I Agree

I remember the cast boilers with limited detail. Not much better than a Marx engine in HO. I just recently acquired one of the newest releases from Intermountain of a SP Cab Forward and the detail is amazing. They also run very nice as well.

Most of my recent steam purchases have been light years ahead of the early steam from the 60'-80's. I also have a couple of brass engines (1980's vintage) that are not as nice in the detail or running dept. as the newer offerings.

Espee over Donner

My first HO steam locomotive

My first HO steam locomotive was an Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific. I honestly do not remember what ever happened to it. My next was a Mantua 2-8-2 heavy Mikado kit. Took forever to build it and it ran like . . .  let me just say that it didn't run well. I also had an Aristo Craft 2-8-0 Consolidation. It ran OK, but only OK. It broke down regularly needing repairs. After that (about 1963) I gave up steam and converted myself to diesels where I remained until about five years ago.

Today I have not a single diesel for my layout. I am 100% steam and very, very pleased to be so. I have Broadway, Bachmann, Proto 2000, and Trix (Marklin) steam locomotives and all look great and run unbelievably well. Knowing this, it is hard to imagine that HO steam used to be such junk or high priced brass locomotives that sometimes ran well and other times didn't.

Jim Six 

Steam vs Diesels, and plastic too

Steam engines are just SO MUCH more exciting to view and watch running,...for me. And the detail in them is so much more demanding of the maker.

The past 10-15 years of the development of ever increasing detailed plastic model locos has been exciting itself. I believe the old LifeLike company with their then new Proto 2000 series really help kick things off, then they brought out the that Heritage 2-8-8-2 loco that set the industry on fire. It brought on a number of competitors, and we the public benefited.
http://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2005/06/life-like-proto-2000-ho-scale-2-8-8-2-portrays-the-usras-largest-steam-locomotive

Unbelievable how good plastic molding has become. And unbelievable how good our steam loco models have become.

Here is one I wish they would do, the C&O H7
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/co-h7-loco-ho-scale-in-modern-plastic-12207503

And here is a plastic Allegheny I have

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/c-o-allegeheny-sound.11423/page-6

What today's steamers are made of

Today's so-called plastic steam locomotives are not really plastic. Instead, there are mostly metal and detailed with engineering plastic detail items. These plastic details are a new plastic that holds paint very well. The boilers and in some cases are cast metal. So, they are really composite construction of a few different materials.

Jim Six

Wow Brian, that is a

Wow Brian, that is a fantastic looking locomotive!!!

Jim Six

 In N scale too we have

In N scale too we have now good running steam locomotives, so much better than the first Atlas/Rivarossi.

Knowing Atlas has recently acquired Life Like N scale; I'm waiting for a new run of the Proto series which were so beautiful and excellent runner.

In N scale and HO the future for steam  is for sure exciting for all of us.

Modern Steam

Jim, I cannot disagree that modern ready to run steam locomotives, look great and run great, but they are slowly being priced out of my price range. Back when I was still in HO in the 1970's and 1980's, I did own several Rivarossi Steam Locomotives. For the time they looked and ran pretty nice, but like what is happening today they started in my price range and slowly the price rose out of what I could afford. It seems more and more modern steam locomotives are coming from the factory DCC + Sound equipped, plus all the added detail which in my opinion is causing the price to rise.

When I run my steam locomotives, I generally turn the sound off. Why? For the past 35 years I've been working in very noisy work environments and that exposure to loud noises has now cause tinnitus in both ears. As time goes on I find myself trying to avoid noise. So herein lies the problem, I have to purchase a product with an option I'd prefer not to use and this option is causing the product to be priced out of what I can afford.

I do own the older N scale Bachmann 2-8-0 DC version, the model looks great and runs fantastic, but the motor fills the cab. I also own the Bachmann N scale DCC + Sound K4 and the N scale DCC + Sound Berkshire. They both run great and look very nice. I'd love to purchase the new Bachmann 2-8-0 with the hidden motor and cab interior, but I almost fell over when I saw both the list price and even the discounted price.

Where do we draw the line, currently it seems everyone wants super detailed locomotives with tie creeping slow speed, DCC and sound, but at what point do these wants start driving folks out of the hobby because of cost? What happens when manufactures no longer make a DC only version of the locomotive you need for your roster? It's a fine line and I don't have all the answers, but I can tell you ever time a see a new locomotive released I have sticker shock.

In N scale too we have

Hi Marc,

This is good to hear. I did not comment on N-scale because I have no experience there. Since you are an N-scaler please feel free to share more with us.

Thank you,

Jim Six

Rich - Modern Steam

I hear you Rich. Your comments are interesting.

I am not alarmed by the cost of today's model steam locomotives because diesels are just as expensive (for what you get). Both steam and diesel prices are slowly rising, but so are the prices of everything else too.

Steam locomotive generally operate alone so only one is needed per train. Diesels rarely operate alone so two or three are needed to pull a train (realistically). With this in mind on the average it is more expensive to operate with diesels!   < grin>

Jim Six

In another topic we were

In another topic we were discussing the color of steam locomotives. My PRR 2-10-0 is factory painted with weathering added by me. Out of the box, the model was not black. It wasn't Brunswick Green either. Instead it was a grimy black which makes it a simple matter to weather. I edited out some of the background to better see the profile of the model.

Jim Six

Click on photo to enlarge

I haven't seen the newer

I haven't seen the newer plastic steam locos run yet, but hopefully can find some examples of them running on the net.

I'm wondering if any of the plastic HO scale steam locos have the same designs in regards to drives that are seen in the newer brass locos.

I'm hoping the Rapido steam locos that will be coming in the future run just as well as models made by Boo Rim.

Excellent work!

Jim you did your usual fine job on the weathering. It looks like if I touched it I'd be covered with grime, grease and soot. I also like what Brian did with the Allegheny. When I look at Jack Delano's photos from the 30s, the weathering seems to be as much brown as gray or black.

Hat's off to both of you

Mike

I love steam.

There. I said it.

Not my weathering

Just to let you know Mike, I did not do that weathering on the Allegheny. I bought it like that off of eBay.

Funny thing is I put a low bid on it thinking it was 'overdone' and might not bring that many bids. Well it didn't and all of a sudden I received a notice I had won. I took another look at what I had won, and said to myself,...mistake.
 

When I got it in the mail I was overjoyed. Its now one of my favorites. I even got a matching aux water tender with it, ....which I am sure the prototype never used.

Or not

The steam engines I use have a greatly improved drive from the 1970's, many still need additional pickups on the tenders, but the superstructure is minimally improved from the 1970's.

@ Dave Husman. Indeed Dave,

@ Dave Husman.

Indeed Dave, one only has to watch a Samhongsa model from the 1980s run then a Boo Rim model from the 2000's to notice the improvement in drives. I've seen some of those models with open motors run from the 1970's, and never was impressed by them though most of the the drives in them were fine and worked well after installing a good cam motor.

Modern Steam

Hi Jim, That is why I decided to model a branch line that serves a small town. My short trains look good with one MP15DC, GP38-2 or 2-8-0 doing the honors. From time to time I run my PRR 4-6-2 and NKP 2-8-4 on the branch with 80's Conrail rolling stock, the back story being the branch line operator is helping with shake down runs on the restored steam locomotives.

Another option can be taken from the Arcade and Attica or the Strasburg Railroads. I do not know if the A&A still handles any freight operations, but I do know the Strasburg still handles some freight traffic. Talk about a neat juxtaposition of old and new. I know you're firmly planted in a time period before the Great Depression, where I float back and forth between the early 60's and early 80's. So a short line with a steam operation helps me get my steam fix from time to time Also remember I get enough reality 5 days a week, my little branch line is all fantasy (not whimsy, more what if) and that's OK with me. 

Also almost forgot to mention, your Pennsy Decapod looks great. My P-company Pacific looks black with the graphic smoke box. 

What I heard from some of the old timers, Brunswick green was 5 gallons of green mixed into a 55 gallon drum of black, there is just a tint in bright sun light, but over all the paint looks black. Your layout looks great and I hope someday to be able to join you for an ops session. 

Wow

That's a nice looking Hippo!

Mike in CO

I love the looks of some of

I love the looks of some of the more recent steam, but I must admit that when they fail, I'm far less interested in the repair work.

the club the athearn 2-8-2 with the classic split gear. I have the NWSL replacement gear, a puller 2 and instructions...and I'm just afraid to start. Just thinking about pulling the running gear off gives me shivers. To be fair, some modern diesels give me equal stress. I also personally have a Bachmann 2-10-2 which doesn't run smooth, I think it's also a bum gear, but I'm not sure.

And removing all the delicate parts to even get the bottom off is a challenge

And as noted before, the price has skyrocketed. Even compared to a few years ago. The amazing thing from 10-15 years ago was how affordable Bachmann made their new, better steam. No longer.

Certainly modern plastic

Certainly modern plastic steamers run better than vintage brass. But for appearance, I think vintage brass is still generally better than even the newest plastic. 

How?

Brass locos compromise on part thicknesses much less. Running boards and such are generally much closer to scale thickness than are plastic models.

There's good reason for the compromises in plastic - it requires much thicker material to stand up to a given level of handling than does hardened brass. So I'm not being critical.

I model the steam era, and have my share of "modern" plastic locos. They run great and they don't (quite) break the bank in cost. They're the backbone of my fleet. But closely compare a BLI or Proto 2000 plastic steamer with the Sunset Models NP Z-8 Challenger or their new Burlington O-5 and you will see the difference. The brass models appear (at least to my eye) to be much more exacting in scale (as they should, with a cost more than twice most plastic!). Plus the Sunset Models run every bit as well as premium plastic locos (other modern steam I can't comment on, having no experience running them).

Is brass worth the cost above plastic? Only the purchaser can decide. 

I haven't seen the newer Thu,

Here you go a pair of 2-6-6-6 locos by Rivarossi one pushing one pulling and I believe 105 cars in between Climbing a curving grade that peaks at about 3%. Cars are between 1 and 2 ozs over the NMRA recommended practice.

Much appreciated, Rob; I'll

Much appreciated, Rob; I'll watch it now.

Much appreciated, Rob;

You are welcome, there are several more on my you tube channel in the video section, the link to it is in my signature.

Wobbly Lemons

I think I must have a few lemons, because I have had a run of bad luck with getting steam to glide down the track instead of wobble and wiggle and shimmy.  Yes, I know the real things nosed and 'hunted' a bit at certain speeds on uneven track...that's not what I'm talking about.  It could be that quality control just isn't as good on certain brands, though I have had the problem on two locos, built 3 decades apart in different countries.  Wheels badly pressed onto the axles - not perpendicular, has been the issue in each case.

That said, I do agree with everything that's been said so far.  In HO we have a pretty good selection, though there could be more variety.  Interesting observations on brass vs. plastic - I hadn't thought of it that way.

My current steam project is an IHC 2-6-0.  See my blog for progress and updates:

http://ocalicreek.blogspot.com

Galen