Electrical contact

I bet improving electrical contacts on the tender would help.

I'm hoping so, Dave. Will

I'm hoping so, Dave. Will keep you posted.

Check your front end??

Hi Deem,

From the overhead shots comparing where the front knuckle couple is with respect to the outer rail on the curve, it looks like something could be stiff in the front end. It might just be the long body but...

Things to check

• the bogie pivot and reach arm on the front bogie are free to swivel
• that front bogie isn't being trapped by the chassis area behind the cylinders - This will be hard to check  through the curve
• the rear bogie can pivot freely
• the rear bogie frame is clear to swing without fouling the firebox, injector pipework, etc
• any problems in any of these areas effectively increase the fixed wheelbase of the locomotive and will add to the frictional drag going through the curve. 

I'm not sure if this helps or hinders, but you did ask 

Thanks John. I checked the

Thanks John.

I checked the front truck/bogie - swiveling freely with a lot of play withing the rails; the rails are tad wider, as it is ME code 55 HO flex track. I think they make flex track this way purposely.

The rear bogie/truck is good also.

I also checked the large wheels to see if their treads were tight up against the inner rails on the curve; not so.

So it seems I can rule out the loco's wheels moving through the curve. i.e., frictional drag. Out of curiosity, I'm going to run it on a tighter radius i.e., set up some Kato snap track on the dinning room table.

I don't have time to bridge-wire the tender; hopefully later this month.

Slow Curves

Hi Deem,

My recent dynamometer car trials may give some indication:

First, look for out of gauge track (particularly narrow gauge) and possible out of gauge wheels in combination. Moving through a curve can cause additional binding that can increase the motor load.

Next, check for uneven track -- side to side through the switch. You may loose tracking force from the loco if a wheel is going over a rail "valley" even if you can't see a gap between the wheel and the rail.

Next check the curve with a weighted loco with a shorter and longer driver wheel base and see if it makes a difference -- preferably as stiff (unsprung) as this loco.

Last, measure the current draw through the curve going as slow as possible. If you get a significant increase in current draw the loco is binding. If you get a noticeable drop in current draw you are loosing wheel contact somewhere in the curve.

'Hope this helps. Have fun! 

Geoff, now if I can only find

Geoff, now if I can only find my meter. Might have to buy one. I wonder if "The Source" sells them.

Very informative! Thank you.

I tried a heavy brass 2-8-0 and a my longest heavy loco - 2-8-2 through the curve with no problems, but they are bridge-wired and the tender's trucks are not stiffly sprung.

In the meantime, I will check the turnout and track for unevenness.

Meter

Yes, I am sure you could find one at The Source but Canadian Tire might be cheaper. They regularly put their meters on sale. Also if you are near a Princess Auto they have them for cheap as well. I'm using quite a fancy one I bought on Amazon.ca that was around $25.

 "as it is ME code 55 HO flex

This is fairly small rail for HO scale.  Could this engine have bigger flanges than the other steamers that run thru ok? Perhaps the flanges are contacting the track weathering or ballast glue residue? .......DaveB

DaveB, the flanges are the

DaveB, the flanges are the same size like my oldest brass loco from the nineteen-eighties, which goes through well with its flanges. I had a friend that had older brass models from the sixties and seventies that ran well on code 55, but not on his code 4O HO scale rail sidings so he had his wheel's flanges turned when he had his locos rebuilt.

I'm going to pull out a piece of code 55 flex and make a similar or tighter radius to see if this loco has a problem.

Greg, I went for a walk to

Greg, I went for a walk to The Source, and they no longer carry them, sheesh! I'll have to go to Canadian Tire tomorrow.

Well, I made a slightly

Well, I made a slightly tighter radius with HO scale code 55 rail

and the loco run through it smoothly

even at a craw.

So far I can rule out the radius being the problem.

Then I made the track uneven... and it affected its performance in that it made its crawling inconsistent.

I checked the track on the layout and the turnout and it appears to have a miniscule dip on the outer rail where the siding and turnout meet.

One more track area to check

When your loco runs North (up in the photo), could the left-side drive wheels be binding between the left rail (at the frog) and the left guard rail?   Maybe the gap between the left rail and its guard rail is too narrow.

One more track area to check

When your loco runs North (up in the photo), could the left-side drive wheels be binding between the left rail (at the frog) and the left guard rail?   Maybe the gap between the left rail and its guard rail is too narrow.

MtRR75, the problem occurs

MtRR75, the problem occurs when the loco's wheels and tender's wheels are not on the frog. The problem is not consistent, as sometimes the loco goes through smoothly and other times it doesn't.

I suspect it might be the springs are too stiff/ridged. I haven't run this loco much; it has spent most of its life in a box.

Well I think I figured it

Well I think I figured it out. I removed the springs from the tender's trucks and it improved a bit.  Then I put it through the turnout and curve at an extreme crawl and it stopped at one point... I took a skewer and applied a little pressure down onto the truck

and it moved!

Also I notice the drawbar that goes on the pin on the tender doesn't slide up and down easy as it does on my other locos. This is probably why I bridge-wired my brass locos decades ago to have all wheel pick up on the tenders.

Gremlins

Your layout has gremlins. There is no cure. Give all your trains to me. 

I'm rid of most of them, Greg

I'm rid of most of them, Greg ; ) For me it is usually the turnouts, as I use handmade ones. I usually have to tweak them to accommodate the brass locos; some brass locos drivers are not bang on to NMRA standards so I have to do minuscule adjustments to the guardrails and between the rail points and rail; fortunately never to the frogs. (I'm no way going to attempt to take a loco apart to put my drivers in a wheel puller) I'm glad this minor tweaking of the turnouts doesn't affect my other motive power and rolling stock running through them.

I am finicky when it comes to brass models. One of the other things that irks me about brass locos is that they usually need some sort of tweaking not to mention improper placement of numbers, stripes, heralds, etc on factory painted ones.I wonder if anyone has ever made a steam loco in brass with all wheel pick up on the tenders. Sometimes I think the folk that make them think they will be mostly on display and rarely run on track. Such is the woes of the brass collector. The only reason I buy them, is the steam locos I want do not come in plastic.

I must say that I do like how smooth they run and how they crawl especially through turnouts after I bridge-wire their tenders.

 "I usually have to tweak

I have to do the same thing with my TT scale turnouts due to lack of standardization between manufacturers ,old and new and US and foreign. I usually can come up with a compromise that works, it mostly requires figuring out the guard rail spacing so the wheels don't bind up on the back to back clearance. :> ) ....DaveB 

DaveB, even Rapido has had

DaveB, even Rapido has had wheels gauged improperly at times, but at least they will send you replacements or offer to replace the model; not so for the brass model makers ; ) The odd thing is it is usually only one out of the other drivers that is off on a brass model.

Same here in regards to the guard rails.

For some reason, on my old inglenook that has code 83 Streamline turnouts, my brass models went through them well; they must allow some give for the lack of standardization between manufacturers.

Well, I return to this thread

Well, I return to this thread after I bridge-wire the loco.

Jamming Loco

Deemiorgos,

i am not one of this fellows with white cotton gloves, instead my brass loco have to be reliable pulling power my trains. My philosophy is, that rolling stock and track work have to be conform to each other according the NMRA standards. First, this concludes, if necessary, the pulling and aligning of brass steamer drivers too. The counterpart is the track work, here too i pay attention to conformity to the NMRA Standards.

This extreme example is presumably the cause for your loco slowing down. Here the width between back to back of the wheels is too narrow causing it jamming between frog and guard rail or even riding up.

Second, make a secure current pick up:

8 wheel pick up, pilot and trailing wheels are sprung loaded. Note styrene sheet under pilot, avoid shorts on not so even track.

Also 8 wheel pick up. Also the trucks are equalized, in some cases i made earth wipers too. The RP37 coupling between loco and tender has no electrical function anymore, only mechanical function. Further loco and tender have the same polarity, enabled by placing the insulated tender wheels on the same side as the loco ones.

These are some of arrangements i made to get them as near as perfect for hassle free running.

My two €ents

Lutz

I love your two cents,

I love your two cents, Lutz.

I have question though:

On the loco, what are the wipers soldered to? I'm guessing whatever they are soldered to are insulated from the bottom plate of the loco. And do the wires go directly to the motor? It seems that the way you wired it, the loco could run without the tender, correct?

I don't quite understand "placing the insulated tender wheels on the same side as the loco ones." I'm guessing the insulated wheels on the loco is the side that has no pick up.

I like how you neatly hid the wires to the trucks by having them go into the tender. Nice impressive tidy work.

"I don't quite understand

   Hi Dee, in the old days steam engines would have the insulated wheels on one side and their tenders would have the insulated wheels on the other side. This allowed the engine to pick up positive and negative power  thru the axels so no wipers were needed. As folks got more picky about the running characteristics it became more common for the engines to have all wheel pickup with wipers on the insulated wheels too. When you add wipers it simplifies the task if you also put the insulated wheels on the same side of the engine and the tender, that way the drawbar doesn't need to be insulated. ......DaveB

DaveB,So one would just turn

DaveB,

So one would just turn around the wheels within the trucks then apply the wipers? Then you could de-insulate the drawbar? I take it those strips are insulated between the trucks and the bottom plate of the loco somehow.