Deemiorgos

I turned over the loco I intend to make all wheel pick up, and to my dismay, found all this detail that will definitely make it a major challenge.

drivers.jpg 

%20truck.jpg 

CUTtruck.jpg 

Reply 4
Michael Graff Graffen

The wonders of brass

The wonders of brass tuning.

The tender trucks are rather easy. Small pieces of circuit board in the bolster with short phosphor bronze wire soldered on.

The frame is trickier...

I would probably install Pilz pickups. Sure, you need to drill holes in the sideframes behind the wheels to fit them. But they work so good.

 

Michael Graff, cultural heritage advisor for the Church of Sweden.

"Deo adjuvante labor proficit"

Reply 3
Marc

Keeping the details

The only way to keep free the bottom details is I believe to put new electrical contact above the frame, between the boiler and the bottom detailed frame; the same about the tender truck; the contact would be side contact on the inner side of the wheels but on the top side of the truck if you have place to put them.

May be on the tender, use the same way as N scale modern tender locomotives, there is contact pads on the Inside floor tender and like side washer on the side truck with a contact wich touch the fixed pads in the floor tender

This work quiet well in N scale, Kato and Bachmann use this system on their tender.

For the loco, may be a similar system of contact could be imagined but difficult to build.

Anyway I feel it would be difficult to not altered the bottom frame details somewhere.

Marc

On the run whith my Maclau River RR in Nscale

Reply 3
Michael Graff Graffen

Nice source of information.

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/loco%20kit%20pages/Pickups%20Information.html

 

Michael Graff, cultural heritage advisor for the Church of Sweden.

"Deo adjuvante labor proficit"

Reply 5
hminky

There is this:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/bachmann_4-4-0/sound/

The tender trucks:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/mogul_tsunami/

Thank you if you visit

Harold

Reply 2
Bernd

Two Mantua Upgrades

The first all wheel electrical pick-up project was a Mantua 0-4-0 with tender resulted in a 12 wheel pickup.

 

Pick-ups on the engine.

Pick-ups on the tender.

Find the how-to details here:  
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/15986


A Mantua 2-6-6-2 with 20 wheel pick-up.

The engine.

The 12 pick-ups on the engine.

The 8 pick-up's on the tender.

Find the how-to details here: 
https://railroad-line.com/node/35089

I've also added an 8 wheel improved pick system to a blue box Athearn chassis. I still need to pictures of this project.

Bernd

New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds - NCSWIC

Reply 5
Prof_Klyzlr

Mantua Mallets... memories...

Dear Bernd,

Yep, some years ago I added pickups to a friend's tender-version Mantua Mallet, which was destined for full-time show operation. The Leading and Trailing trucks were replaced with one-piece "logging loco type" PSC brass castings, so they provided "one side pickup" each. (The wheelsets were insulated on one side with paper between the wheel and tyre, so the conductive wheel, via the casting, to the frame mount screw made a solid electrical path). 

The 6x driver axles were equipped with wipers on their "insulated sides", to go from "3 points per side" to "6 points per side",

and the tender trucks (replaced with Kadee trucks and wheels) had phosphor bronze wipers added,
made from Kadee #5 centring springs IIRC.

The resulting loco had a pickup footprint over 12" long, and just could-not-be-stopped,
even under literal "can _see_ the dust hanging in the air" basketball-court exhibition conditions....

"All wheel pickup, all the time"... 
...not just something cool to say, but Words to Live By...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 3
Bernd

The 0-4-0 Switcher

Dear Prof,

The 0-4-0 was done for a friend. With the decoder installed and the all wheel pick up it would crawl over an insulated frog with out a stutter. The same goes for the 2-6-6-2 Mallet, only it's plain DC. Thanks for the comments.

Bernd

New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds - NCSWIC

Reply 3
Bernd

Atheran BB pick-ups

Here's the picture I promised about the Atheran BB truck pick-ups. This addition turns all four wheels of one truck into four wheel pick-up. With both trucks done this way you will get eight wheel pick-up

The wires to the motor still need to be soldered on.

Bernd

New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds - NCSWIC

Reply 3
Mark R.

DCC ?

If you are using DCC = add a stay alive capacitor and be done. I used to install all the extra wipers on brass engine wheels and tender trucks until they came out with the stay alive modules. Now just solder two wires and done.

If you are still using DC .... well .... you're going to have to add them wipers.

 

Mark.

Reply 4
Deemiorgos

Wow, quite the solutions and

Wow, quite the solutions and tidy ones at that.

I think I can squeeze in a strip across the frame of the chassis in here between the drivers and the wheels of the bogie.

u%20plan.jpg 

CLUplan.jpg 

I think I'll focus more on a 8 wheel pick up on the tender.

In the meantime, I'll check out the links and find out where to get some fine flexible wire. Thank you all, and I'll keep you posted.

 

Reply 3
Graeme Nitz OKGraeme

A good source...

...of flexible wire for pickups is an old telephone charger cable. Free!

Graeme Nitz

An Aussie living in Owasso OK

K NO W Trains

K NO W Fun

 

There are 10 types of people in this world,

Those that understand Binary and those that Don't!

Reply 3
hminky

Tender pickup is the most important....

Have an old MDC old time 2-8-0 that I added sound and tender pickup.

Never got around to adding pickup to the loco and the loco runs over EZ-track and Atlas Code 100 with no problems.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1905/roundhouse_sound/

Thank you if you visit

Harold

Reply 2
Bernd

Flexiable Wire

Dear   Deemiorgos

I used .010" or .015" phosphor bronze wire from Tichy.  Anything thicker has to much friction.

LINK: http://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop.aspx?SearchValue=phoshpor+bronze+wire

Still a great option to add wipers even if you have a "stay alive" capacitor for those extra long dirty track sections in a tunnel were it's hard to clean the track.

Bernd

New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds - NCSWIC

Reply 3
Deemiorgos

Indeed Bernd, One on of my

Indeed Bernd,

One on of my older locos that I did ages ago, I noticed the wire is too thick for a pick up and may cause wear in the wheel:

20tender.jpg 

Limited knowledge and skills I had back then.

 

Reply 3
Deemiorgos

I concur Harold,I was

I concur Harold,

I was checking out how I did one of my older locos ages ago and realized I only put a pick up on one of the tender's trucks.

20tender.jpg 

I intend to do a much tidier job on my newer loco's tender's trucks.

Reply 3
Deemiorgos

I cleaned up the wheels on

I cleaned up the wheels on two of my older locos, that have only one truck on the tender with wipers; I put on ages ago.

IMG_6096.jpg 

_6094(1).jpg 

They run well now through the curve I was having an issue with.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/31337

rking(1).jpg 

Must have been dirty wheels on the trucks of the tender, but I'm still going to set up the other truck with a tidier wiper.

I'll do this while doing the trucks on the newer loco, but I have to get some wire first.

truck(1).jpg 

Reply 3
mikecartabiano

All Wheel Pickup

I restore and add DCC to old and new brass steam locos and diesels. After about 200 of these I found the steam engine itself does not usually need wipers. There are enough wheels to pickup power and data packets for the decoder however the pathway to the decoder is not optimized as the model builders do not design nor build for a DCC installation. You must insure the pathway to the decoder is a good metal to metal contact. This requires some serious disassembly of the drivers. If you do this, clean paint from the frame journals. Remove old lubricant. Blow out the axle journals with electrical contact cleaner that id plastic safe ( DO NOT BREATH THE FUMES. WEAR A MASK) and air dry with a can of compressed air. Re-lube these with Neverstall from Daylight Sales. Make sure the driver tires are very clean. DO NOT use alcohol to clean these. Use while mineral spirits.

Make sure the red wire from the decoder to the loco has a clean, solid mount to the loco frame.

Use a reliable micro connector from the decoder to the engine if it is installed in the tender. TCS sells a line of plugs with multiple pin options. For the best connection, hard wire the tender and engine using 30 gauge, copper, stranded flex wire. However your won't be able to pack the engine away in its original box.

For the tender, pickups on both sides of the wheels is a good idea but not necessary if the tender weighs about 4-6 oz. or more. I find a reliable connection can be made if the following is done but the trucks must be removed from the tender and disassembled:

1. Remove burrs and polish the truck frame bolster and mating tender bolster. This is to optimize truck rotation and does not improve electrical. That is done in step 2.

2. Solder pickup wires (30 gauge, stranded flex wire) from the truck bolster directly to the decoder. Remove the trucks. The wire will be soldered to the top of the bolster out of sight when assembled. The attachment point must not interfere with truck or axle movement. Make sure the tender bolster brass is very clean and use a hot iron( 40W) to tin the bolster.and while the solder is puddled, place the pre-tinned wire end into the solder. Drill a pass through hole out of sight in the tender frame. De-burr this to make sure the wire insulation is not cut. Touch up the bare brass with a matching paint.

3. The tender axle journals are often not clean or uniform in shape. This makes for a bad connection. I drill these out with a drill that is .005 larger than the journal. Do not go deeper than the existing hole. After drilling, blow out shavings and clean the journal with mineral spirits. Lube the journals with Neverstall. Make sure the axle ends are clean. Re-assemble the trucks. Make sure all wheels touch the rail surface. Use a surface plate ( granite counter top, piece of heavy glass) and try to lightly pass a sheet of copy paper under the wheels. It should not pass under any wheel. If the paper passes under any wheel it is not touching the rail. Twist the truck frame slightly until all wheels touch.

4. Polsih the tender wheels if these are oxidized, the plating is worn or the pitted. Use a Dremel at mid speed with a buffing wheel and Flitz polishing compound. Micro Mark sells this. Clean the Flitz from the wheels using mineral spirits.

5. Re-assembel the trucks and install to the tender. Make sure the insulated wheels are on the right side of the tender and opposite to the insulated wheels on the locomotive.

Good luck.

 

Michael Cartabiano

President, Durango DCC 

Reply 5
DougL

thanks, good advice on brass tender pickup

Thanks for the info how to improve brass tender trucks.  I never considered the wheels might not all touch the track, most of my tender trucks are flexible but a few are rigid.  In the future I will be aware of it and correct as needed.

Deemiorgos, I added wipers to a detailed tender truck similar to the one in your photo, using N-scale PC board ties on top of the truck bolster to avoid the brake rigging detail.  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/adding-allwheel-pickup-to-brass-steam-locos-12211700   It was a bit fiddly ensuring the pickups would not touch the frame when it swiveled, but it worked.  I prefer .0125 dia. wire from Tichy train group.  That splits the difference of the .010 to .015 wire suggested previously, just my preference, all 3 sizes are OK.

--  Doug -- Modeling the Norwottuck Railroad, returning trails to rails.

Reply 2
railandsail

my 0-4-4T

I may have to revisit this subject thread numerous times when I get around to adding DCC to my locos,....this one for example

%20ps600.jpg 

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/044t-switcher-identify-small-steam-engine-12213177

 

Excellent thread and good photos

 

 

Reply 3
railandsail

The 0-4-0 was done for a

Quote:

The 0-4-0 was done for a friend. With the decoder installed and the all wheel pick up it would crawl over an insulated frog with out a stutter.

Bernd

I assume you changed out the motor in order to run DCC??

And with DCC did you have any reason to use a flywheel?....not really needed with DCC control of a decent motor??

Could you make it crawl without regearing?

Reply 2
Deemiorgos

@Doug, Thanks for the info. I

@Doug,

Thanks for the info. I also replied to your email.

Regards,

Deem

Reply 2
DougL

@Deem - did not get you email, can contact directly

For whatever reason I did not get your reply.

You can contact me at delowing

the google mail

--  Doug -- Modeling the Norwottuck Railroad, returning trails to rails.

Reply 1
Deemiorgos

I sent another email

I sent another email yesterday, Doug. I'll try again.

Reply 1
Deemiorgos

Doug,I just got the goods.

Doug,

I just got the goods. Project will commence this autumn.

Will email you when I get home tonight.

Will soon post the contenders : )

Reply 1
Reply