ProtoThrottle

First up, a video showcasing the use of the ProtoThrottle in operation, including a few notes on my personal configuration preferences:

Secondly, a video focusing on some additional ProtoThrottle features related to the reverser and brake functions:

...and here are the individual values of CVs 67-94 that make up that curve, set in the LokProgrammer's Manual CV input tab (that I've found to be a far easier method of inputting speed curve values than updating each Index and its associated value in the Motor Settings tab above):

As mentioned in the recent  Restricting speeds to grow your layout thread, after much experimentation, I've configured my decoders (all Loksound) to a max speed for yard consists of 8mph to represent the prototype's 10mph speed limit within yard limits/restricted speed, with a max speed of 12 mph for the road consists to simulate the prototype's 25mph max.  These are the speeds seen in the above videos.  To me, the prototype speeds seem too fast (far too fast, in the case of the road consists) when applied to a layout with much tighter curves and more compressed scenes, but these "compressed speeds" seem just right.  I don't want the speed to seem either fast or slow, but just "there", and for me, these values have provided that experience.

The flat speed curves still offer great granularity of control in the lower notches (1-5).  The PT allows you to fine-tune the speed of each notch individually for each consist, so I have all my road consists dialed in as follows:

Notch  MPH

1          2

2          5

3          8

4         10

5         12

6         12

7         12

8         12

Yard consists are similar, but top out at 8mph in notches 5-8.

ProtoThrottle size

One other thing I should note:  In the earlier ProtoThrottle threads here, some had expressed concern over its size.  However, please note in the videos above that, with the Love Handle strap on the back, I'm operating the PT with one hand while holding the phone/camera with the other.  It requires some thumb gymnastics at times, but I can assure you that once you start using the PT, the size isn't a factor at all.  You're too busy having fun to even think about it!

Joe the only thing that could

Joe the only thing that could have been better was running the train over your entire layout! I would have gladly watched trains running for an hour or more. The speed curves work great for your setting but might need to be different for different settings. With a railroad that typically runs on what many would consider slow orders your ideas look real good. The really nice thing about the set up is if a slightly different max speed is desired  one can follow your example and set one up for  a different curve and be happy as well.  The non used speed steps that just increase the sound effects are a great idea!

Thanks for sharing

Thank you

I cannot wait for June delivery. Great videos Joe, glad you shared.

TomO

Thank you

Rob - Absolutely, I think the same general idea of the flattened speed curves could be used on higher speed railroads.  As the speed got higher, you'd want fewer notches to be "flat", which would make sense since locomotives would have to be in a higher notch in order to reach those higher speeds anyway. 

By the way, I had hoped to make it over the entire layout in that first video, but my iPhone ran out of space at the 7:00 mark, even with only two photos on it.  If I just hadn't talked so long at the beginning I think I could have made it!  I only had to round one more corner before reaching Atlantic, and then I'd have been in staging. 

Tom - Thank you!  Nice to know someone can make use of this stuff.  Hopefully it makes more sense once people actually have the PTs in their hands.

Flat speed curve

Speed curve

It's not really meant to make the locomotives sound faster, but to just sound like they're working harder at times - just the same as if you were using Loksound's Drive Hold, engaging it at your notch 5 speed, but then notching the throttle up to 6, 7, or 8 to simulate slight grades, a heavier train, etc.  If the grades were more serious, or the train was so heavy, that the locomotives couldn't maintain track speed, then I'd still use Drive Hold to "lock in" a lower speed and ramp the throttle up.

The problem I was trying to solve is that I wanted to configure a top speed that was realistic for my prototype's speed limit, but didn't want my crews to have to be in notch 8 in order to reach it.  Doing so, for my prototype, is not only unrealistic, but the sound gets on my nerves after a while, even though I'm running everything at only 10-15% of max volume.  The flattened speed curve is the perfect alternative, and comes with the added bonus of reducing the need for Drive Hold.

Don't get me wrong, because I REALLY enjoy Drive Hold and the operational flexibility it offers me, and I still use it a lot for starting a train, running light power, and operating a heavy train that can't maintain track speed.  However, if I can avoid the additional button-pressing for other actions, I'm good with that too.

Where is the steam version

OK I am reaching a bit (only a little) , but for us modeling steam or transition era we need a bunch of notches (Johnson bar or screw / reach rod). The last steam cab I was in had 15+ notches and for the most of the rest of the world with screw based "reverses" (no notches but infinitely adjustable). Just pointing out that this "throttle" covers the US, but misses a significant portion of the North America and world.

I truly like and appreciative what you have designed and are building for the US diesel world, but most of my models are steamers?

Reverser reconfigure

I am going to have to try that Reverser swap. That is a good idea for when I need to swap ends on my local power. You should see what I have to do on the real thing. It’s actually not that bad but I bet a simple reconfigure change on the PT is a lot easier.

I guess because I tend to operate my PT similar to the prototype, I totally use the brake lever. It is just natural to me, plus on the real thing it times out the alerter when the independent is fully applied. Remember the runaway train incident they made a movie about? The engineer had put independent brake on full and left the Reverser in forward and instead of going to idle, put the throttle in notch 8. The power took off and since the brake was on the alerter never came on to shut the power off.

I also use Drive Hold a pretty good bit, especially if I need to travel more than 4 or 5 car lengths or to simulate getting a heavy cut of cars started. The large auxiliary button makes it super easy to know when it is active. Running with the PT is much more enjoyable than a standard controller, especially during switching operations in the yard or working industries. It’s a game changer. That is for sure.

Thanks for sharing more of your outstanding layout Joe. I look forward to more.

Tim Garland

NCE/reverser/consist

One of the nice things about NCE consists is the method of picking the lead locomotive.

If I select the address of the "left-most" locomotive, it is designated lead, and "forward" on the throttle responds accordingly.

If I then select the address of the "right-most" locomotive, it becomes the lead, and "forward" on the throttle works according to the new locomotive's setting.

I'm hoping that the Proto-throttle doesn't get in the way of that nice feature. Since I think it's actually handled in the command station, I'm guessing it won't get in the way. Maybe one of the team members can verify that.

Thanks,gs

NCE Advanced Consists

GS,

I have an NCE system and so I can tell you my experience. I regularly run a set of SD40-2s with the PT that I set up as an Advanced Consist with my NCE system. One is SC 3014 and the other is SC 3013. They are both back to back so I can run short hood either way. When I built the consist with the NCE controller I established the 3014 as the lead and the 3013 as the trailing unit. 

On the PT if I select the 3014 then the Reverser responds correctly in the same orientation as the locomotive. If I Select the 3013 on the PT it will still move the consist but the Reverser direction is backwards. With this Reverser reconfiguration that Joe mentioned in his video now whenever I choose the 3013 all I have to do is reconfigure the Reverser setting and I can run it in the same orientation as the way the locomotive is facing.

Tim

Altering max speed

I received a question via email that I thought I'd share here in case others were wondering the same thing:

Thanks Tim, looking forward

Thanks Tim, looking forward to seeing the mailman approaching with a package. 

gs

Reverser swap

There's been some mention of trying to assign that to a function so that other assignments could swap ends as part of the same action.  For example, today I have the lower right LCD button assigned to F5, "Cab swap".  When that's disabled, the bell and horn will be active on the west leader in the consist, but when it's enabled, the bell and horn controls will apply to the east leader instead.  If Reverser Swap could also act upon the setting of F5, then you could swap ends with a single press of a button. 

At first I was concerned that guest operators may become confused by the use of such a function, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.  One more step away from the "model railroady" and toward the prototype.   It could also allow me to correct other issues.  For example, today, I use the "Headlights Front" switch to control the west (right) leader in a consist, while the Headlights Rear controls the east (left) leader.  If Reverser swap could be made dependent on F5, I could then change my headlights so they were as well, as they were on my CVP throttles.  So Headlights Front would always control the leader regardless of direction.  The IAIS didn't run any single unit trains during the month I model, so I don't even have rear headlights or ditch lights in any of my power.  That "Headlights Rear" switch isn't going to get any love at all!

Just when I think I'm done doing "whole roster" Lokprogrammer updates!   I wish there was a way apply Lokprogrammer changes on the main. 

Great videos

Thanks for taking the time to make these videos and give your feedback, Joe! Definitely adding more reasons for me to invest in a PT.

Mike in CO

Reverser swap

It will be several months before my PT arrives for setup and testing, but reverser swap advantages would seem limited.  Two examples come to mind quickly:

The first is for non-linear layouts where the train changes direction of motion without reversing, i.e., it continues in the forward direction while going both left and right with respect to the engineer.

The other would be proto simulation, where the functioning of the engine controls is always the same regardless of the compass direction that the engine is traveling.  In this case, moving the reverser to the right will always create forward motion regardless of whether the leading or trailing engine in an NCE advanced consist is selected.

My apologies in advance if the inherent assumptions are not correct.

CVs

Hi Joe,

Yes, I have CV4 maxed out at 255 on my decoders. I believe CV179 is at its default value. I'm not sure. Whatever it is, it works fine for me. They don't stop on a dime, but neither does the prototype. Haha!

I won't speak for Tom Klimoski who has ran with it on my layout, but from what I could tell it didn't take him long to pick it up. My buddy Nathan who is a conductor on NS loved it and took to it perfectly fine. He always tells me he can't wait to come back for another operating session. 

I find setting CV3 to about 125 is pretty close to accurate for second generation EMD units. The real things have about a three second delay before they will move once you move the throttle out of idle. Older GE units are another story. They take about five seconds before they will move. Sometimes that feels like an eternity!

Tim

Mike and Tim

My pleasure Mike!  I'm glad they were helpful.

Thanks for the details on your CV settings Mike.  I think the default on CV179 is 40, so that must be where you are now.

Regarding CV3, something I've noticed with that set lower is not so much about how quickly a consist starts, but how smoothly.  With CV3 set lower, it seems like many of my Atlas and Kato unit have a bit of a lurch at the start, like they're moving straight from 0 to 2 with no transition in between.  With it set higher, it seems like there's a nice ramp-up in speed that makes for smoother starts and gives a better impression of the mass that that prime mover is working to get underway.

@Joe

Joe, take a look at page 18 of the unofficial decoder manual.  Section 8.9.2 talks about motor control. They talk about the three CVs that control motor feedback, The settings for the first couple of speed steps are controllable to avoid a jerky start. I don’t know if that’s your issue. And the manual isn’t crystal clear. I have to read it 3 or 4 times every time I think I need to reference that section.

GS

Reverser Swap

Just to clarify the operation of the reverser swap function of the ProtoThrottle.  There's nothing magical going on behind the scenes - it's pretty simple.

By default, pushing the reverser on the PT to the right causes the PT to send a "forward" speed/direction request to the command station.  Left = "reverse".

If you enable the reverser swap in the preferences, then those directions are simply swapped.  Left = "forward" speed/direction, right = "reverse" speed/direction.

That's it.  This feature originally came about at the request of JoeF.  He wanted the reverser position to match the direction of travel on the TOMA layout at Trainfest to make it easier on first time users.  The locomotive we were using was facing "left".  At that time, Joe set bit 0 of CV29 in the decoder to accomplish what he wanted.  The reverser swap function of the PT effectively does just that, though, without needing to reprogram the locomotive decoder itself.

There are some other, more prototypical use cases, too, as outlined in the comments above.

Michael

Why not available in Europe?

Hi,

Don’t know if this the proper place for the following question, but does anyone know ProtoThrottle isn’t available for sale to the European market?

If it is running on the same band as eg NCE wireless cabs, that band was made open a couple of year ago. Although the modulation may cause some additional limitations, which can prohibit selling the production within the EU, it would be illegal to own and use for a private person.

Thank, Andreas

Europe

Go-Fund-Me?

It might be interesting to try a Go-Fund-Me after this has been out in the USA for a year or two. Once you see how well it does in the USA, you could probably make a good educated guess of European interest. The Go-Fund-Me could give those who donate beyond a certain amount in US dollars a free throttle IF the funding reaches its goal needed to pay for compliance testing.

If it failed to generate the needed funds, then the guys across the pond would just need to go look into the mirror as to why it failed.

Asked and Answered