other steam wishes

For the hobby's sake I would also love to see 4-6-0. 2-8-0 and 2-8-2 types for the SP, UP, GN, NP, C&NW, B&O, C&O, ACL, SAL, SOU, and just about all RRs. My interest is on behalf of the small layout guys. We do not need nor can we use big fancy steam locomotives. Typically they won't work on small layouts. We need 4-6-0. 2-8-0, and 2-8-2 types.

Would you . . . ?

Would you consider modeling in an earlier era (steam era) if there were smaller steam locomotives like 4-6-0, 2-8-0, and 2-8-2 types representing your favorite railroads? I worry about all of the small layout model railroaders who IMO make up the majority of model railroaders or potential railroaders. We are pretty much stuck with the Pennsy since BLI and others have produced som many PRR steam locomotives. I am fortunate since I love the Pennsy, but what about you B&O, IC, C&NW, ACL, and the other great railroads?

S scale

I would like to see 4-4-0, 4-6-0, 0-4-0T, 0-6-0, 2-6-0, 2-8-0 in something less expensive than brass with DCC and sound.  All in S scale.

Paul

Steam Modeling and Era

Jim, I wouldn't change my era very far from 1964 (maybe to the 50s), but I'd put my priorities on a steam powered shortline.

I already have several steam locos:  a few of the Bachmann 2-8-0s, and a half dozen (older generation) brass locos, all 2-8-0 or smaller.  Problem is finding time to equip the fleet with sound decoders, and in the case of the brass locos, re-motoring and (possibly) re-gearing them.  My approach is to start with a diesel roster (all early Alcos), which I already have.  Getting this fleet up and running will be much easier and faster.  Eventually, when the layout is something closer to "finished", I'll likely embark on the steamer project with the ultimate plan of replacing most, if not all, of the diesels with steamers.  I will already have steam facilities modeled on the layout (water tanks, coaling facilities, etc.).  They will simply be "retired" structures initially while the diesels handle the chores.

I would also like to see an expansion of small steam locos.  I'd add even more arrangements to the list: 2-6-0 (thinking of those beautiful SP Moguls), 4-4-2 and light 4-6-2 for passenger service, and even some 2-6-2s.  I know that Bachmann has done a few of these (some may still be available), but I'd only be interested in something more akin to their Spectrum series with it's higher detailing.

And of course, I'd like to see them already equipped with sound decoders and speakers (I'm a LokSound fan, but wouldn't get upset if they had Tsunamis).

I read once that producing a small steamer isn't much cheaper than doing a very large one.  I hope that isn't the reason why we don't see more smaller locos.

I would also add that they

I would also add that they need to be able to pull with out traction tires! Even if this entails powering the tender wheels as well as the locomotive wheels. One way to disguise the drive shaft to the tender would be to make it look like the auger that feeds coal to the boiler. If a separate motor is needed and decoder have them set up so they can be speed matched easily.

One thing I am thinking of doing is adding an auxiliary tender like the one below.

If I add a diesel drive inside it might be enough to get plenty of power out of the 2-8-2s. The kit comes with the side frames so it might be possible to find a locomotive truck that fits and add enough weight to make the steamers pull like the prototypes.

I know of a modeler who did this in N scale in the past as he liked steam engines but they would not pull enough cars to be of use on his layout. In his case he made a mold and stretched the tender length to match existing diesel drives and had two powered tenders behind his locomotives.

I suspect for me one per 2-8-2 should be enough to insure good power and operation. For combos like this the older style decoders could be used so as to keep costs in line.

The only issue I see with the smaller steam locos is the lack of tractive effort that does not compare with the old diecast locomotives. Those things would really pull.

Katy Steam

I'd like to see MKT 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s. If those were produced, I'd consider leaving the diesel era and model the Northwest Branch in Oklahoma in the 1940s.  I've seen a few in brass, but I don't think my experience level or budget would support diving into a prototype that is so reliant on brass.

Domes

Jim, what I wish the manufacturers would do is leave the steam and sand domes off the boiler castings. The only 2-8-0 models that come close to one class of my Soo Line prototypes are the old, out of production,  MDC/Roundhouse Harriman style models. Current products need considerable modifications to look right for me. 

The Bachmann 2-8-0 could be used to represent a different class, but when the domes are removed from the plastic boiler shell, it leaves huge holes in the shell to be filled in before installing the right size domes in the proper location.

I have the same problem with my Soo Line light Pacific type locomotives,  most manufacturers use the same boiler shell as a light Mikado on the Pacific which are too large in diameter and have the domes in the wrong place for my prototype. 

There is definitely a lack of models in the 2-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0, 2-6-2, and even 4-6-2 styles, and what little can be found is either way off, like the old IHC 2-8-0 with a boiler shell that is for an 0-8-0 switch engine that has been used by Tyco, IHC and Life Like Proto, the inaccurate Bachmann models, and the extremely generic 2-8-0's from Bachmann and now B.L.I.

As I recall it was pretty much the same in the 1970's and 1980's with the very generic Mantua models, limited Bowser USRA and Pennsylvania RR designs, and the very poorly built Bachmann junk. The recent very brief run of the Roundhouse old time 2-8-0 was refreshing, but its time was very limited. I doubt the manufacturers will build much more than the USRA style of steam locomotives anytime soon, so we will be stuck scratch building or kit bashing to get the models we want on our layouts. Jim

Small Steam

This came up recently, perhaps on a different forum, but there doesn't seem to be a 57" driver 2-8-0 available.  The Bachmann 2-8-0 has 62" drivers, and the Roundhouse Old Timer has 52" drivers.  Most connies had 57" drivers, such as the Harriman locos, so there's a need for one.

4-6-0, 2-6-0 could always use more.  Sometimes I wonder if 3D printing will make different boilers and domes available that will fit on Bachmann mechanisms, for example.

It's good to be Canadian

Rapido announced a while back that they were doing an Icons of Canadian Steam project. Their first loco to be none other than the world famous Royal Hudson. There have been brass versions of the Royal Hudson, by Tenshodo in the 60s and Van Hobbies in the 70s. Both suffered from poor running characteristics. My dad had a Van Hobbies version and it just never ran well so he sold it. We like to run our locos, not have shelf queens.

Rapido has put tremendous effort into making a state of the art steam locomotive that will run as good as it looks. We are close to having the Royal Hudson in our hands! See the Rapido website for the other Canadian Steam locos they have planned. 

https://rapidotrains.com/category/icons-of-canadian-steam/

SOU 1380 & Little River 148

Southern PS-4 1380 (Streamlined to pull the Tennessean): A nice brass version has been done, but I would like to see a version that pulls better.

Little River 148 2-4-4-2: Versions of LRRR 126 (aka "Skookum" on the Columbia River Belt Line Railway, Carlisle Lumber Company and Deep River Logging.) have been manufactured, but 126 did not run well on the LRRR and was returned to Baldwin and replaced with 148.

LRRR 126

LRRR 148 ran successfully on LRRR until scrapped in 1940.

148 in Elkmont which is now a campground in Great Smokey Mountains National Park.

small steam

I'll be really surprised if a proper GN steam locomotive shows up. especially in the wheel arrangements ya'll are talking about. There are a few made but they are brass. Most of the GN's steamers were ordered with Belpaire fireboxes. Only four classes did not have that traditional firebox.

(The class O-3 #3200-3208, radial stay boilers, 2-8-2, Mikado). 

(The class P-2 #2500-2527, radial stay boilers, 4-8-2, Mountain).

(The class S-2 #2578-2588, radial stay boilers, 4-8-4, Northern).

(The class Z-6 #4000-4001, radial stay boilers, 4-6-6-4,. Challenger). sold back to the SP&S in 1946 & 1950.

Even the 0-6-0's were built with the Belpaire firebox. These were also hand fired. (No augers).

I doubt the manufacturers will retool their equipment to include this feature. Or someone needs to design an add-on from shapeways for the Belpaire. That's about the only way, I can see acquiring a proper GN steamer. Unless of course you can find one in brass for a good price. The three tenshodo (brass) pieces were well priced when I got them. O-8 $125.00,  S-1 $150.00, R-1 613.00 (price now nothing below $1,000.00 for the R's).

Good luck guys.

Charlie

Ten-wheeler

I'd love to see a Blackstone

I'd love to see a Blackstone type quality plastic super detailed two truck shay in HOn3 finally!

DCC with sound?

Yes please, while they're at it could they make it affordable too? Maybe under $600 MSRP with a street price around $475-525 I'd be a happy engineer.

I model the Gilpin/Colorado & Southern 1890-1900 era, so that would be perfect for me, heck I'd even consider putting a HOn3 Climax along the same lines in the mix too.

More small steam!

My steam wish list? I wish that manufacturers would finally get away from large and generally layout-inappropriate "collectors steam", and would support us by giving us quality SMALL steam that we can actually use. Bachmann's actually doing this, but BLI generally doesn't, and neither does Athearn. 

We need more steam switcher options (OOP Proto 2000 engines are nice, but are OOP), more Ten Wheelers, more Consolidations, and more Mikados. Manufacturers need to start ignoring the USRA and every railroad's Northerns and give us decent steam that will actually look and run well on an average-sized layout.

Here's a good start: North Freedom is finally restoring C&NW 1385, and SRI just bought C&NW 175. The R class Ten Wheelers were everywhere in the central Midwest, there were a lot of them, they ran into the late 1950s, look a lot like many other railroad's 4-6-0s, documentation for the engines is readily available, and 1385 is fondly remembered for its excursion service in the 1980s and 1990s.

I'm not even a C&NW modeler but would buy several of these to modify for my fleet.

More small steam!

I am with Ray. We need a lot more small steam engines so that the majority of the hobby who has small to medium layouts can operate with steam locomotives. As Ray pointed out, the manufacturers have catered to the collectors who want large steam locomotives. We "typical" layout operators need small steam.

I have been asking for small

I have been asking for small steam since I got back into the hobby in 2007.  2-8-0s, 2-8-2s, 4-6-2s.  And I don't understand why the manufacturers don't take a page from the military model manufacturers and add in a sprue of extra detail parts to allow you to build your engine to cover all phases of it's service life or even how it looked on a couple different railroads. 

Bachmann's excellent little Baldwin 2-8-0 was copied from the engines sold to the Illinois Central in 1909.  One sprue of detail parts would allow you to model that engine as delivered and after rebuilding in the 1940s at the IC shops in Paducah. You would need two new sand domes a set of air pumps to mount on the pilot and a new pilot. With that one sprue you could have a reasonable representation of the engine as delivered in 1909 to the retirement of the last one in 1960.  Of course you'd still have to deal with the generic tender but that would be a start. But Bachmann won't even paint and letter the engine for the IC.

Where are the straight boilers?  Not every steam locomotive had a USRA shaped boiler.  How about different valve gear?

The manufacturers  are taking care of the modern era diesel modelers.  You can buy all kinds of GP and SD units with road specific details.

What are they giving us steam and transition era modelers?  UP Big Boys and Gas Turbines.  If the transition era is indeed still the most popular era to model, why are we either running foobie steam engines or spending a lot of money and time to kitbash the foobies into engines that are a reasonable facsimile of the engines we need?

Jeff White

Alma, IL

Reading G3

Very awesome looking steam locomotive. Ultimate (maybe the last) Pacific built for U.S. service.

On a more generic note, if Rapido does the full array of their Icons of Steam series, there will be some nice generic Canadian offerings. Looking forward to seeing those done.

I agree Jeff, but sadly the

I agree Jeff, but sadly the market doesn't. Sad to say, but far too few people in this hobby are anything more than box-openers. HO scale is now as RTR as O or N, simply because people don't want to build. In forums like these we tend to associate with like-minded people who share our love of actually doing some modeling, but that's not the majority of the hobby at large. That's why companies like Bowser, Roundhouse, Mantua and Arbour are no longer around, or no longer offering steam kits.

It doesn't help that manufacturers tend to not actually understand the prototypes they're making. Manufacturers generally don't understand steam at ALL, which is why they focus on either giant (and rare) prototypes or on the USRA engines (generic). BLI offered a freelanced Consolidation, for Pete's sake. When's the last time we saw a freelanced diesel model?

They also tend not to understand manufacturing all that well. If, for example, you decide to produce something generic but appropriate, like a Harriman medium 2-8-2, you have two options: model ONE as-built engine, which is OK for one or two railroads for the first 10 years of the engine's life, or you could fire up decent CAD artists and CnC machines, and produce a huge array of prototype-specific engines (just over 1,000 examples) to cover the engine's 45 years of service. Besides a couple of efforts by Bachmann no modern steam manufacturer has tried the latter. But gee, we still get a new F-unit model with proto-specific doo-dads every other year.

Ray, The frustrating thing is

Ray,

The frustrating thing is that with proper design of the detail sprues you could make these engines no more complicated to modify then a shake the box kit. 

Jeff White

Alma, IL

chicken or the egg

I see the situation as like which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Manufacturers see all the diesel modelers while seeing fewer steam modeler, so they offer more and more diesels. However, without them offering more and more steam locomotives how can anyone expect there to be more steam modelers. You can't.

I also believe that the squeaky wheel is the one that gets the grease. I started this thread and my "Modeling 1900-1940" thread in order to make some noise. The more this happens and the more we keep it going and spread it around, the greater the chance that manufacturers will take note. If we don't, I assure you that they will not.

It would be nice to see a

It would be nice to see a 2-8-0 with an uneven spacing on the drivers.

And it would be great if the domes and stack and can could come off.  

-Doug Meyer

MDC once made Harriman (SP,

MDC once made Harriman (SP, UP, IC) 4-6-0, 4-4-2 ,2-8-0 die cast and plastic kits.  New kits would be wonderful.  The valve gear was simple Stevenson (I believe). A new version would need plastic boilers with all detail added on. The drivers would need to be new and a frame that would accommodate DCC and DC electronics would be required. Coal/Oil convertable rectangular tenders and new medium Vanderbilt tenders would be wonderful and even more wonderful a straight boilered 2-8-0 and whale back tender for the legendary of oft dreamed of SP C-9. 

And a 2-6-0 (for an SP M6?) also would be wonderful. These were all Baldwin boilers. They do need variable positioning of the domes. Slanted cylinders were also a hallmark. A sprue with many boiler appliance options would be excellent.

Ken Adams

Anything affordable in Sn3

Blackstone listening? Any 2-6-0, 4-6-0, or 2-8-0 with sound around $500 would be a blessing. Outside frames and choice of dome configuration would be icing. Non-sound sans DCC brass is way too expensive. More affordable Sn3 locomotives might draw a lot of On30 guys to this scale/gage. 

Ray, The frustrating thing is

Ray, The frustrating thing is that with proper design of the detail sprues you could make these engines no more complicated to modify then a shake the box kit. Jeff White

That's my point about proper engineering and CnC work. Build the base frame, drive and boiler for a "common" engine like a Harriman Mike, and that's about 80% of your total tooling and design investment. Two cabs, three or four tenders (two frames and common electronics), and between six to eight detail sprues, and you now have enough material to build models of pretty much EVERY owner of the second most common Mikado ever built.

These, of course, would be RTR models. I've heard far too many old timers complain about BB kits being "too hard" to build, and kits plain old don't sell because that's 90% of the hobby these days. Steam kits are a dead end street in the American market.