Interesting Prototype!

Sounds like an interesting prototype! I look forward to seeing this unfold.

I don't know much about two level layouts.. but it does seem like you may want a plan for building that in before building the first level?

Chris

Second level on layout

I do have way of putting in the second level. It shouldn't be a problem since the layout goes around three walls of the train room. One side can be fastened to the studs will the other can be supported either by some kind of cantilever if they aren't wider than 18 inches. If they are wider than 18 inches a leg can be attached to section below. It may block some of the view but if it's camouflaged in some way (i.e a window view) no one will realize what it is (at least not right away. For the free standing parts I'll have to have some sort of support wall in place. That I haven't totally figured out yet.

Irv

Hells Gate Bridge

Now that ought to be interesting to model - you'll have to see how many people have a "Lionel moment" when they see it.

Lionel Moment?

I doubt it because what they'll be seeing is N Scale.

Irv

Lionel Hells Gate Bridge

... is one of the more highly prized accessories for collectors, as I understand it. So it's a semi-familiar shape to people who've seen tinplate.

Lionel Hell's Gate Bridge

I didn't even know it existed. I am going to see if I can find something similar in N-Scale because the thought of scratch building it is a bit daunting at this point. Especially when you consider the real one has 4 tracks on it. I seem to recall there was something that looked close to it put out by one of the European manufacturers. I just don't know how close it is to the the real thing.

Irv

Good photo of several of the bridges

Yes, it's indeed an impressive bridge - this webpage is of a layout that has three of them.

which hell's gate bridge

There are a bunch of bridges in the US named hell's gate.  Which one are we talking out here?

Hell Gate Bridge in New York

As far as I've known, there is only one Hell Gate Bridge - it's the one used for the Lionel model between New York and the rest of New England over the East River (photos from http://www.oldnyc.com/bayridge/hellgate/hellgate.html):

Now the question is, will Irv model the Randall's Island Viaduct or the Long Island Viaduct at the ends of the bridge:

Yikes!

Will I model the viaducts?

Good question. I will let you know when I come up with an answer.

At this point I am thing more about getting as much of the benchwork finsihed to the point where I can lay some track and get something running. Of course I'll have to see what I have room for on the bottom lavel and then what I could with a second level (with or without a helix of some sort.) Only then will I have an answer to your question. I will probably have to use cast plaster for any kind of believable viaduct.

Of course this isn't the only place where I might have to create stuff. I just read about a bridge that the railroad built to cross Queens Blvd. I've seen that bridge many times and it isn't all that far from home. So going there for some photos isn't much of a problem. Parking near there is a problem of course since that part of Queens Blvd goes form 3 lanes to two on the main roadway and from two lanes to one on the side roads.

Irv

I think American bridge

I think American bridge builders or the people that name things had a very short imagination - I've seen or heard of so many bridges called "hell gate" or "hells gate" not to mention Canyons of the same name that the effect losses meaning after a while.  It becomes plain the people had no sense out here in Arizona because we named our stuff things like Rattlesnake Creek, Burro Creek, Jackrabbit Arroyo, and any variation of whatever happened to walk out of the feature whent he people were naming it.  If it has a wierd name, it's becasue someone died in it or owned it, such as "Moore's Gulch."  the spanish before us didn't have a whole lot of imagination either, prefering to simply call the rivers "Colorado" or "Grande" or "Agua Fria."  And then we have the Black Mountains and the White Mountains to join our Black Canyon, Mesa Verde, Red Mesa, Table Mesa, and White Horse Lake.  Oye Vey!!

Now when we added in the Spanish language to our English naming conventions, we suddenly became even more creative.  In Tucson we have a road named 'Camino de la Tierra" which sounds really really cool until it hits you...we named a road "DIRT ROAD!!!???"

When you say 'hellgate" I'm thinking of a bridge of small proportions north of Paulden Arizona on the Peavine Route.  It crosses a canyon with a very similar name too.

Thanks for the pictures.  The Lionel version looks very nice!  A little hacking and it might work?  I only say this as it seems the Lionel stuff is grosly overscaled in proportion!

Naming things

I understand what you are saying but the name Hell Gate goes back to the original Dutch settlers of the New York City area. Hell Gate is a narrow tidal passage complicated by lots of underwater caves and other geological features which make the waters very treacherous even for modern tugboats and the barges, ships and other watercraft that they are attached to. The tides have the effect of pushing large quantities of water thru very narrow passages several times a day and thus create very rough water that in some places can make rafting down the Colorado River look like a fun day on the calmest lake. So, in this case, Hell Gate is a very apt name. BTW, American Bridge didn't name the bridge it built Hell Gate. THe New York Connecting Railroads owners, the Pennsylvania and New Haven Railroads, did. And they simply called the bridge what that area had already been named by the Dutch.

Irv