and smaller making them ideal. DCC is unfortunately the only way a modeler can go because it's the only thing actually supported by anyone. DCC is basically a monopoly in this hobby and will continue to be even though there is more advanced technology out there. 

DCC will continue to be the only route we can take for probably 35 more years until some company gets off their butt and actually research and develops a new control system. Right now companies only care about research and developing more rivets on your locomotives rather than make a top notch effortless control system for them. The industry is more about the cosmetics of our locomotives than about what actually drives and controls them. We are advancing visually, but are still in the stone age in other aspects. Just like the flying car, we will never live along enough to see the true potential of our hobby.

Reply 0
joef

Going beyond the hype

I wanted to speak to TwinStar's glowing endorsement of RailPro and his implication that DCC is extremely dysfunctional in comparison. I will quote his post and then make my comments.

Quote:

The number of articles are almost limitless concerning the complexities, limitations, poor user interface of, and 'how to fix' DCC.

The implication here is much of the vast library of DCC articles is how to fix and/or work around a broken technology. That is an extreme hyperbole statement and does not properly characterize the typical DCC user's experience or why the DCC library of articles is so vast. Reality is most of the articles explore how to get more out of DCC, not how to put a band-aid on a badly broken technology. Such a characterization of DCC by a RailPro advocate is self-serving and unfair.

A more accurate statement would be RailPro is simpler to setup and use than DCC, but that doesn't make DCC "broken". The analogy would be how driving a car is easier than driving a truck. Just because driving a truck can be more involved doesn't mean the truck is broken technology.

Quote:
  • requires no programming track,
  • requires no programming track booster,

Modern DCC doesn't need a programming track either. Programming on the main has become so easy and all-encompassing that you don't need a programming track on your layout. My new Siskiyou Line 2 layout will have no programming track.

On the rare occasion that I need to read back CV values or update sound files, I will use my PC workstation and tie my PC to a piece of track for these rare more advanced tasks. That's little different than tying the RailPro system to a PC and its RailPro Assistant software for updating things.

Quote:
  • requires no JMRI,
  • requires no interface to get their DCC to talk to JMRI,

DCC doesn't require JMRI to function, so the implication here is misleading. The NCE Pro system as well as the new ESU system comes with a computer interface as part of the package. That's little different from the RailPro system having its RailPro Assistant software and being able to directly interface with your computer out of the box.

For other systems it's true that you need to buy more stuff to connect a computer to your system, but that's not universally true for ALL DCC systems, so making such a blanket statement is misleading and ignores the fact you also need a PC to update your RailPro system too. Let's have total disclosure here, okay?

Quote:
  • has no speed steps,
  • has no CV's,

I'd be careful saying this because it can sound like a BIG disadvantage of RailPro. If we get beyond the jargon to the actual function these things provide -- does RailPro allow adjusting a locomotive's performance and settings? If yes, then time to stop trying to make this an issue -- both DCC and RailPro are configurable and avoid confusing the issue by throwing DCC jargon around as a smokescreen.

RailPro's configuration might be simpler -- and if so just say that and make it clear both are configurable, one's just simpler. Overstating your case makes you sound desperate -- and I don't think you really want (or need) that.

Quote:
  • doesn't have address duplication issues,
  • doesn't have speed matching limitations,

The last time I had address duplication issues on my Siskiyou Line was prior to 2000 when we were still limited to essentially two digit addresses. Since that time, I've never had a problem with duplicate addresses. Most home layout owners won't have that problem.

With some simple guidelines, most clubs won't have that problem either. One simple approach is to give each member a two digit number and have them use the last two digits on the cab and put their member number in front. That way, only the member ever has to deal with duplicates within his own loco collection.

DCC doesn't have speed matching limitations either, and once you know how to speed match locos, it's pretty straightforward. Speed matching is certainly not the big awful task some have tried to make it out to be. On my Siskiyou Line, using a reference loco to set speed curves makes it easy to consist any loco with another on-the-fly. So it's not the big DCC bug-a-boo some think it is.

That said, it's quite true RailPro's speed matching feature is superb and a big plus of the system. But to imply DCC speed matching is limited or overly complicated is not accurate either.

More in the next post.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
joef

Going beyond the hype, part 2

Quote:
  • does have bidirectional communication,
  • does have load sharing tech,

While not as robust, Railcom (an NMRA Standard) does give two-way communication ability between the command station and a loco. The new ESU system is wifi and Railcom enabled out of the box, and the new coming TCS DCC system will be wifi and Railcom enabled as well. Other system vendors are working on major new upgrades to their systems that will add touch screen, wifi, and Railcom capabilty ... so just wait. DCC is about to make a major leap ahead in tech.

As for load sharing, DCC has back EMF which provides a form of load sharing when configured properly. True RailPro has "smart load sharing" which means you don't need to do any configuring. But I've not found modern DCC back EMF configuration to be all that difficult. A couple CV adjustments and things run great.

Quote:
  • does not have the complexities of getting the correct headlight on
  • does not require an extensive wired command network,

Programming headlights can be a bit fiddly, but it's never been that hard to get both headlights to work as I want. With the huge userbase of DCC, just asking how to make it work can quickly give you all the info you need to get it working great. Yes, RailPro sounds easier, but DCC is not THAT hard.

The wired network is more a function of pre-wireless DCC and not a limitation of DCC per se. Direct wireless DCC is available, although not mainstream (yet). I can see that changing as DCC tech keeps developing. My conversations with the DCC system vendors indicates the big players see it's high time for designing new systems and moving DCC to the next level.

Keep watching the horizon ... ESU and TCS are leading the way into the new era of DCC system tech, with NCE and Digitrax not far behind ...

Quote:
  • does not rely on clean track for command signals,
  • does not require expensive proprietary boosters and command stations,

As stated above, signals through the track is not a DCC limitation. Wireless DCC is already starting to appear and I predict will be coming like the proverbial freight train as the new crop of DCC systems comes on the market.

As for boosters or command stations -- rather than look at pieces parts per se, I feel a more honest comparison is to look at total cost of ownership for a functional system for say a dozen sound equipped locos. System setup is a one time thing and once done, I don't really give any thought to how many pieces parts there may be under the hood. As for proprietary boosters, not really. I use many different vendor's boosters on my Siskiyou Line and they all work together just fine.

Even with RailPro you will need to deal with getting power to the track, managing shorts, and dealing with reversing sections. Power to the rail is power to the rail, so making it sound like you can avoid these considerations with RailPro is once again overstating your case.

Quote:
  • has universal throttle use,
  • can be used in DCC mode,

As for a universal throttle, RailPro is a single propriety system and within any single proprietary DCC system, that statement is also true. All the throttles within a given system are universal and will work on any other layout that uses the same proprietary system. In fact, if anything, being able to use your phone as a throttle on any DCC system is becoming common, so DCC has the advantage there. Can I use my cell phone as a throttle on RailPro? Didn't think so.

The fact RailPro now also will do DCC is a recognition that DCC is quite popular and isn't going away any time soon. If you can't beat em, join em. Good move, but it proves the point that DCC is hardly a dysfunctional technology that needs to be put out to pasture ...

Quote:
  • can have sound volumes changed on the fly,

Programming on the main allows me to change sound volumes as needed on DCC. It may not be as intuitive as RailPro, but it's very much available and not very difficult to do.


In the final analysis, I agree RailPro is slick and quite user friendly versus DCC. That said, DCC is also easy to use once you learn the basics, and it has a rich and vast array of capabilities that extend well beyond what RailPro currently offers.

And DCC, while not always keeping up with the leading edge of user interfaces, has developed a rich underlying feature set that is second to none. And as the new crop of updated DCC systems starts to come online and as wireless DCC moves mainstream, DCC is going to make major usability leaps in the coming years.

And for me, the new ProtoThrottle, decoders with sound, braking, and momentum, along with stay alive in the locos -- it doesn't get much better. DCC is hardly the "broken and dysfunctional technology" you're making it out to be. Sometimes complicated and fiddily -- yes. But the future of DCC is already showing signs of making some new leaps -- not in a small part thanks to RailPro showing the way, actually!

But if you don't want to wait for DCC to catch up, certainly give RailPro some serious consideration. It's a honey of a system if you like your control system to be uber user-friendly and don't mind being limited to a single vendor for all your loco control needs.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
ctxmf74

Over and over?

We had this discussion many times and it always comes down to balancing your needs.  If you need to run many mu lash ups and change them frequently then rail pro might be for you. Do you want to buy from many companies and not  just one then railpro might not be for you. Do you want to be able to buy small cheap utility throttles, have many choices of sound and control modules, etc. Are you modeling in a scale not served by railpro?Do you know how to use DCC already or are you a newbie?  Each of us have our own needs so we make our choices......DaveB

Reply 0
Greg Williams GregW66

What if Mr. Ring dies

I mean, God forbid, but no one is immortal! I am always shy of proprietary systems. I want the choice of manufacturer, or a DIY option. I agree RailPro has advantages but until it is an open source system, which likely won't happen, I'll stick with DCC. 

Case in point. QSI, once a thriving company, now almost invisible in the market. Yet, we still have plenty of options. What if Mr. Ring loses interest or gets an offer for a job that only a fool would turn down. Look at Monster Model Works, for very good reasons, he has decided to close shop, but I can still buy plenty of models from somewhere else. If Ring Engineering, for whatever reason, decides to call it quits, there is no more support for product.

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
Mark Pruitt Pruitt

Some will remember Beta vs.

Some will remember Beta vs. VHS (yeah, way back in the 80's with the videotape home format battle).

Sony's Beta format had a superior picture resolution to JVC's VHS format. That was essentially uncontested. Still, VHS won out over Beta. There was one simple reason - JVC licensed all sorts of electronics companies to produce recorders with their VHS format. Sony, apparently thinking they could own the entire market, refused to license anyone else to make recorders with their format until they had essentially lost the war.

My point? Well, maybe RailPro has some advantages over DCC. But DCC is a standard supported by many manufacturers (at least to a great extent). RailPro is, to my knowledge, proprietary and all components have to come from Ring Engineering (correct me if I'm wrong). Will Ring Engineering license others to make components? 

Or will they repeat the mistake of "Sony, the one and only?"

Reply 0
AzBaja

What if Mr. Ring dies- Goodpoint

At one point years ago now,  A person made what could be called the ultimate pinball machine simulator program.  I will just say it was and still is the premier program to have for pinball simulations based on reworld pinball machines.  It was and still is a great program.    Then one day he decided he no longer wanted to make or sell the program.  All that we got is he wanted to do something new.  He never released the code for the program and from what I understand the computer that he kept the code on has died, so at this point even if he wanted to he can no longer sell new versions of the program to anyone.  So people that have a legal copy of the game with security code guard it with their lives.

Just one day,  I do not feel like make this any more,  thanks for playing.  Same thing could happen to something like Ring

AzBaja
---------------------------------------------------------------
I enjoy the smell of melting plastic in the morning.  The Fake Model Railroader, subpar at best.

Reply 0
Marc

Pro and con's

It's really interesting to discover Rail Pro, and have a better knowledge of the capability of the system.

For sure it's a step foward beside DCC

But the debate about the pro and con's of RailPro and DCC is unproductive like the fight of the difference in price.

It seems to me the focus of the debate would be a better kenowledge of RailPro and really how it works.

Some prefer DCC and I'm sure don't want to change anyway beside any better technical improvement and the same exist for the new RailPro users.

I hope to have more feedback about the system itself and not just a fight about this one is better than this one.

If this topic produce 100 pages of knowledge about both system, we still will have  pro and con's of each system.

Sadly RailPro don't seem interested to enter the Nscale market which I believe is the second scale in use.

On the run whith my Maclau River RR in Nscale

Reply 0
joef

I agree

Quote:

I hope to have more feedback about the system itself and not just a fight about this one is better than this one.

Sadly RailPro don't seem interested to enter the Nscale market which I believe is the second scale in use.

I agree -- RailPro is very cool and rather than spend a lot of time blasting DCC, RailPro needs to be better known and better understood in detail. For this reason MRH will be happy to publish RailPro how-to articles in the new Electrical Impulses column.

I also agree if RailPro was to come out with a receiver that would fit in N scale, they'd also see their HO market share jump because HO guys could always use smaller receiver modules. And you're right, the second most popular scale is N, so Mr. Ring would be clever like a fox to offer a new micro receiver that could fit in N scale locos.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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MLee

One more negative comment

To us in N scale the comparison between Railpro and DCC  is interesting but not relevant. Until Railpro and the DCC decoder manufactures acknowledge N scale exists and start making decoders that fit all N scale locos they loose ~ 20% of the market, the goodwill of N scaler's and p____ me off.

Railpro could have started with a decoder that fit in N scale and HO instead of that large thing they now sell.  As far as I am concerned they made a bad business decision.

The rest of the decoder manufacturers act like they are doing N scaler's a favor by making smaller decoders that almost fit.  More bad business decisions.

Mike Lee    

Reply 0
ctxmf74

"For this reason MRH will be

Quote:

"For this reason MRH will be happy to publish RailPro how-to articles in the new Electrical Impulses column."

 Since railpro is a  proprietary product wouldn't that amount to ongoing free advertising?  ......DaveB

Reply 0
Kriegwulfe

N-Scale not in the Cards

A long time ago I posted a reply to an e-mail sent from Ring engineering that stated N- Scale would be the last scale they would provide support for with their products with plans to work in S and O scale long before N. I love their ideas and products but the options and availability of DCC products has me hooked.

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K-Pack

Comments

Quote:

RailPro needs to be better known and better understood in detail. For this reason MRH will be happy to publish RailPro how-to articles in the new Electrical Impulses column.

Working on it Joe.  Hopefully we can get a couple articles headed your way soon.

Quote:

I also agree if RailPro was to come out with a receiver that would fit in N scale, they'd also see their HO market share jump because HO guys could always use smaller receiver modules. And you're right, the second most popular scale is N, so Mr. Ring would be clever like a fox to offer a new micro receiver that could fit in N scale locos.

I can tell you that Ring Engineering is indeed looking at N-scale, but the timeline remains to be seen.  Traditionally Ring isn't the fastest about getting new things out, but they do come out.  Most likely the hold-up now is trying to get everything to fit into a small package.  Remember that Railpro operates with Direct Radio, so a radio transceiver needs to be able to fit, along with everything else (motor control, sound, lights, DCC-capability, etc).  Ring always wanted to get the large-scale stuff done first (because it is a perfect fit for Railpro's system) before tackling small scale.  Now that the O and G scale module is out, I'm sure that Ring is looking hard at what can be done in N-scale.

Quote:

If Ring Engineering, for whatever reason, decides to call it quits, there is no more support for product.

This topic has come up on the Railpro forums.  It's a non-issue for anyone using Railpro that has commented over there.  If something happens to Ring Engineering, the products will continue to work until the electrical systems fail...and we will all be enjoying Railpro the whole time.  Worst case scenario, the locomotive modules are FULL-FUNCTIONED DCC decoders as well.  Ring Engineering goes away?  Activate DCC-mode on the modules and use them just like any normal DCC locomotive.  You won't skip a beat.

Quote:

does RailPro allow adjusting a locomotive's performance and settings?

Yes, and to clarify the point made by TwinStar regarding speed steps: DCC has different speed step modes, with the highest I believe being 128 (been a while since I've used DCC).  Railpro doesn't have speed steps per se, but has speed adjustment from 0.0% to 100.0%, going up in tenths of a percent.  The throttle knob is sensitive enough to adjust things be 0.1% precisely if you wanted to.  Does it really matter if the train is going 45.4% versus 45.5%?  Not really, but Railpro can do that.

Quote:

I wanted to speak to TwinStar's glowing endorsement of RailPro and his implication that DCC is extremely dysfunctional in comparison.

Just wanted to make the point here that TwinStar has also been critical of Railpro's shortcomings (yes, it has shortcomings just like any system....they are being addressed as they come up).  I interact with him on a regular basis on Railpro forums as well as via email, etc.  Knowing his critiquing of Railpro elsewhere, this glowing review is a more than just hype.  His experience with DCC was less than pleasant, and he has a lot of experience with DCC.  Many, many people are happy with DCC for good reason.  There are some who are not, and they are who Railpro appeals to the most.

 

-Kevin

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K-Pack

Free Advertising?

Quote:
Quote:

"For this reason MRH will be happy to publish RailPro how-to articles in the new Electrical Impulses column."

 Since railpro is a  proprietary product wouldn't that amount to ongoing free advertising?  ......DaveB

How is that different than the DCC column talking about other DCC manufacturer's, or Ken Patterson's What's Neat This Week talking about ESU's Loksound or Soundtraxx's sound features?  Ring Engineering is a MRH sponsor just like the other companies are.  Nothing free about that.

 

-Kevin

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